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Forger's Updated Guide to the Magus
Ladies and Gentlemen, my Sister and Brother Magi, I welcome you to my small contribution to the world of Pathfinder. I welcome your feedback on this endeavor.
I have immense respect for Walter and his Guide to the Magus. However, Walter has not, to my knowledge, updated his guide since he posted it. Certainly not in a long time. So I made the decision to provide an update using all the new feats, spells, and features that have appeared since Walter published his Guide to the Magus. This is intended purely as a supplement to Walter's work, and is not a replacement.
Thank you.
Aww, you beat me to it.
... by a couple weeks, I'm lazy.
That said, a couple notes:
- The Str build makes it sound like they don't get any armor until 7th. Nitpicky, I know, but I looked at it funny.
- I honestly don't think it's fair to say that Str Magi deal more damage. The big advantage is saving 2-3 feat slots.
- Given that you either have limited use or need GM allowance to make Snowball work... rating it Blue to Grasp's Green seems backwards.
- Myrmidarch not being able to Spell Combat with a ranged weapon makes it Red in my mind, Snowball or no Snowball
- Tieflings get a racial feat (Grasping Tail) that's explicitly designed to hold stuff like rods in their tails. I'd note that rather than the "some GMs may..." bit.
- Personally, the Cantrips section seems... grating. In a guide, saying "X has a use that I'm not going to tell you" seems counterproductive.
- This is more for my own education... but how does an Arcanist full attack and cast spells?
- I would advise noting the (usually) expanded crit range granted by Spellstrike. That's one of the cornerstones of the basic Magus.
- Calling Arcane Deed: Precise Strike a feat tax when you rated its only pre-req Green is strange.
- Spell Recall flows into the Arcanas list a little too closely; separating it could be nice.
- Maximize does not boost the damage dice granted by Empowered. Using both on an Intensified Shocking Grasp is 60+5D6 damage
- Given that we're 6th level casters, I'd gladly take Spell Penetration over Piercing Spell.
- Card Caster has the same issue as the Myrmidarch: no Spell Combat because Spell Combat specifies melee weapons.
- Eldritch Scion should... really not be green. It destroys your resource base just to use core class features.
- I really think you overrate the Greensting Slayer. Losing out on the huge monetary and accuracy edge presented by the standard Arcane Pool enhancement is huge, and situational Sneak Attacks really don't make up for it.
- Spire Defender is... worthless, to be generous. You lose all armor proficiencies... and unlike every other class that does that, you get nothing to get the AC back. And the granted feats kind of suck, and you're locked into a small list of weapons. Also, you lose Spell Recall.
- Coupled Arcana is a beautiful Archmage option that got ignored. Spend an arcane point for Arcane Accuracy. Simultaneously spend a mythic point to cast a spell off Arcane Surge/Wild Arcana. Then do your normal full attack routine.
- The Champion has Fleet Warrior at 3rd tier, which allows you to move up to your speed as part of a full attack. That's crazy-good for a Magus.
- For funsies: Assuming you're using a d6 weapon, you normally average 3.5 damage off your die. Fickle Attack 1 boosts that to 4.33. Fickle Attack 2 boosts that to 5. Fickle Attack 3 boosts it to 5.5. Thus, you're taking three path abilities for, on average, about 2 damage per hit. You can do /much/ better than that.
- Mythic Mirror Images is really cool.
- Augmented Transformation is beautiful for Magi.
An addition of my own...
In the guide, you mention the 3.5 version of Elemental Spell. This is actually a valid feat in Pathfinder, albeit it becomes +1 metamagic level (rather than zero) and it has a pseudo admixture option built in. (I imagine players will still want 3.5's admixture feat if given the choice, since the pseudo version doesn't do extra damage.)
Kestral... of course you'd be here.
Str Magi, when not using spell combat, can two hand their weapons. That's 1.5x str score, as compared to a 1x dex (and only once they get all the right feats). That means that over the length of a campaign, a Dex Magus will deal less Damage than a Strength Magus, but only just barely. This is actually covered by Walter's guide, which I repeatedly instruct readers to view FIRST.
Spire Defender requires one feat to get back light armor proficiency, and those skill bonuses can be very useful. Never underestimate skills.
I missed that on Greensting.
Arcane Deed: Precise Strike considers Flamboyant Arcana a feat tax... sometimes. It depends on whether the Magi is a dex build and has combat reflexes. If they do, Flamboyant Arcana is awesome in its own right and there is no problem(unless you have a low attack bonus). Str Magi will barely, if at all, benefit from Flamboyant Arcana, which means it is a feat tax to get Arcane Deed: Precise Strike.
Clearly I was not clear enough for Fickle Attack.
That's not an average damage increase of 2 points... that's an average damage increase of 2 points PER DAMAGE DIE. With spell strike, that can be as high as an additional 32 points of damage over non fickle attack average damage. Higher still depending on the enchantments on the blade, and the potential for foebiting and Channel Power to kick in.
