
Sunwarrior |
Hi people.
So i have some minor experience with a cleric.
After quite some time we decided to start a new campaign with our group.
Now from what i heard we will most likely be doing Carrion Crown.
So far the chosen classes are all DPS classes like Rogue and Sorceress. One guy will most likely go Paladin to hold off the big hitters.
Now what i was thinking is going Half elf/Human Cleric so i can function as general support. Take some hits for our fragile spellcasters, offtank where needed and sling some healing spells were needed. I just love that role.
We will be starting with 15 AB scores i believe.
So what i was thinking.
God Sarenrae Glory/Sun domains. That way (in my head) i can kick some serious a.. with my channels, heal and protect my teammates and be a bane to the undead creatures there.
Now. From the small amount of research i have done i saw that Iomedae might be the better choice. Even though these domains can be chosen with Sarenrae. But my choices might be better protected by going Neutral Good instead of Lawful good as my personality might let some shady actions slide for the greater good.
As for the traits i get to choose i was thinking the +2 against fear rolls campaign trait (we must choose a campaign trait) and one from the books. But there are so many that i cant choose.
As for the feat (or maybe 2 feats in case of human)
Toughness
Or a channel feat, dunno which yet, selective maybe?
Now with this in mind. Any advice for me? Small spoilers are ok, but please no big spoilers :P

Zourin |

As long as your GM isn't an alignment nazi, you shouldn't have a problem being LG.
You can be LG without being a jerk about it, you just prefer doing the right thing through the right channels (gov't/religion) if given the choice. You know full well you don't always have that choice when with a party, but it doesn't change how you feel about the matter and it doesn't change the limits at where you would and should balk (outright evil or tremendously illegal). LG's can get dragged into shennanigans just as easily as chaotic characters get dragged into adventures on behalf of authority figures.

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Assimar have a really nifty Favored Class bonus that helps keep maximized Channel Energy relevant, though I should point out that there may not be as much undead as you'd expect.
My understanding is that the AP significantly changes after part one, so don't use early play as a guide on what to build towards.
But, keep in mind that Channeling, even maxed out, just doesn't keep up well at all, for either healing or harming.
The Evangilist Archetype might be worth looking into, especially early on.
I highly recommend talking with the other players, especially the Rogue and Sorcerer, and dividing up your Knowledge skills to work best. You take History & Religion, Sorcerer takes Arcana, Nature, and one or two others, and the Rogue takes what's left (or something like that).
Dividing between Diplomacy, Heal, History, Religion, and Sense Motive, (and hopefully Perception) should have you spread pretty thin on skills, which kind of sucks for the Cleric that kind of needs more points to do their basic job description.
Most of the Campaign Traits, in my opinion, where very bad, so hopefully your DM is giving you a free one that has to be one of those, but if not, oh well.
Affable might be a great option. Blessed Touch, Birthmark, Exalted of the Society, and Fey Fondling are my goto Cleric Traits.
If you do go with Iomedae, Chosen of Iomedae and Divine Warrior can work pretty well for a +1 free damage plus always useful Light source, though you might need Extra Traits Feat.

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To be quite frank at early levels, you are better off going support cleric and selective channeling is indeed a must have feat, as positioning is often never ideal in the middle of combat. Even less so in AP with some encounters being ambushes and the likes.
The only advice that I would give, just be a walking tank, get a heavy steel shield as soon as you can, a breastplate, a morningstar or the favored weapon of your god. Divine favor is honestly one of the best spell you can cast at lower level and even into higher levels for a very long time, as it would just give you enough attack rolls and damage to fight in melee range with fighters etc...and heal them when they need to.
Only issue at lower levels if you want to do a battle cleric, you need to spend time buffing, which usually in my experience, the fight will be over before you are done buffing yourself in combat.
At higher level, you get a vast amount of options for spells, the most effective way is to go with the Sacred Summon feat, so you can cast summon monsters as a standard action of one step of your alignment. Still tho you aren't limited to just summoning monsters and healing, as everyday you can switch up your spell list and even make battle cleric with just the list of spells that you have.

Sunwarrior |
Hmmk,
thanks so far.
I also forgot to say that this will be my second AP. I do not have that much PF experience.
What i generaly just want to do is be where needed.
So yeah support role. My choices are not definitive yet. I still have about a month or 2 or so.
Now i do think Glory/Sun might still be good domains for this AP even if there might not be as much undead. Or am i in the wrong here?
If you were to partake in this adventure as a cleric. What would you take and why?
Im sure there will be a lot of evil creatures on this AP.
So yeah, there are just way to much options now :P

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I would suggest taking either healing/sun or healing/fire. The bonus at later levels to your cure spells is good, as well as the rebuke death ability to heal downed party members. It's a toss up with either the sun or fire domains, it's kind of a preference and flexibility call on that one. That's my 2cp opinion.

