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So, it's certainly no surprise that I've followed along with the various threads here in the RPG Superstar forum (as I do every year), just catching up on some of the differences and nuances of this iteration of the contest, and it's always heartening to see a lot of newcomers and first-timers announcing they're giving it a go. It's also cool to see the eligible veterans returning to take another crack at it. Trust me, that kind of perseverence can pay off big-time! Just ask Mike Welham and Steve Helt. And yet, it's also possible that someone totally new to RPG Superstar (or even Pathfinder) can go pretty far, too.
But, before we see who makes the Top 32 (plus alternates!), there's the public voting round to help sort the better items towards the top of the list, and this is a necessary step which eases the burden on the primary judges who go on to select the actual competitors for the Top 32. As such, I think it's important to share a bit of carefully considered advice I have for everyone...and this comes both as a former-competitor of RPG Superstar, as well as my time serving as a judge for a few years.
If your experience while voting is anything like prior years...or, if it's anything like what the main judges went through when we sorted the submissions on our own...you're going hit a wall at some point which I like to call "The Wall of Voter Fatigue and Frustration." It's that point where you've seen a certain item you've downvoted time and time again, and you just lose patience with it. Or, it'll be an item which--from a design standpoint--just isn't quite ready yet. It may have mishandled certain rules or use of the submission template. It may be a joke item or an ill-considered one. Or a seemingly blatant rip-off of some intellectual property. And so on. Bottom line, it'll be situations like that which will continually try your patience and your sanity. But here's my advice...
Take a deep breath. Soldier on. Vent if you have to, but carefully consider how and where you do it.
Why?
Because it's as important how you conduct yourself during the voting process as it is in how you conduct yourself as an RPGSS competitor...or how you conduct yourself as an RPGSS judge...or how you conduct yourself as a future freelancer...or how you conduct yourself when representing a company you work for (like Paizo, hopefully). If you vent too harshly...apply too much snark...or simply fail to convey the wit you thought you were giving versus the venom it was interpreted to be...you risk reducing the esteem which others might have felt towards you, the contest, and themselves. And, perhaps more importantly, you run the risk of absolutely walking all over someone's dream with a total lack of sensitivity.
Now, some will say that's sugarcoating things for would-be designers who ought to learn here and now that they'll need some seriously thick skin if they intend to work as a freelancer in the RPG industry. However, consider this: Not everyone who enters RPG Superstar does so with the intention of becoming a freelancer. Some do it for fun and to feel a part of the Pathfinder/Paizo community. In addition, even if they do have aspirations of becoming a paid freelancer, you're not necessarily doing them the favor you think you are by blasting your feedback at them via a medium like the internet which does very little to carry any emotive content behind your words. What you thought was cute may be received as harsh, and not just by the one you intended to receive your commentary. Onlookers will develop an opinion of you, as well.
So, carefully consider how you conduct yourself during the voting process when you feel that urge to rail against a particular design or design choice. Even when veiled in as much vagueness as you hope to muster with your comments, there will be people out there who will endure a tremendous amount of stress wondering if your negative feedback applies to them or their item. And, even if you yourself are ready to take that kind of criticism, it doesn't mean you can assume everyone else is by extension. What's more, you run the risk of fostering an environment where others feel emboldened to take the criticism to an even higher level. And, unlike the judging forums where we used to hide that kind of rage-venting in the past, the voting public tends to air their views in plain view and in greater numbers. So, it can start to drain the life and enthusiasm out of the participants.
Therefore, if you take this contest (and your own design skills) super-seriously, you may want to start emulating that which you want to become...i.e., a professional freelancer...by demonstrating a professional demeanor in how you conduct yourself in the various feedback threads, voter frustration threads, and so on. Last year, we had a "Voters' Incessant Ramble" thread which kind of got super-negative and deflating for some contestants. It was eventually offset by a "Voters' Incessant Praise" thread, but not nearly to the same degree as the piling-on which took over the prior one. Eventually, there was even a "Critique My Item" thread which the voting public helped host as a nod towards the same kind of forum the primary judges used to host in the past. All three of those discussion threads are good places to practice the professional demeanor I'd like to encourage. And, if you can conduct yourself in that manner, believe me, people will take notice. And, if you don't conduct yourself in that manner, people will also take notice.