@Azoriel: I am aware, however the Elemental Spell Feat is not all that useful on its own, and is meant to be purely a prerequisite for Elemental Admixture. Thank you though.
Piranha Strike is for Light Weapons only. A Rapier is a One-Handed Weapon and does not qualify for Piranha Strike.
... huh. I could have sworn there was a statement that a rapier was treated as a light weapon even though it wasn't one. Ah well, thanks for catching that.
-Your covering of new material like Advanced Class Guide and Mythic Adventures is appreciated. But I feel that too much of the guide (Path of Dexterity, Path or Strength, etc) re-treads material that Walter has already covered. Might want to cut it down, re-focus.
-As written, the Card Caster is broken in that Spell Combat won't work with cards. If you work in Quick Draw and some shenanigans maybe you could get around it, but you still won't be able to full-attack-and-spellstrike with cards. Definitely isn't worthy of a Blue rating.
forger03 wrote: Str Magi, when not using spell combat, can two hand their weapons. That's 1.5x str score, as compared to a 1x dex (and only once they get all the right feats). That means that over the length of a campaign, a Dex Magus will deal less Damage than a Strength Magus, but only just barely. This is actually covered by Walter's guide, which I repeatedly instruct readers to view FIRST. The Str Magi can two-hand weapons that aren't a rapier, which is very easily the premier Magus weapon thanks to Precise Strike. Contrast:
Scimitar (two-handed): Str x 1.5 damage
Rapier (one-handed, Precise Strike): Str + level damage.
Ergo, for two-handing to be more profitable, damage-wise, you would need your Str modifier to consistently be greater than twice your level. Since Precise Strike requires Arcanas, not feats, it's not even realistic to contend that you can use feats to lower that differential significantly, because there's no Arcana to directly augment weapon damage. Precise Strike also has the advantage of being always-on, while two-handing only works when not using a core class feature.
I would also, frankly, really question what a Magus is doing if they're not Spell Combating. Unless they're more than 30' away from their victim, in which case they're not two-handing either.
forger03 wrote: Spire Defender requires one feat to get back light armor proficiency, and those skill bonuses can be very useful. Never underestimate skills. At that point, the Spire Defender has netted one feat (and again, neither of the two are very useful), and then later on costs you the extremely useful Spell Recall. Skills are nice. An extra ten or twenty spell levels' worth of spells is much, much nicer. Notably, there are excellent spells to replace every one of those skills but Escape Artist, and to prevent you from getting into situations where Escape Artist is required.
If you decide you want Medium Armor (a pretty realistic scenario, given the existence of a very good infinite-Dex Medium Armor), then you've netted zero feats.
forger03 wrote: Arcane Deed: Precise Strike considers Flamboyant Arcana a feat tax... sometimes. It depends on whether the Magi is a dex build and has combat reflexes. If they do, Flamboyant Arcana is awesome in its own right and there is no problem(unless you have a low attack bonus). Str Magi will barely, if at all, benefit from Flamboyant Arcana, which means it is a feat tax to get Arcane Deed: Precise Strike. Dex/Combat Reflexes really isn't necessary. I have a Str-oriented Magus in play with no designs to get Combat Reflexes that's taking Flamboyant Arcana as soon as she can (admittedly she's a Kensai and thus gets Pseudo-Combat-Reflexes eventually, but not for a long while).
Due to the non-regenerative nature of the Arcane Pool and the high premium the Magus places on Swift Actions, you don't want to spam Parry & Riposte like a Swashbuckler does; you want to use it against only the most threatening attacks.
That often means trying to Parry the first attack and then eating the rest (ideally, via letting them whiff against your AC), or if the first attack is too much doing that to the second. The Swashbuckler also has to make heavy use of Parry & Riposte because that's their only inbuilt defense; there's nothing stopping a Magus from casting all sorts of defensive spells on themselves.
If it's an attack you don't think you can handle with your AC, I'd advise giving Spell Shield a try. It's on my B list of Arcanas, but so very close to the A team.
forger03 wrote: Clearly I was not clear enough for Fickle Attack.
That's not an average damage increase of 2 points... that's an average damage increase of 2 points PER DAMAGE DIE. With spell strike, that can be as high as an additional 32 points of damage over non fickle attack average damage. Higher still depending on the enchantments on the blade, and the potential for foebiting and Channel Power to kick in.
Fickle Attack specifies a weapon or alchemical item. While Spellstrike allows the spell to be a rider on a weapon, it does not make the spell, itself, a weapon. Ergo, Shocking Grasp -> Spellstrike via Rapier with Fickle Attack x3 is exactly 2 more damage, on average, than SG -> Spellstrike via Rapier without anything extra.
In PFS, I have a Pluemkith Aasimar Snakebite Striker (Brawler) 1, Greensting Slayer (Magus) 2. After one more level of Magus, she will become an Arcane Trickster. She will get her Fifth-level spells at level 14. (A conventional Arcane Trickster based on three levels of rogue and three levels of wizard, gets Fifth-level spells at level 12.)