RegUS PatOff |

Sounds like you've got a core four person team which should work well as this AP, like most, is built expecting this type of mix.
Have you looked at any of the class guides or build guides? Also check out the guides discussion thread.
I'm a fan of the reach cleric. Basic concept is you use your standard action to cast or channel, and take advantage of reach to get effective hits from AoEs on your opponent's turn. Not as effective mixed with summons, but good for offensive, control and buff casting.
You can also do some interestings things with variant channeling, but it's a tough build to pull off & can wind up being very sub-optimal if you don't put incredible focus into it - which restricts other options in which you might want to invest. Of note, the variant channel control options are restricted to specific domains which can be hard to get, depending on specific gods.

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Enjoy your Cleric! It sounds like you are building a default-style Support Cleric, which is a fine approach. Do be aware there are other ways to play a cleric, and that there is so much variation between types that they may play like a different class.
Like Regus above, my favorite type of cleric is the Reach Cleric. The Reach Cleric Guide will steer you towards building an optimized hyper-martial reach cleric, but that's not the only way to do it. For example, the Iconic cleric Kyra is a traditional support cleric in every way: feats Selective Channel & Toughness, domains Sun & Healing. Yet when I play Kyra at level one I often buy her a longspear (5 gp Simple weapon) and play her with reach tactics. This makes her a reach cleric. The result is that she is much more combat effective: she inflicts about 2x more damage, she takes less damage, and she is better able to cast spells in combat. I've found that the defensive benefit of using a reach weapon (which is tactical, and thus nowhere mentioned in any rule book!) is far greater than the defensive value of a shield. So one need not invest heavily in this play style, one just needs to make a 5 gp purchase and use smart tactics. Something to think about.
Regardless of how you build & play your cleric, I have some unsolicited advice: don't get trapped in the healbot role. In particular, never allow your allies to think of you as a 'healing appliance'. This is a waste of the Cleric's talents, and is quite non-optimal for your allies, too, although they may not know it.
Problems the Cleric has when cast as a Healbot:
* Not everyone likes healing every round. Personally I like healing, so it took me a while to learn this lesson.
* Even if you do like it, you usually have more effective actions
* Once cast as a healbot the other players tend to see see your character less as an active participant and more as a Bandaid
Problems the Cleric's Team has when they treat the Cleric as a Healbot:
* Allies assume the cleric will be there to heal their owies, so they are less careful to avoid taking damage. E.g. People do stupid stuff when they have that safety net. This leads to an unpleasant feedback loop, where PCs use stupid tactics where they take lots of damage, because they have learned they can get away with it. The epitome of this is the warrior who always rushes the foe, without considering the tactical situation, then calls for healing when they get in trouble. When my Cleric must work with such a loose-cannon 'ally' I've found it works best to first warn them not to be a fool, and then to sometimes let them fail, because it's the only way they will ever learn.
* The team misses out on the other powerful stuff the Cleric could be doing. For example, because your allies were idiots who took a lot of needless damage they then rely on you to heal, you were not able to cast spells that would have helped the party easily win the fight without getting hurt. E.g. Communal Resist Energy, Command, Summon Monster, etc.
* Parties that rely on a healbot rarely use damage mitigation strategies. Yet the most efficient way to heal is to prevent the damage in the first place. For example, a Summon Monster spell absorbs damage so your allies don't, and does not require healing. For another example, a PC using smart reach tactics will mostly avoid taking Full Attacks, which reduces incoming damage. For a third example, Bardsong (Inspire Courage, available to the Evangelist cleric archetype) raises the damage output of the entire team, which kills things faster and thus reduces incoming damage.
Another bit of unsolicited advice:
* Don't waste time buffing yourself in combat. Generally not worth it. If you are spending your first two combat rounds buffing yourself then you are doing it wrong. Try to get off your longer duration (e.g. minute-per-level) buff spells before the fight starts. If this is not working it generally indicates that your party scout is not doing their job.
Here are the Nine Commandments of Playing a Cleric. These are totally worth understanding, as they will greatly increase your effectiveness and fun playing a cleric.

