So I'm looking for a 1st level spell or two for a Sorcerer. But not just any one-- one she could feasibly want to cast every round of combat. Through various shenanigans-- Mythic and a minor dose of 3.5-- I've got her in a situation where she can cast up to six spells in a single round, but half of them have to be first-level and half fourth-level or lower. The latter situation I have covered, because that's a pretty broad range. The former is more difficult, and I'm having trouble deciding which spells she should pick up. She's Crossblooded, so she only ever gets four first-level spells+bloodline spell, and I'd like at least two to fall into the "use constantly" plan. Right now I'm looking at:
True Strike
Shocking Grasp
Protection From Evil
Identify (Bloodline)
The character is gestalt with Magus on the other side, and I have more shenanigans to keep even a first-level Shocking Grasp fairly relevant. So, between that and True Strike, I'm pretty much looking for something useful she can cast when the target isn't five feet in front of her for melee attacks.
The most obvious option I can think of is Grease, but I have a totally-irrational dislike of that spell, so I'm really hoping for another useful option. Thunderstomp is the next best I can find... are there better options that I'm missing?
If you don't like grease, hydraulic push can be great battlefield control to toss people into pits and such.
What I find important as a sorcerer is having spells that hit different saves. My kitsune enchanter has will spells, yes. But also spells that target reflex saves, and fortitude.
One of my current favorites is snowball. I like it not only because it does good damage, but also because of the secondary condition that triggers when critters fail their fortitude. They get staggered. This is awesome to use on multiple attack creatures because it brings them down to just one attack or one movement a round.
I've got the different-saves aspect covered when not trying to cover the world in six spells/round (fifth and sixth level as the primary choices-- Constricting Coils, Icy Prison, and Flesh to Stone are my big three). However, I'm... leery, shall we say, of trying to put together any kind of save-oriented offense out of my first-level spells.
Snowball is a strong choice. I'd overlooked it before because among the second-level spells is Frigid Touch, which staggers without bothering to ask for a save... but it's inherently less spammable and requires melee contact, which hurts. Also, at this point casting it means giving up something like Enervation or Haste since it'd be in that fourth-level slot.
Hydraulic Push... eh. What makes it a better option than Thunderstomp? At the lower levels especially it seems more nichey compared to the trip, at higher levels both of them get shrugged off by a multitude of creatures.
BretI wrote:
Hydralic Push, Ray of Enfeeblement, Touch of Gracelessness (especially if you have people with Combat Reflexes)
Might want to consider Shield, even though you would only cast it the first round of combat.
Oooh, Ray of Enfeeblement. I'd forgotten about that one, and it's almost certainly better than Thunderstomp. Less fond of Touch of Gracelessness for being a little more nichey, and for requiring melee range. Shield, while definitely sitting on the Magus side of my spell lists, isn't something I'd think I'd want to cast frequently enough to keep a slot on the Sorcerer side.
First two are core.
+1 for Grease. This spell is soft area control, help your buddy get out of a grab/grapple, disarm the BBEG of his specialty weapon...and it's SR: No.
Another vote for Ray of Enfeeblement.
Non-Core
Snowball, especially with Rime Spell.
Beguiling Gift (here take these manacles and put them on please!)
Moment of Greatness...if someone is getting a morale bonus...like that barbarian. Or under the effects of Bless, Heroism, etc...
Vanish.
Eh, Core vs. Noncore doesn't make a big difference; the DM is fine with pulling stuff off the SRD/Pfsrd.
Grease /would/ be the optimal choice but I can't make myself want to use it. Totally-irrational, but there it is.
Moment of Greatness... that's got a lot of temptation. Heroism/Mythic Heroism is high on my list of spells to put in the 4th-level part of these shenanigans, so adding Moment for an easy +2/+4 is pretty awesome, especially since I can make it spammable. There's a Barbarian in the party, but sadly nobody to Bless or the like.
I hadn't really considered Vanish; it's sitting over on the Magus side of my spells. That could definitely be worth moving over though. Most definitely.
Beguiling Gift is hilarious, but not a Sorcerer spell.
Ray of Enfeeblement is probably the optimal choice here, but I'm reaaaally liking Moment of Greatness and Vanish. Less powerful, certainly, but I'm liking them.
So, between the two of them... which would you pick, or should I take both and shuffle True Strike over to the Magus end/drop Protection From Evil?
Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The only advantage of Hydralic Push over Thunderstomp would be that it can put out normal fires. That can be an advantage at some point, but not a huge one.
Moment of Greatness looks interesting, I haven't used that one before. Do you have a way to give a Morale bonus, or would you be depending on another character to provide it?
The only advantage of Hydralic Push over Thunderstomp would be that it can put out normal fires. That can be an advantage at some point, but not a huge one.
Moment of Greatness looks interesting, I haven't used that one before. Do you have a way to give a Morale bonus, or would you be depending on another character to provide it?
Heroism/Mythic Heroism, and there's a Barbarian in the party.
The abilities in particular that I'm relying on for this is a combination of Arcane Surge (Archmage path ability; cast a spell as a swift action) and Arcane Fusion (3.5 spell out of Complete Mage, 5th level spell that lets you immediately cast a 1st level spell and a 4th level spell, with the caveat that they have to be Sorcerer spells. GM's okayed it, just not the totally-insane Greater version). So basically: spend one mythic power, cast a 4th level spell and a 1st level spell for my swift action. Then I have the standard action/Spell Combat full action, which if I don't need to use a higher-power spell can be used for the same thing. If I really want to spam casting, I can use Mythic's Amazing Initiative ability (2nd tier) for an extra standard action, and use that to activate the Draconic Bloodline's breath weapon. Coupled Arcana (Archmage path ability; use an ability that expends mythic power when you use a Magus Arcana/Sorcerer bloodline ability/other stuff) triggers, I can use Arcane Surge again. Personally I thought the last one was kind of dodgy, but the GM says it works so I'm certainly not complaining.
The upshot: this girl is a spellcasting machine when she wants to burn off mythic power, but she's heavily reliant on lower-level spells. For the most part that's fine, because there's some very good stuff in the 4th and lower level range for me to work with. Haste, Heroism, Greater Stunning Barrier... She has a lot of useful spells that she wants to cast rather often. It's the first-level part that's giving me fits. But, to return to the original question in a pretty circular route, it's fair to assume that if she's casting Moment of Greatness, she cast Heroism the second before.
Just a Mort wrote:
Magic missile is one way of saying counterspell.
" I ready to cast magic missile at the enemy casty as soon as he cast a spell"
If your oppoent does not have shield spell up, and your crossblooded increases magic missile damage, that's one painful concentration check to make.
In theory I could put Elemental Spell (as I'm taking it anyway) on Magic Missile for the extra 1 damage/missile, but then it's a second-level spell slot. I'm taking Magic Missile on the Magus side anyway, but readying it isn't going to work well with the abilities I'm working with. Good to have, good to have on the Magus side, not quite what I'm looking for here.
The Crossblooding is Draconic/Sage, so rather than extra damage I was really looking to use it to unify my casting stats and provide a better capstone than what Draconic offers (though the broader spell selection definitely helps). Draconic is half flavor (girl has a major dragon theme going on), half GM making some rulings that make most of the abilities awesome (natural armor bonuses stack as long as they're not dependent on different forms, the above tidbit about the breath weapon and Coupled Arcana, and flight is always awesome... the only weak power she has is the claws really).
Race is Tiefling (albeit modified, we got racial points to play with) and that's not really flexible. Favored Class is also on the other end, the Magus, because unlike Sorcerer I'm sticking with it for at least 17 levels and probably all 20. Sorcerer is going to prestige out to Dragon Disciple as soon as I can.
There's no Mythic Shield, sadly. Mythic Mage Armor is a thing, but I burned a path ability for Enduring Armor-- 3+mythic tier as an Armor Bonus, constantly on. By my math, at level 20/tier 10 (which, in theory we'll get to) I can get her up to 70 AC (+13 Armor (Force), +12+5 Natural, +5 Deflection, +17 Dodge, +8 Dex), so bumping up her defenses against straight attacks isn't really my priority-- nothing in the Bestiaries short of a Demon Lord can touch her with an attack, and even they need to get lucky. Of course, I neither expect things to actually go after this girl with standard melee attacks or expect to be fighting Bestiary opposition at that point, but it's the thought that counts.
Pages of Spell Knowledge... yanno, I never realized just how cheap the low-end ones are. That I can make use of, oooh yes.
