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If Geokineticist is on a boat in the middle of the ocean or flying in the sky or a Hydrokineticist is in the middle of a desert (or dungeon or forest or ancient ruins or etc), are rendered impotent as they have no material to manipulate? Or do they conjure elements into existence for their respective blasts?
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They can pull it in through the Ethereal or use ambient elemental matter. The only way to completely stop a kineticist from having their element is to cut off the Ethereal dimensionally and send them to a place like you describe.
Guess that makes sense.
I'd assumed that they were handled like Benders, where they needed to have their element reasonably nearby.
'Course, Firebenders generate fire from their own Qi, Airbenders need only air (which is everywhere, even underwater), and Waterbenders can pull water from the air in all but the driest places. So, yeah, Earthbenders get kinda screwed if they're way up in the air and have no metal around (assuming they're metalbenders).
They can pull it in through the Ethereal or use ambient elemental matter. The only way to completely stop a kineticist from having their element is to cut off the Ethereal dimensionally and send them to a place like you describe.
This need to be made into a concrete rule for kineticists, without it being so, some GMs will render kineticists useless with just a "there's no x around". I don't like rules abuse from either side and I'm of the opinion that explicitly concise is best.
Weirdly, doesn't this mean kineticists are actually weakest on the elemental planes, because they are predominantly one element with no-ties to the ethereal?
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Aren't the blasts and stuff spell-like abilities? They shouldn't be able to be cut off from their abilities anymore than other casters are(an antimagic field).
Weirdly, doesn't this mean kineticists are actually weakest on the elemental planes, because they are predominantly one element with no-ties to the ethereal?Elemental planes are accessed via the ethereal, not the astral.
Where is that said? It wasn't that way in 3.5e, and in the PF DMG it says that the ethereal is between the shadow and the material, and then the elemental planes are one step further out, so the material is closer to the elemental planes than the ethereal would be.
They can pull it in through the Ethereal or use ambient elemental matter. The only way to completely stop a kineticist from having their element is to cut off the Ethereal dimensionally and send them to a place like you describe.This need to be made into a concrete rule for kineticists, without it being so, some GMs will render kineticists useless with just a "there's no x around". I don't like rules abuse from either side and I'm of the opinion that explicitly concise is best.
Why? Nothing in the text suggests this. Restricting them in such a way would be a GM invention.
Why? Nothing in the text suggests this. Restricting them in such a way would be a GM invention.They can pull it in through the Ethereal or use ambient elemental matter. The only way to completely stop a kineticist from having their element is to cut off the Ethereal dimensionally and send them to a place like you describe.This need to be made into a concrete rule for kineticists, without it being so, some GMs will render kineticists useless with just a "there's no x around". I don't like rules abuse from either side and I'm of the opinion that explicitly concise is best.
Yet the question has been brought up which means that it's answer wasn't clear enough. I've seen too many open ended statements that hurt the game and the player/gm. So why not be clear to begin with? I agree that I wouldn't just cut them off because of no ambient elements around but I know others might so why not address it now?
Yet the question has been brought up which means that it's answer wasn't clear enough. I've seen too many open ended statements that hurt the game and the player/gm. So why not be clear to begin with? I agree that I wouldn't just cut them off because of no ambient elements around but I know others might so why not address it now?Why? Nothing in the text suggests this. Restricting them in such a way would be a GM invention.They can pull it in through the Ethereal or use ambient elemental matter. The only way to completely stop a kineticist from having their element is to cut off the Ethereal dimensionally and send them to a place like you describe.This need to be made into a concrete rule for kineticists, without it being so, some GMs will render kineticists useless with just a "there's no x around". I don't like rules abuse from either side and I'm of the opinion that explicitly concise is best.
