Spirit Guide Oracle + Lore Spirit = Ridiculous spell access


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I can't seem to find much on these forums about the new Spirit Guide Oracle archetype. Which is a bit surprising when it seems so powerful. A Spirit Guide who starts with 13 Int and decent Cha can get a flexible ton of spells through the Lore Spirit hex Arcane Enlightenment.

If I read this right, from level 3 you can daily cherry-pick a number of wizard spells (any level) equal to your Charisma modifier to add to your list of spells known. You can change your choices daily by rechoosing your wandering spirit. The only limit seems to be that you need an Intended score of 10+spell level to cast these spells, but 13 Int and a Headband of Vast Intellect solves that.

Arcane Enlightenment balances out for Shamans, who as prepared casters aren't hugely restricted by spells known. For Oracles it's a different story, and adding half a dozen spells known to your highest castable level is massive, especially from the tasty goodness of the Wizard list.


Corvino wrote:

I can't seem to find much on these forums about the new Spirit Guide Oracle archetype. Which is a bit surprising when it seems so powerful. A Spirit Guide who starts with 13 Int and decent Cha can get a flexible ton of spells through the Lore Spirit hex Arcane Enlightenment.

If I read this right, from level 3 you can daily cherry-pick a number of wizard spells (any level) equal to your Charisma modifier to add to your list of spells known. You can change your choices daily by rechoosing your wandering spirit. The only limit seems to be that you need an Intended score of 10+spell level to cast these spells, but 13 Int and a Headband of Vast Intellect solves that.

Arcane Enlightenment balances out for Shamans, who as prepared casters aren't hugely restricted by spells known. For Oracles it's a different story, and adding half a dozen spells known to your highest castable level is massive, especially from the tasty goodness of the Wizard list.

It doesnt work. Arcane Enlightenment adds to the spells you can prepare. Oracles do not prepare spells so gain no benefit from the Hex.


That would make sense, andreww. I initially parsed it as "spells known" rather than "spells you can prepare". Even leaving that failed exploit aside it's still a ridiculously good archetype, adding a lot of flexibility to the Oracle's spell list.


Spirit Guide is an amazing archetype and would be an absolute must have if Dual Cursed didnt exist. I personally think it is better than Dual Cursed given the number of options it opens up.


Indeed, it's just about the only way to add flexibility to your spell list on a daily basis. Even if you just stick to one spirit you've still got the equivalent of an extra 50-60% of a "bonus mystery" over basic Oracles.


What I thought about when looking at that archetype was to build a life oracle that doesn't have the life mystery. In other words take another mystery and choose the life spirit. Doing that gives you a lot of the nice stuff from life + you get to take what ever you want from your real mystery.

You could, for example, build a nature oracle with Cha to AC and a companion, with the good stuff from the life spirit and some free blast spells known from the blackened curse.


It's worth noting that not all the Spirit Hexes are equivalent to the Mystery Revelations of the same names, Just a Guess. Life link initially looks similar but works differently.

Generally I agree though. Spirit guide seems to be a good way to add diversity and flexibility to an Oracle build. Pick your choice of main Mystery and mix it up from there.

Going back to Arcane Enlightenment though - looks like it could be useful for the other prepared spellcaster who can access it, the Witch. The Spirit Talker feat makes this possible, though MAD.


There was an FAQ some time ago saying adding spells known from other classes, like Iproved Eldritch Heritage(Arcane) doesn't work. You have to be able to add the spells to your class list too(like with Mystic Past Life).


andreww wrote:


It doesnt work. Arcane Enlightenment adds to the spells you can prepare. Oracles do not prepare spells so gain no benefit from the Hex.

That seems awfully nit picky. Any idea what the RAI on this is? If this doesn't work it kills a character I just started a campaign with. :(


Azten wrote:
There was an FAQ some time ago saying adding spells known from other classes, like Iproved Eldritch Heritage(Arcane) doesn't work. You have to be able to add the spells to your class list too(like with Mystic Past Life).

Any idea where that is? That was going to be my way to add dominate person to my oracle permanently instead of just when I used the Lore hex.


Here it is.


eakratz wrote:
Azten wrote:
There was an FAQ some time ago saying adding spells known from other classes, like Iproved Eldritch Heritage(Arcane) doesn't work. You have to be able to add the spells to your class list too(like with Mystic Past Life).
Any idea where that is? That was going to be my way to add dominate person to my oracle permanently instead of just when I used the Lore hex.

While I am very much not a fan of the FAQ, it is here. However, Azten is slightly (probably unintentionally) overstating the FAQ, as things that are class features that add spells to your spells known also add to your spell list. Why this distinction between "class features" and everything else? I don't know it doesn't make sense to me either. However, I also wish the wording for Lore Spirit's Arcane Enlightenment was broad enough allowed non-prepared casters to benefit.


Thanks guys. That FAQs real frikken annoying. I'm reading through the thread and it appears that they imp. Eldritch heratage is what they were aiming to nerf.

I think this post is the final nail in that coffin.


They were aiming to Nerf Paragon Surge being used to gain a different kind of Improved Eldritch Heritage(Arcane) to get a whole bunch of spells(through multiple castings of Paragon Surge) added to your list. They just never came out and said it, I think.


I don't think your character is dead. The archetype lets you use hexes from bonded spirits. It also says to make the necessary adjustments (Cha instead of Wis). Well, Arcane Enlightenment adds wizard spells to the shaman's spell list, so it will add them to the oracle's spell list the same way.
If it seems overpowered, remember that as a wondering hex it is overpowered for shamans too. Probably the best way to handle it is let the character gain always the same spells, instead of choosing them anew whenever she chooses that spirit.


Naw, the character will still be awesome and is fun fun to play. I was being hyperbolic. I spent quite a bit of time ensuring that she would have a 15 intelligence by the time she got 5th level spells so she could pick up Dominate Person through arcane enlightenment, and made her a half elf for the free skill focus to use IEH (arcane) to be able to always have it. If Only I envisioned her blue. Oh well, she will still get her parrot.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I'm gonna show my ignorance here...what book has this archetype? A board search on it was negative for me.


Advanced Class Guide.


It's from the Advanced Class Guide, along with the Shaman class.

*Edit* Beaten to the punch


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Good to know...thanks!

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