3x Empowered Magic Missiles would do ~75 damage. ~75 damage on auto-hit spells is pretty nasty.
Not something I can pull off with a first-level spell slot though. I mean, it's doable. But it's going to be less powerful than chain-casting Shocking Grasps.
Actually here, let's just get everything into the open:
The exact build is still in a bit of a flux right now, since we're promised a boon of sorts from our GM for turning in backstories. I'm going to attempt to use that boon to turn Dragon Disciple into a 10/10 casting class. Assuming that can happen, this is what I'm looking at:
Notable Houserules:
Gestalt game, mythic game, in theory going to 20/10
Everybody received 17 RP to 'adjust' their races as they'd like. Amusingly none of us strayed too far from the races we nominally are. That said, the entire party has SR. Breaching it for buff spells will be critical.
Natural Armor bonuses stack, presuming they're not dependent on conflicting forms
Stats were rolled. We started with two players and both of rolled well. When we picked up a third and he got crappy rolls (even after two re-rolls), he was just handed a comparable array. Fourth player... if I didn't trust him implicitly I'd swear he rigged the dice. Good lord his rolls are awesome. While Shariza has the single highest stat in the party right now, she actually got about the worst rolls overall. Yeah.
The two Tieflings in the party (also the original two players) got to roll on the Fiendish Heritage table (roll 3, pick best). I got DR/silver, something crappy, aaaand +2 Int. No points for guessing what I grabbed.
One flaw can be taken for an extra trait; two flaws for an extra feat or two traits. Somehow I wound up using two flaws to take the Extra Traits feat. I confuse myself.
Everybody got one bonus feat at level 1.
Prehensile Tails may be used to hold items like wands or rods.
Kensai is a spontaneous caster, using Bard spells known/per day but still using Int.
The Kensai keeps Knowledge Pool and gets their modified Fighter Training at 10th, in place of standard Magus Fighter Training. This was an accident of me pondering how the class got the same feature twice.
GM doesn't like Precise Strike + Spell Combat. This made me a very sad Kestral.
The Draconic bloodline counts as being Dragonblooded and having the Draconic Heritage feat for the purposes of feat pre-reqs and spells
Draconic feats from 3.5 may be taken with Draconic bloodline feats.
Dragon Disciple's Form of the Dragon SLAs have been replaced. The 7th level one is removed outright; the 10th level is swapped for +4 Strength, +2 Cha, +1 Natural Armor, immunity to cold/sleep/paralysis, and Shariza becomes a Half-Dragon.
Elemental Spell actually adds the appropriate elemental descriptor, because what the hell Fire spell doing Cold damage.
Wings of Flurry has been modified with a cap of 20D6, must center on the caster. Don't care, I love the spell~
Permanency makes the spells, well, Permanent. Dispel can suppress them but not negate them. I will be leaning on this heavily. The GM is also much more open about making spells Permanent.
DR is only broken by having the material/type in question; i.e. a +5 weapon doesn't break DR X/good. This is the most glaring problem I haven't solved short of "focus more on spells"
1: Kensai/Fiend Flayer Magus|Cross/Wildblooded (Draconic (Silver) and Sage) Sorcerer: Weapon Focus (Rapier), Eschew Materials, Armor of the Pit, Extra Traits, Draconic Power
Traits: Pragmatic Activator, Finding Your Kin (Magus), Reactionary, Wayang Spellhunter (Shocking Grasp), Loner, Doubt
2: Magus|Sorcerer: N/A
3: Magus|Sorcerer: Arcane Accuracy/Draconic Aura: Spell Power (3.5)
4: Magus|Sorcerer: +1 Int, Dragonblooded Substitution Level
5: Magus|Sorcerer: Intensify Spell/Spontaneous Metafocus
6: Magus|Dragon Disciple: Broad Study
7: Magus|Dragon Disciple: Arcane Thesis: Shocking Grasp (3.5)/Iron Will