That's how life works. It's always easier to tear down something than to build it up. And people are always watching and judging you by your own public behavior.
So, it's my hope that, as people go into the public voting round, and as the judges put on their judging hats, and people start offering feedback to the competitors in whatever forum, that everyone goes into it with a commitment towards being as supportive as you can afford to be. Not to sugarcoat or handhold or give someone a free pass on a poor design. Rather, in spite of those things, to carefully consider the feedback you give so it doesn't damage the feelings of the receiving party in a way that totally ruins their ability to enjoy and participate in the contest and the hobby. Educate and build people up where you can. Bite your tongue and remain silent if you're completely unable to find anything positive to say alongside your critique. Basically, just focus on helping this contest continue as one of the best things going in the RPG industry right now.
And that's my two cents,
--Neil
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Every year I've participated I've taken on the onerous task of critiquing every single item posted in the critique my item thread. Most of those that submitted were gregarious and occasionally I got a comment back or two in defense. I had one threadjack and try to make it ugly.
Paizo's eyes are not the only eyes on the competition. I had another situation last year where a designer I was considering offering work have an immature reaction on the boards. I chose not to give that designer an opportunity.
I'm a high rolling 3PP by any means but that's a design credit that person lost a chance at. No one in this industry really wants to babysit an egomaniac. What happens when your work gets reviewed by Endzeitgeist or someone equally exacting?
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To be fair, I was definitely in the dogpile of "Voters' Incessant Ramble" and I do agree some of that went over the line. But a lot of it was also super helpful as it was largely unfiltered voter behavior. I learned a lot from the Ramble and would discourage banning it.
I'm also of the opinion you can always find a kernel of good to review. Thus The Good, Bad, and Ugly Critiques. The good is as advertised and I always find something. The bad is nitpicks, the ugly are the core issues. Even top 32 items get an Ugly.
I want to make top 32 but will be bummed out about the gag order if I make it.
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Just wanted to highlight a few comments that struck me as too important to skim over:
Not everyone who enters RPG Superstar does so with the intention of becoming a freelancer. Some do it for fun and to feel a part of the Pathfinder/Paizo community.
As an example, I'm one of those cases. If for some reason I do manage to end up advancing, if I get as far as the Adventure round I'll feel guilty for eating up a spot because I've never played a pre-fab module. My lack of familiarity with them pretty much insures a failure when on a deadline.
I'm mainly just here to see if I can succeed at Item, Map, and Monster then stick around for the spectacle, like going to a bar to watch a championship rather than at watch it home. A lot of ridicule of some of the more 'uncapped' aspects of my submission would send me home. I don't think I'm abnormal in those regards.
there will be people out there who will endure a tremendous amount of stress wondering if your negative feedback applies to them or their item.
This already affected me just off the Cliché Predictions thread despite no one having a way to know my item.
I've always been more of a lurker in the past during these contests, and even just in general. I've been a member of the forums for years, but I've posted maybe a couple dozen times.
Part of that is because I am worried how my posts come across. I remember reading a lot of the Incessant Ramble thread last year, and feeling like I knew exactly what item someone was talking about....which I felt was not fair, nor in the spirit of the competition. I feel that most of the thread was fine, and I get the idea of it, but sometimes people push things a bit too far. They make comments that they think are much more vague than they really are.
Don't get me wrong, I can handle criticism and I think anyone entering this contest shoudl be able to do so, too. And I don't mind giving feedback or criticism when it's requested.
But I worry that posts can influence people during voting, and I would hate to play a part in any negative effect.
For example, I submitted an item last year that pretty much boiled down to a single glove type of item. And so many people in the ramble thread were complaining about single glove items that I was worried that they would influence others to down-vote any and all such items. Turned out not to be the case, but I don't know if it's always that way.
I think people definitely need to be mindful of the impact that any comments may have on the voting, even if they are not obvious.