Sunwarrior |
All very good advice. Thanks people :) I might just go reach ;P
The thing is. I realy like Sarenrae/Iomedae
Now..
I have finished my background story. The GM and friends realy liked it :)
I have decided to go human. We start with a 20 PB, not 15 as rumoured.
I am thinking
Str 12 Need to do some physical damage sometimes.
Dex 12 Dunno why realy. But felt like taking points into this
Con 12 Need to be able to take some blows no?
Int 12 The +1 on skills i need
Wis 15 High for spells and spell bonus
Cha 14 For channels
Quite balanced as i dont feel that confident dropping a stat below 10. But any advice with a good argument as to why take an other build will be taken with gratitude :)
Im still stuck between Glory, Good and sun domains. I dont feel like dropping Good (because of the domain spells) but Glory and Sun work very well with channeling and against most undead and have some nice domain spells.
Even though my character's background is highly anti-undead focussed i do want some use besides swinging my weapon and healing when we encounter something that aint undead.
Also i am stuck with my second feat and 2nd trait.
I want to take Iron will. +2 will save. I realy expect to be needing this in this AP.
For the trait im thinking Chance savior AP trait. +2 initiative or Teachers pet +2 to a knowledge skill and make it a class skill.
Any advice on this? Am i working towards something goodish here?
Super Powerplay wont be tolerated as the GM will up the difficulty of encounters when we start to do this :P

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Take heed to Luckbenders advice.
I personally would avoid relying on channeling and just keep it a 10 cha or less. If you really want to be channel focused I would go with the Oracle of Life. They do it much much better than a cleric. If you want to pick up some martial ability paired with channeling then I recommend a Oradin build. You will have tons of undead killing potential paired with crazy amounts of healing. Use reach tactics and you will be a lot in combat. Plus your saves will be really nice.
As far as trait suggestions I recommend Birthmark. Place the tattoo on the back of your hand and you never have to worry about a holy symbol again. +2 trait bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects. Is a nice tag along as well since you seemed worried about will saves. For the AP traits. Making Good on Promises offers a +2 against fear saves. If you're concerned with your will saves then this is another bump to your will saves. If your not so concerned about your saves then +2 to initiative is the trait to pick up.

RegUS PatOff |

If you're going human, with 20 point buy, I'd suggest a somewhat different set of stats:
STR 16: +5 pts (14 plus human +2 bonus)
DEX 14: +5 pts (assumes reach focused cleric)
CON 13: +3 pts
INT 09: -1 pt
WIS 13: +3 pts
CHA 14: +5 pts
Level 4 boost Wisdom, then Constitution at 8th. Plan to pick up stat boosting items, especially as you'll need higher Wisdom for access to higher level spells. For 12th & 16th boost Wisdom again.
You get 2 plus INT bonus skills per level, which translates to 2/level when you subtract your -1 for INT 9, and add back the human skill point bonus. This can be a little light, but it gives you a character that can (1) cast, (2) channel, and (3) get AoOs on opponents' turns using a reach weapon. You also could shift your level 8 stat increase from CON to INT and pick up 8 skill points at that time by negating your penalty.