8: Magus|Dragon Disciple:+1 Str
9: Magus|Dragon Disciple: Elemental Spell, retrain Spontaneous Metafocus to Rapid Metamagic (3.5, C.Mage)
10: Magus|Dragon Disciple: Draconic Aura: Senses
11: Magus|Dragon Disciple:Empower Spell/Maximize Spell
12: Magus|Dragon Disciple:Accurate Strike, +1 Str
13: Magus|Dragon Disciple:Arcane Thesis: Wings of Flurry/Double Draconic Aura
14: Magus|Dragon Disciple: N/A
15: Magus|Dragon Disciple:Spell Perfection: Wings of Flurry/Open Arcana
16: Magus|Sorcerer: +1 Str, Retrain Rapid Metamagic to something
17: Magus|Sorcerer: Retributive Spell (3.5)/Open Feat/Bloodline Feat
18: Magus|Sorcerer: Open Arcana
19: Magus|Sorcerer: Open Feat
20: Magus|Sorcerer: +1 Str
Mythic:
1: Champion (Fleet Charge), Dual Path: Archmage (Arcane Surge), Enduring Armor
2. Coupled Arcana, +2 Int
3. Fleet Warrior, Extra Path Ability: Mythic Bloodline
4. Always a Chance, +2 Str
5. Crafting Mastery, Mythic Spell Lore
6. Channel Power, +2 Int
7. Eldritch Breach, Extra Mythic Power
8. Flexible Counterspell, +2 Int
9. Mirror Dodge, Open Mythic Feat
10. Arcane Potency, +2 Int
Spell Lists:
Magus Spells:
1/2: Acid Splash, Daze, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Color Spray, Shield, Shocking Grasp
3: Prestidigitation, Infernal Healing
4: Frigid Touch, Bladed Dash
5: Grave Mist (PHB II)
6: Glitterdust
7: Vanish, Fly, Haste
8: Vampiric Touch, retrain Color Spray to Magic Missile
9: Elemental Aura
10: Invisibility, Arcana Theft, Black Tentacles
11: Ray of Enfeeblement, Ice Storm, retrain Haste to Menacing Tentacles (3.5, PHBII)
12: Fire Shield
13: Arcane Sight, Wall of Force, Telekinesis
14: Mirror Images, Teleport
15: Wall of Stone
16: Greater Invisibility, Greater Dispel Magic, Flesh to Stone
17: Force Punch, 6th?
18: Freezing Sphere
19: Vampiric Shadow Shield
20: Stoneskin, Sirocco
Sorcerer Spells
1/2: Mending, Resistance, Touch of Fatigue, Blade of Blood (3.5)
3: True Strike, Identify
4: Message
5: Shocking Grasp, False Life, Resist Energy
6: Ray of Frost
7: Protection From Evil, Dimension Hop (3.5), Greater Stunning Barrier, Dispel Magic
8: Open/Close, Retrain Blade of Blood to ?
9: Wings of Cover (3.5), Heroism, Greater Infernal Healing (after Permanency: retrain to Enervation), Dimension Door
10: Detect Poison
11: Blood Armor (after Permanency: retrain to Frigid Touch), Haste, Aerial Alacrity (3.5; if Permanencied retrain to Scrying), Permanency (retrain to Constricting Coils), Overland Flight
12: -
13: Wings of Flurry (3.5), Arcane Fusion (3.5, C.Mage), Contingency, True Seeing
14: -
15: Freezing Fog (3.5), Icy Prison, Spell Turning, Greater Teleport
16: -
17: As the Frost (3.5, PHBII), Enervating Breath (3.5), Form of the Dragon III
18: -
19: 8th, Mass Icy Prison, Wish
20: Time Stop
3.5 stuff for those who don't want to look things up:
The Dragonblooded Sorcerer in 3.5 offers a racial substitution level at 1st, 4th, and 7th. The first and last are bad deals, but 4th grants the ability to turn a spell into a SLA: you lose the spell as a spell known, one spell slot of that level, and one spell slot of the next level up in exchange for having it as a 3/day SLA. The spell chosen can be traded out whenever Shariza levels up. I have... no idea what to do with this one, honestly, but I have the ability and it cost nothing.
Draconic Power is a generic +1 Caster Level and a +1 to DC with all Cold spells. This actually makes Elemental Spell useful for more than just damage-via-turning-things-Cold; it's also a one-off Heighten Spell.
Draconic Auras are a group of feats that grant a scaling bonus (+1, another +1 at 7th, 14th, and 20th) to a single ability for all allies within 30'. Spell Power is a bonus to overcome Spell Resistance. Senses is a bonus to Perception and Initiative. Only one aura can be active at a time; they can be changed with a Swift Action. Double Draconic Aura allows two to be active at a time.