I think the most important thing in either a Ramble or Praise thread is to not be so specific that it's clear exactly which item you're talking about.
During voting, we should allow everyone to make up their own minds about each item, and over-specificity goes against that.
After voting, there will be a critique thread for those who want feedback. If they don't post there, they don't want feedback, so again, over-specificity about non-feedback-requested items is inappropriate.
But I worry that posts can influence people during voting, and I would hate to play a part in any negative effect.
This is exactly why I don't read beyond the guest judges' posts before I vote - because I feel that I should get an opinion from the people who will possibly be working with the winner. But other than that, I don't want to be swayed in any way. Sometimes, I will return after the contest is over to see other peoples' opinions, or if I am having a hard time deciding on a particular round I will read past the guest judges comments (very rarely, for the latter).
For example, I submitted an item last year that pretty much boiled down to a single glove type of item. And so many people in the ramble thread were complaining about single glove items that I was worried that they would influence others to down-vote any and all such items. Turned out not to be the case, but I don't know if it's always that way.
If it's any consolation, my item was also a single glove, and I pretty much lived in that thread through the voting process.
Bottom line is that if a person finds themselves sensitive enough to constantly wonder if its their item being joked about, then that will be the thread to avoid. Better to lurk in the incessant praise thread and listen to vague compliments hoping that they refer to your particular item.
Still, in a similar venting thread this year, I'll be sure to flag any posts that are too specific.
For example, I submitted an item last year that pretty much boiled down to a single glove type of item. And so many people in the ramble thread were complaining about single glove items that I was worried that they would influence others to down-vote any and all such items. Turned out not to be the case, but I don't know if it's always that way.If it's any consolation, my item was also a single glove, and I pretty much lived in that thread through the voting process.
Bottom line is that if a person finds themselves sensitive enough to constantly wonder if its their item being joked about, then that will be the thread to avoid. Better to lurk in the incessant praise thread and listen to vague compliments hoping that they refer to your particular item.
Still, in a similar venting thread this year, I'll be sure to flag any posts that are too specific.
Yeah, I know that thread was designed for voters to let off steam. I'm all for that, and I actually think it's a good glimpse into voters' thought processes, which is invaluable...my complaint isn't that I'm sensitive so much as I worried that people would be swayed by what they read in that thread. I used my item as an example, but there were plenty of comments there that I think I could say I was reasonably sure I knew exactly what item the comment was about.
As Steelhead pointed out, he avoided that thread for exactly that reason. I would guess there are others out there that might be swayed but who won't avoid the thread.
I just think that people should be more careful and be very aware of their comments and how obvious it may be which item or group of items they may be talking about.
Every year I've participated I've taken on the onerous task of critiquing every single item posted in the critique my item thread. Most of those that submitted were gregarious and occasionally I got a comment back or two in defense. I had one threadjack and try to make it ugly.
Paizo's eyes are not the only eyes on the competition. I had another situation last year where a designer I was considering offering work have an immature reaction on the boards. I chose not to give that designer an opportunity.
I'm a high rolling 3PP by any means but that's a design credit that person lost a chance at. No one in this industry really wants to babysit an egomaniac. What happens when your work gets reviewed by Endzeitgeist or someone equally exacting?
Now I'm trying to figure out what stupid thing I may have said...
I was guilty of an immature outburst last year -- it's definitely easy to get caught up in the criticism of the incessant ramble thread, especially when you can't respond to the criticism due to the contest rules! Which leads to Coleman's/Steelhead's points above.
For any newcomers, I definitely recommend putting on an amulet of natural armor before heading into this year's incessant ramble thread. And I'll honor last year's offer to make my inbox a venting/ranting target for any that are tempted to let loose their rage and fury upon the Paizo messageboards.
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The thing I like about this thread (and others like it) is that it shows very clearly that contestants (and judges) are being invited not just to put their RPG design skills on display, but their professionalism skills too. The point is repeatedly getting made that what other professionals in the RPG world value in a potential colleague is not just raw creative ability, solid writing skills, and rules mastery, but maturity, good judgment, and decency. I wish this was a lesson that got taught more widely, in a lot of contexts outside the RPG world too!