RegUS PatOff |

Also, thinking about the Oradin option, here's a slight rework I did of the Oradin mini-guide build suggested by Grarrrg on the Giant in the Playground forums.
This really worked well with a mixed group consisting of another Paladin (smite-heavy), a Sorcerer, and a Rogue/Ninja kind of character that was eventually swapped out for a two-weapon Ranger.
Race - Half-elf
Stats
STR 16 (14+2 race)
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 15
Half-elves receive Skill Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level - I like applying this to Perception
Half-elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks
Traits
You can channel energy 1 additional time a day
Whenever you receive magical healing, you heal an additional 2 points per die rolled. You gain a +2 bonus on all saving throws against death effects. Unfortunately, you also suffer +1 point of damage from cold iron weapons (although you can wield cold iron weapons without significant discomfort)
Alternate if Exalted of the Society is not available:
+1 bonus on all Will saves and a +1 bonus on all saving throws made against spells and effects originating from an outsider with the evil subtype
Lvl 01 Paladin 1 (Hospitaler)
HP 1d10+5 = 15
Elf Favored Class Option: Paladin: Add +1/2 hit point to the paladin's lay on hands ability (whether using it to heal or harm).
Aura of good, detect evil, smite evil 1/day
Feat: Toughness
Note: you're reducing your additional smite evils to +1 at 7th level, and +1 at 13th level in return for channel healing that doesn't cost lay on hands. This is central to the build - you're a heavy fighter with a few spells and a lot of swift action healing.
Lvl 02 Paladin 2
HP 2d10+7 = 17+1d10
Divine grace
Lay on Hands (1d6+3 self, 1D6+1 others)
Elf FCO +1/2 hp lay on hands
Lvl 03 Paladin 2/Oracle 1
HP 2d10+1d8+9 = 19+1d10+1d8
Life Mystery, Wolfscarred Face Curse
Orisons, Oracle Spells (Known: 0th x4, 1st x2; Cast: 1st 3+1/day)
Revelation: Channel (Su) Oracle Channel positive energy (1d6 +1 (2+Char mod)/day) - note: can switch out for life link
Elf FCO +1/2 Oracle level to effect of one Revelation (Channel)
Feat: Power Attack
Lvl 04 Paladin 2/Oracle 2
HP 2d10+2d8+12 = 22+1d10+2d8
Oracle Spells (Known: 0th x5, 1st x2; Cast: 1st 4+1/day)
Mystery Spell: Detect Undead
Oracle Channel positive energy (2d6 +2 (2+Char mod)/day)
Elf FCO +1/2 Oracle level to effect of one Revelation (Channel)
Lvl stat increase +1 Charisma
Lvl 05 Paladin 2/Oracle 3
HP 2d10+3d8+16 = 26+1d10+3d8
Oracle Spells (Known: 0th x5, 1st x3; Cast: 1st 5+1/day)
Oracle Channel positive energy (2d6 +2 (2+Char mod)/day)
Revelation: Life Link - Life Link (Su): create 3 bonds to allies. Each round, if bonded ally has 5+ hp damage, it heals 5 hp & you take 5 hp damage.
FCO +1 HP
Feat: Endurance
Note: You can switch out for Channel revelation taken at Oracle 1, but I like the Life Link at Oracle 3, because you've now got the HPs, Channel Energy's and lay on hands to really go to town using the 3 links.
Lvl 06 Paladin 2/Oracle 4
HP 2d10+4d8+19 = 29+1d10+4d8
Oracle Spells (Known: 0th x6, 1st x3, 2nd x1; Cast: 1st 6+1/day, 2nd 3+1/day)
Oracle Channel positive energy (3d6 +3 (2+Char mod)/day)
Mystery Spell: Lesser Restoration
Half-elf FCO +1 Oracle Spell (1st level)
Lvl 07 Paladin 3/Oracle 4
HP 3d10+4d8+22 = 32+2d10+4d8
Aura of courage
Divine health
Mercy #1 TBD
Lay on Hands (1d6+3 self, 1D6+1 others; possible extra self +1d6+2/other +1d6)
Oracle Channel positive energy (3d6 +3 (2+Char mod)/day)
Feat: Greater Mercy - When you use your lay on hands ability and the target of that ability does not have any conditions your mercies can remove, it instead heals an additional +1d6 points of damage
Elf FCO +1/2 hp lay on hands
Lvl 08 Paladin 4/Oracle 4
HP 4d10+4d8+25 = 35+3d10+4d8
Paladin Hospitaler Channel positive energy (1d6 +1 (3+Char mod)/day)
Oracle Channel positive energy (3d6 +3 (2+Char mod)/day)
Lay on Hands (2d6+6 self, 2D6+2 others; possible extra self +1d6+2/other +1d6)
+1 Strength (continues at 12th, 16th, 20th)
Elf FCO +1/2 hp lay on hands
Lvl 09 Paladin 5/Oracle 4
HP 5d10+4d8+28 = 38+4d10+4d8
Divine bond
Paladin Hospitaler Channel positive energy (1d6 +1 (3+Char mod)/day)
Oracle Channel positive energy (3d6 +3 (2+Char mod)/day)
Lay on Hands (2d6+6 self, 2D6+2 others; possible extra self +1d6+2/other +1d6)
Elf FCO +1/2 hp lay on hands
Feat: Die Hard
Lvl 10 Paladin 6/Oracle 4
HP 6d10+4d8+31 = 41+5d10+4d8
Paladin Hospitaler Channel positive energy (2d6 +2 (3+Char mod)/day)
Oracle Channel positive energy (3d6 +3 (2+Char mod)/day)
Lay on Hands (3d6+9 self, 3D6+3 others; possible extra self +1d6+2/other +1d6)
Elf FCO +1/2 hp lay on hands
Mercy #2 TBD
Future increases as Paladin
Wealth by level at 10th should be roughly 62,000 gp. So potential equipment investment could include:
Purchase at 4th/5th:
Headband of alluring charisma +2, 4,000 gp
Purchase at 6th/7th:
Belt of Physical Might +2 Str/Con, 10,000 gp
Purchase at 7th/8th/9th:
Cracked Pearly White Spindle Ioun Stone, 3,400 gp, Regenerate 1 point of damage per hour
Phylactery of the Shepherd, 7,000 gp, 3/day status on ally within 30', with option to swift action channel energy/lay on hands heal that ally.
Bracers of the Merciful Knight, 15,600 gp +4 paladin levels for lay on hands (+2/day, +2d6+4 self/+2d6 other)
or (strictly worse choice for similar price)
Bracelet of Mercy, 15,000 gp +1 lay on hands/day