Arcane Thesis gives a single spell a +2 to caster level and reduces the cost of all metamagic feats by 1. On Shocking Grasp, with Spellhunter, this means that an Elemental (Cold) Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp is 15D6+15. Adding Maximized makes it 3rd level for 75+5D6. Wings of Flurry, once Spell Perfection kicks in, will be 5th level for Intensified Elemental Empowered Maximized and is cast at CL+5; once it caps it'll be 175+12D6. I'm working on a Mythic version that ups the dice to D10s.
Rapid Metamagic removes the increased casting time to metamagic a spontaneous spell. Spontaneous Metafocus is a stopgap at 5th to get Shocking Grasp rolling, then at 9th Rapid becomes available. At 16th, assuming a Robe of Arcane Heritage (which I plan to have her get tattoo'd on; it's worth the cost), the Arcane bloodline capstone kicks in so that can be retrained to... something.
Retributive Spell can be used on any spell that targets a creature; if at any time within the next 24 hours Shariza is damaged in melee, she can use an immediate action to cast the spell on that creature. This can be used for a save-or-lose spell or just a Shocking Grasp to the face.
(Kelgore's) Grave Mist creates a fog-cloud type of effect that doesn't negate visibility, but deals 1d6 cold damage and fatigues those inside-- SR can negate fatigue but not damage.
(Evard's) Menacing Tentacles has the caster grow two tentacles to attack for them. Amusingly, they don't use attack actions-- they're free actions to direct and even get their own AoOs
Blade of Blood is a swift action to add 1D6 to your next weapon attack. The damage can be boosted to 3D6 by eating 5 HP damage. It doesn''t scale well, and is actually the spell I'm looking to swap out for all of these shenanigans, but it's been gold at low levels.
Dimension Hop is a short-ranged teleport, 2.5'/CL. However, it's hilarious for being a Touch-range spell. So Shariza can teleport herself or the allied Barbarian/Druid... or offer up a Spellstrike hit to teleport an enemy.
Wings of Cover is an immediate-action spell to grant the caster total cover against one attack or spell, plus one adjacent ally per three caster levels. I dislike the potential danger that is Mythic Vital Strike. I like having a free out to it.
Aerial Alacrity is a swift-action for +30ft to Fly speed and one step up the maneuverability chart. The GM is on the fence about allowing me to Permanency it.
Wings of Flurry was mentioned above, but it's 1D6 Force damage/CL in a 30' burst, and is cast at CL+1 for Dragonblooded. Normally it's uncapped and is thus insane, the GM capped it at 20D6.
Arcane Fusion was laid out earlier. Cast a 1st and a 4th level Sorcerer spell immediately.
Freezing Fog is a 6th-level Fog Cloud, except it also deals 1D6 damage, reduces everything in it to a maximum of 5', eats -2 to melee attack rolls and -6 to ranged attack rolls, forces every creature in it to make a Reflex save every turn or fall prone, and forces a DC10 Acrobatics check to move. Spell is a nasty piece of battlefield control and I love it.
As the Frost turns the caster into a pseudo-elemental. Outsider status, DR/10 magic and slashing, cold damage to everything nearby. It's... honestly not a great pick and if somebody has a better 7th level spell, I'm all ears.
Enervating Breath applies 2D4 negative levels to anything that fails their save against Shariza's breath weapon. Since that save will be higher than a straight 8th-level spell (go Mythic Bloodline/Robe of Arcane Heritage; with both of them the DC is 14+1/2 Sorcerer+DD level+Int modifier), and it's a Reflex save in the first place, that seems like an easy way to screw over a victim.
So yeah. I was originally looking for my Blade of Blood replacement but... I'll take whatever advice people have.
This might not be the popular opinion, but I'm throwing a -1 for Ray of Enfeeblement.
It is silly to use against mooks and only marginally helpful vs a BBEG.
I've usually found that a grease or damage spell is more effective for either situation. At lower levels, even the Big-Bad doesn't last long enough for a strength reduction to be all that helpful; at higher levels it gets resisted.
Just my opinion. Its from a recent game where I played my sorcerer from level 1-7 before game ended, and after most uses of Ray of Enfeeblement I wished that I would've used something else.
One spell that I love as a sorcerer is Silent Image. Its great for illusory walls to block LoS, or illusory monsters to distract and confuse.