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As always, Neil proves that you can still cast a Quickened wall of text and still have a high Wisdom score.
The most important rule of posting on the Paizo forums is "Don't be a jerk" and that especially to posting in the rambling threads. It's easy to get swept along (I've been there myself), but constructive and positive feedback is always better.
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Some of the biggest differences between the "Incessant Ramble" thread and the similar kind of venting we as judges engaged in behind the scenes is that a) it was private rather than public, b) even if we shared stuff from behind the curtain, we tried to soften it by omitting the worst of it (which means we self-edited like I'm encouraging people to do here), and c) there were a lot less of us (i.e., three to four judges) as opposed to an entire voting public piling on and letting off steam. That last part is especially important, because as more people comment with something negative, the more it magnifies the hit to someone's self-esteem on the receiving end.
Thus, the "Incessant Ramble" thread runs a greater risk of harming those trying their hand at the contest...especially if they're first-timers or younger gamers...situations which we know occur every year. And, because of that, always remember that the folks competing in RPG Superstar aren't expected to be buttoned-down professional freelancers (yet). The contest itself is a gauntlet to not only demonstrate your potential RPG design skills and creativity, but to also teach you a tremendous number of lessons you'll need as a freelancer should you go on to publish stuff with an RPG company, whether that be for Paizo or a third-party publisher. I've heard Owen himself repeatedly refer to RPG Superstar as a "master class in RPG design." And make no doubt, I expect him to fully drive home that point over the course of this year's competition. So, for the lucky few who make it into the Top 32, hang onto your hats! You're in for an awesome ride!
With regards to the public voting and venting, however, just recognize there's a right way and a wrong way to point out the flaws in any given submission. And that goes for the latter rounds of the competition, too...not just the public vote to aid the judges in selecting the Top 32. Be conscious of how you yourself are rendering your feedback to others. Recognize that not everyone is at the same point in their design skills yet, and work to nurture the growth of them and the hobby rather than say something which drives away a dispirited, would-be contributor. Help people learn rather than just point out their mistakes. And reflect on your chosen words before you post them to determine if they're tearing down someone in an effort to show off your own superior design knowledge...or if you're truly commenting because you want to offer them some constructive feedback.
I firmly believe if you hold these principles in mind as you participate in the "Incessant Ramble" thread, the "Critique My Item" thread, and even the individual threads for each competitors' submissions (once they're posted for public discussion), you'll be doing a lot more to foster the success of RPG Superstar, the hobby, Paizo, and your fellow competitors.
Just a couple more cents before the voting gets underway,
--Neil
With regards to the public voting and venting, however, just recognize there's a right way and a wrong way to point out the flaws in any given submission. And that goes for the latter rounds of the competition, too...not just the public vote to aid the judges in selecting the Top 32. Be conscious of how you yourself are rendering your feedback to others. Recognize that not everyone is at the same point in their design skills yet, and work to nurture the growth of them and the hobby rather than say something which drives away a dispirited, would-be contributor. Help people learn rather than just point out their mistakes. And reflect on your chosen words before you post them to determine if they're tearing down someone in an effort to show off your own superior design knowledge...or if you're truly commenting because you want to offer them some constructive feedback.
Proverbs 15:1 - KJVA soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
Romans 14:19 - KJV
Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify (def: to build up) another.
Ephesians 4:29 - KJV
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Just sayin - He's got a pretty good point.
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I also think that some of the comments in the Incessant Ramble thread were attempts to vilify good items, perhaps out of fear that the commenter's item will be bumped out of the top 32 just because this other item is too damn good.
"Lol all these crowns . All crowns just suck. Did some body rob the royal family or wat? Im gonna down vote all crowns now because im so sick of them. Lol who votes for these things anyway..."
(Not a real post.)
Or maybe it was just me being paranoid. Anyone else get that feeling last year?
I also think that some of the comments in the Incessant Ramble thread were attempts to vilify good items, perhaps out of fear that the commenter's item will be bumped out of the top 32 just because this other item is too damn good.