Simply put, because it doesn't need to be addressed because there needs to be no answer because the rules don't allow for such a restriction. If a GM invents a rule that hinders a player, and that player disagrees, it's up to them to discuss the invented rule. Any GM who enforces something not explicitly stated in the rules as they are written is inventing rules, and just like any other invented rule, that's not the devs' responsibility to address unless they feel so inclined on a rules question post. If the devs want to invent a new rule for that class that restricts the kineticist, they can do that. But they don't need to create new rules whose sole reason is that it means that GMs can't create a contrary rule.
Think of it this way: I could post a thread asking whether kineticists can use their abilities in the presence of broccoli. Doing so would not mean that the text should mention that kinetic powers work near broccoli. Apart from wasting ink and page real estate, adding such text would be more confusing than omitting it.
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Think of it this way: I could post a thread asking whether kineticists can use their abilities in the presence of broccoli. Doing so would not mean that the text should mention that kinetic powers work near broccoli. Apart from wasting ink and page real estate, adding such text would be more confusing than omitting it.
Confirmed as designer intent: Broccoli prevents kineticists from using all wild talents. This will be specifically included in the final book.
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Think of it this way: I could post a thread asking whether kineticists can use their abilities in the presence of broccoli. Doing so would not mean that the text should mention that kinetic powers work near broccoli. Apart from wasting ink and page real estate, adding such text would be more confusing than omitting it.Confirmed as designer intent: Broccoli prevents kineticists from using all wild talents. This will be specifically included in the final book.
I will ensure I always travel with a party of hobb... halflings.
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Why I asked this question:
"Kineticists are living channels for elemental matter and energy, allowing them to manipulate the world around them by drawing upon inner reserves from their own bodies."
"Terrakineticists manipulate the earth itself, and they are masters of defensive techniques."
"Earth Blast (Sp): You shape earth into clumps or jagged shards and send it flying at a foe as a ranged attack."
Until Mark's clarification, a GM would be well within their purview to say a terrakineticist couldn't use their blast in the middle of the ocean or if they were flying in the sky using the text in the current PT doc.
Why I asked this question:
"Kineticists are living channels for elemental matter and energy, allowing them to manipulate the world around them by drawing upon inner reserves from their own bodies."
"Terrakineticists manipulate the earth itself, and they are masters of defensive techniques."
"Earth Blast (Sp): You shape earth into clumps or jagged shards and send it flying at a foe as a ranged attack."
Until Mark's clarification, a GM would be well within their purview to say a terrakineticist couldn't use their blast in the middle of the ocean or if they were flying in the sky using the text in the current PT doc.
I somewhat disagree. It doesn't say that it requires a nearby source of dirt or stone. It says it shapes earth into clumps. The earth can still be conjured from nothing, shaped, and thrown. I can see the confusion, but my interpretation is that if it doesn't say it actually requires a particular component, I don't impose that restriction. Compare that to the Move Earth talent which states "earth or unworked stone within 30 feet", which states specifically that it requires a nearby source of stuff to pull from. Without any sort of distance restriction, it's unreasonable to interpret the blast as requiring nearby material. If I see the moon, can I pull the earth off of it? Reasonably, the answer is no, but nothing in the rules states that I can't. Given that it doesn't have any sort of distance restriction on where the earth material is, I feel like it's reasonable to state that there is no requirement of earth, because the alternative is completely absurd in its conclusion.
Why I asked this question:
"Kineticists are living channels for elemental matter and energy, allowing them to manipulate the world around them by drawing upon inner reserves from their own bodies."
"Terrakineticists manipulate the earth itself, and they are masters of defensive techniques."
"Earth Blast (Sp): You shape earth into clumps or jagged shards and send it flying at a foe as a ranged attack."
Until Mark's clarification, a GM would be well within their purview to say a terrakineticist couldn't use their blast in the middle of the ocean or if they were flying in the sky using the text in the current PT doc.
OK, I can see where you're coming from now, at least. Hmm.