"Lol all these crowns . All crowns just suck. Did some body rob the royal family or wat? Im gonna down vote all crowns now because im so sick of them. Lol who votes for these things anyway..."
(Not a real post.)
Or maybe it was just me being paranoid. Anyone else get that feeling last year?
That thread started to get out of hand towards the middle. When the Praise thread came out people started behaving again. I could see what you're saying but I guess I'm not quite that paranoid.
That's the key, the Praise thread was GREAT and a necessary counterbalance. Not only did we (I) need to vent about some of the not-so-up-to-snuff items but I also needed to let out some of the good things I saw.
And sometimes...I would talk about the same item in both threads.
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I also think that some of the comments in the Incessant Ramble thread were attempts to vilify good items, perhaps out of fear that the commenter's item will be bumped out of the top 32 just because this other item is too damn good.
"Lol all these crowns . All crowns just suck. Did some body rob the royal family or wat? Im gonna down vote all crowns now because im so sick of them. Lol who votes for these things anyway..."
(Not a real post.)
Or maybe it was just me being paranoid. Anyone else get that feeling last year?
Speaking only for myself, I know that the majority of things that I posted in the Ramble were things that made me laugh -- wording quirks or strange pairings -- but didn't really speak to the quality of the item. So I might observe "tons of crowns" and still upvote every single one.
I tended not to use the Praise thread nearly as much, as it's hard to be as oblique with praise as I was trying to be in the Ramble.
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As an example, I'm one of those cases. If for some reason I do manage to end up advancing, if I get as far as the Adventure round I'll feel guilty for eating up a spot because I've never played a pre-fab module. My lack of familiarity with them pretty much insures a failure when on a deadline.
With the deadlines, range of challenges, and competition we have this year, I'm happy to work with whoever wins starting the week after the contest to ensure we have a process in place to get through the actual work of designing an adventure.
I already have significant thoughts on the subject, to be honest. It's still a big leap, but I am convinced anyone who wins this can make it.
My advice for those about to vote is: vote for me! FOR ME! You'll know my item when you see it...it's the really good one. I promise. :P
Seriously though, I'm looking forward to the post reveal threads. There is good feedback to be had (and given) -- it's fun all around.
I also think that some of the comments in the Incessant Ramble thread were attempts to vilify good items, perhaps out of fear that the commenter's item will be bumped out of the top 32 just because this other item is too damn good.
"Lol all these crowns . All crowns just suck. Did some body rob the royal family or wat? Im gonna down vote all crowns now because im so sick of them. Lol who votes for these things anyway..."
(Not a real post.)Or maybe it was just me being paranoid. Anyone else get that feeling last year?
Intentional or not it I feel it certainly has an effect on the voting. Despite less than 10% of items having 'filigree,' people made a big deal about it. Big enough in my opinion, it became a deciding factor for some voters. Especially for new voters who saw someone with a tag behind their name, or enough posts to show a degree of experience complaining of filigree.
EDIT: I would also like to advise people about to vote to vote for Bugleyman's item. You will know it when you see it. It's the really good one :)
Ten items of 821. So 1% of items had filigree.
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Intentional or not it I feel it certainly has an effect on the voting. Despite less than 10% of items having 'filigree,' people made a big deal about it. Big enough in my opinion, it became a deciding factor for some voters. Especially for new voters who saw someone with a tag behind their name, or enough posts to show a degree of experience complaining of filigree.
EDIT: I would also like to advise people about to vote to vote for Bugleyman's item. You will know it when you see it. It's the really good one :)
You are correct, filigree was one of those things, it showed up on enough items, that for some reason were in circulation in the voting for what seemed like an inordinate amount of time and it did get some air time. While I never held that against the item in question when it hit my page, it did make me sad for the failure of designers to go out and find themselves a thesaurus, they're free here in the land of the internet.
Language is so important in RPGSS, this is a two dimensional space we're operating in and the only method by which we have to communicate is the words we choose. Keeping with our word, choosing to say something had a "filigree" design could mean it is traditional metal wire jewelry or it could mean "scroll work", "feathery" or something else lacey and airy which isn't really filigree. This would similar to saying the ocean or the sky is blue. Sure, we all know what filigree or blue look like, but man, that is booooooring.