Think of it this way: I could post a thread asking whether kineticists can use their abilities in the presence of broccoli. Doing so would not mean that the text should mention that kinetic powers work near broccoli. Apart from wasting ink and page real estate, adding such text would be more confusing than omitting it.Confirmed as designer intent: Broccoli prevents kineticists from using all wild talents. This will be specifically included in the final book.
You, sir, win all the things.
I wasn't trying to be picky, I knew the wordings and I agreed with the op enough to suggest that that intent be made. Mainly in regards to aether and Terra, but in general as well.
What if you are a broccokinetic though? Brings new meaning to death by broccoli. I also suggest near contact with the broccoli be enough as well as pierce through all defenses.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
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For purposes of preventing a kineticist access to their abilities:
Would dimensional anchor prevent a kineticist from using their powers, as it blocks ethereal travel?
Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like abilities. The spell also prevents the use of a gate or teleportation circle for the duration of the spell.
Barring that will dimensional lock prevent access?
A dimensional lock does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
Would a kinetic blast count as an extradimensional attack form?
I would say anchor doesn't, since it wouldn't stop you from, say, summoning an elemental if you were anchored. Lock should do it, though that bit about attack forms is kind of weird. I'm not entirely sure what it means.
Wait, doesn't this mean your blasts should bypass spell resistance?
Same. I hadn't even noticed it until I was researching it for kineticist. Maybe it's legacy text referring to things like the Ethereal Ambush ability of a phase spider?
But that requires travel to do. Hmmm....
Lock should do it, though that bit about attack forms is kind of weird. I'm not entirely sure what it means.
See the Dwiergeth and the Taotieh for examples of an extradimensional attack form. Potentially also the Cannon Golem's black powder generation as listed in its flavor text. Maybe also a Vortex Dragon's Fragmented Strike depending one how one thinks that functions. The spell Rift of Ruin probably falls into the category of "extradimensional attack form" as well.
Wait, doesn't this mean your blasts should bypass spell resistance?
This post sums up the difference between physical and energy blasts pretty well.
This whole conjuring thing is creating all kinds of problems related to dimensional travel and what not. Why not instead liken the non-aether blasts to evocation? Creates a thing long enough to have an effect and then kind of dissipates.
Evocation: "Evocation spells manipulate magical energy or tap an unseen source of power to produce a desired end. In effect, an evocation draws upon magic to create something out of nothing. Many of these spells produce spectacular effects, and evocation spells can deal large amounts of damage."
Sounds pretty much exactly like the kineticist to me.
Wait, doesn't this mean your blasts should bypass spell resistance?Probably - but let's not reopen that kettle of worms and just say "not really"... :D
Oh, wait, actually it explicitly DOES for some (Aether Kinetecist,
Air - Air (but not Air - Lightning), Earth, and Water - Water (but not Water - Ice)). So three (Fire, Air - Lightning and Water - Ice) are subject to Spell Resistance, the rest are not...
Spell resistance generally works works evocation effects
Spell resistance generally does not work on conjuration effectsEX: Icicle Dagger(SR: No) VS Frigid Touch (SR: Yes)
They both do cold damage, but why does the Icicle dagger do SR: No?
For Icicle dagger you conjure a piece of ice then stab a fool with it. The magic part is already complete and spell resistance blocks that step.
Frigid touch activates the magic part when you touch the enemy, hence why SR does effect it. Frigid touch is not creating ice.
Based on what Mark has stated Kineticist Blasts are far closer to conjuration than they are evocation and you're attacking with an element that exists in reality, not an evoked element.
It breaks the internal consistency of Paizo's magic system for elemental Blasts to be affected by SR.
What about aether blasts? Can you trap "air" and blast somebody with it? Or do you have to have a solid object every time?
Also, if an aetherkineticist is required to have a solid object, does it have to be on his person? Can he snag something from the ground ten feet away? 30 feet? 100 feet?
If he snags a distant item and blasts a foe with it, can he get around cover (such as blasting an enemy in the back with a telekinesed rock that on the far side of the enemy from the aetherkineticist)?