Caribbean sea and azure skies are still "blue" but if you saw them in the same "image" you wouldn't mistake one for the other. We get 300 words (this year) to paint a picture of the item we see in our minds, it is incumbent upon us as designers to not be lazy artists. Superstars are not lazy, they go the extra mile.
edited to add I will try to vote for Bugleyman's item, I hope I know it when I see it.
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Ten items of 821. So 1% of items had filigree.
Yes 1%, but you failed to quote the most important part of that post from Sean McGowan - "Out of my recorded 821 objects, there are ten that use 'filigree' in the description. (That's not counting for possible misspellings, but it might be too depressing to do that...) Most of those don't use it inaccurately, though ironically the very first item I saw with it weeks ago definitely had an improper usage "
(emphasis is mine).It was the failure by some to use the correct word in context that gave "filigree" such a bad reputation. Again, don't be lazy, it's easy to find a better and more precise word. When you only have 300 of them, they each need to do more work. I am always happy to help you find a better word than that boring one you have, please, ask for help. Superstars don't pick the easy word, they pick the right word.
And again, even accurate does not mean necessary. How many of the ten items in question needed the filigree to advance the idea or concept of the item or make the item more noteworthy?
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I saw maybe one or two of the filigree items last year, despite voting quite a bit. It made the ramble thread a little confusing.
The other thing I'll say about the minimum time when voting is that it allowed me to "come around" on some items. After reading a few items that I didn't care for many, many times, I began to at least understand what the creators were trying to accomplish and to appreciate the creative impulses behind the items.
(To be sure, there were also some dark stretches where the timer couldn't move quickly enough, but I got through that. The praise thread helped.)
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And again, even accurate does not mean necessary. How many of the ten items in question needed the filigree to advance the idea or concept of the item or make the item more noteworthy?
To be fair, all the items need a physical description and for whatever reason last year's "black" was filigree. I'm certain this year will have some other word that more than one person will use and it may or may not get some negative attention.
This year we're probably going to see a lot of rods and staves, which by definition are masterwork sticks of various lengths. Filigree could be the right word to describe the inlaid silver wire design along the length of said masterwork stick, perhaps there are leaves carved along the length or runes or crudely drawn stick figures or heaven only knows what*, my hope is that how ever the designer described their item, they did so with deliberation and intention. I promise if someone uses "filigree" in what is the best possible use of the word, I will vote for that item if and only if it is better than the item sitting next to it.
*All these ideas are off the cuff, any resemblance to real items entered in the 2015 RPGSS contest is purely coincidental.
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2013 was definitely the year of filigree. 9 items total, 4 correct uses. 2014 had 2 filigree items, both used it correctly. Either they didn't know of the filigree debacle or they took it as a personal challenge, like my blood item...
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Despite less than 10% of items having 'filigree,' people made a big deal about it. Big enough in my opinion, it became a deciding factor for some voters. Especially for new voters who saw someone with a tag behind their name, or enough posts to show a degree of experience complaining of filigree.
Wow. I post a 'by-the-way' insignificant little statistical snippet and it actually gets brought up and discussed two years after the fact. My obsessive item collecting habits are finally JUSTIFIED.
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The power of filigree!
Ah, there's the wall of text I've missed so much. :3
I agree very much with the sentiments here. Sometimes the vitriol I've found against certain trends in design choice to be rather disheartening. The truth is that very few of the items, when taken in isolation, are "bad". They're almost all quite useful and interesting in their own way. Even the "bad" ones are rarely so bad that they deserve anything more than a "meh, not interesting for me".
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2013 was definitely the year of filigree. 9 items total, 4 correct uses. 2014 had 2 filigree items, both used it correctly. Either they didn't know of the filigree debacle or they took it as a personal challenge, like my blood item...
I really liked my barbazu gorget last year, didn't make the top 85. I somehow had it in my head a blood item would be a good idea after all the bad vibes from blood items the year prior...
:(