If you don’t have a grandfathered Aasimar for PFS, you can always take five levels of Greensting Slayer and then take Arcane Trickster. In that case, you would get Fifth-level spells at level 13 but would take one more level to complete Arcane Trickster.
Paizo classes are designed to be good through 20 levels. However, in PFS, you’re not going that far. Why not try something different?
Fickle Attack (Ex): Whenever you roll damage for a melee or ranged attack with a weapon or alchemical item, you can treat any natural 1s on the damage dice as if they were the highest possible number on those dice. You can select this ability up to three times. The second time you select it, treat 1s and 2s as the highest value. The third time, treat 1s, 2s, and 3s as the highest value.
It says whenever you roll damage for an attack with a melee weapon. It does not say whenever you roll damage for a melee weapon, but whenever you roll damage for an attack with a weapon. The spell is a rider, and is part of the attack. The whole thing is a single attack roll, therefore the spell's damage is affected.
For your Gear Section -
I feel you almost need a Warning about Meta-Magic Rods.
In PFS I've seen too many Magus try to Spell Combat while using a Meta-Magic Rod. Rod's must be equipped and held in your hand to use them. There is no way a Magus can spell combat while holding a Rod unless (1) Magus is using the Rod as the weapon (2) Magus has 3 or more hands.
PS. Tiefling's Tail does not count as being held in your hand.
PSS. this is just a pet peeve of mine as it seems like it's usually the PFS munchkins that try to get away with this.
forger03 wrote: Fickle Attack (Ex): Whenever you roll damage for a melee or ranged attack with a weapon or alchemical item, you can treat any natural 1s on the damage dice as if they were the highest possible number on those dice. You can select this ability up to three times. The second time you select it, treat 1s and 2s as the highest value. The third time, treat 1s, 2s, and 3s as the highest value.
It says whenever you roll damage for an attack with a melee weapon. It does not say whenever you roll damage for a melee weapon, but whenever you roll damage for an attack with a weapon. The spell is a rider, and is part of the attack. The whole thing is a single attack roll, therefore the spell's damage is affected.
... No. A spell is not a weapon. It is delivered as part of the same action as the weapon strike (assuming Spellstrike is used of course), but it is not, itself, a weapon.
The only thing that Spellstrike does is let the spell use the weapon's to-hit and critical range instead of its own (and incidentally, not entirely-- the difference in critical language for x3 or x4 crits is excellent evidence that they are not the same roll).
It's a single attack roll, because Spellstrike specifies that it is, but nothing in Spellstrike specifies that it's a single damage roll, so since the damage is coming from two different effects it would not be presumed to be rolled together.
The spell will benefit from things that increase the weapon's to-hit and critical threat range, but that's it. A spell is not a weapon.
I honestly believe that the two spells that I see most that are used to define Magi are Shocking grasp and Frostbite. One for single target damage dealing and the other to debuff by stacking multiple conditions on several opponents.
I have seen many DM's poo poo the snowball spell as being over powered for its level and since it is not in a primary book I can see many DM's saying no because of that. Not that it isn't a nice spell it just seems like a spell that you may not be able to rely on as a defining concept with out talking with your DM first.
Narrater wrote: I honestly believe that the two spells that I see most that are used to define Magi are Shocking grasp and Frostbite. One for single target damage dealing and the other to debuff by stacking multiple conditions on several opponents.
I have seen many DM's poo poo the snowball spell as being over powered for its level and since it is not in a primary book I can see many DM's saying no because of that. Not that it isn't a nice spell it just seems like a spell that you may not be able to rely on as a defining concept with out talking with your DM first.
The big problem with Snowball is that getting it into a functional position is a gigantic pain in the rear. Close Arcana doesn't work; Snowball isn't a Ray. Which only offers one limited-use Magic Item, and having your main trick only work three times a day is... really crappy.
This is why Forger presented the idea of building a custom version of that item as infinite-use, which turns Snowball into a straight Shocking Grasp upgrade.
Good luck getting your GM to let you do that, of course.
I wouldn't waste time arguing with you if I didn't need to clarify for the sake of other players. I suppose this means you don't realize what Fickle Attack was meant for. Sneak Attack. Fickle attack's wording is very specific. It says damage rolled when successfully attacking with a weapon. It does not say weapon damage, or the damage dealt by the weapon. It says damage rolled when successfully attacking with a weapon or alchemical item.
Sneak attack occurs when an attack is successful while flanking the target or while the target is denied its dexterity bonus to AC against that attack. The damage from sneak attack is added onto the damage dealt by the attack... but the damage from sneak attack is NOT weapon damage, it comes from another source. Just like the damage from spellstrike. If fickle attack doesn't work with spell strike, it also should not work with Sneak Attack... which betrays its entire purpose.
So let me go over this one more time. Fickle attack states: "Whenever you roll damage for a melee or ranged attack with a weapon or alchemical item..." I am a magus. I spell strike with shocking grasp. I make an attack roll with my scimitar. I have now attacked with a weapon. That attack is an 18, which beats my opponents AC. I have now HIT my opponent with that attack. I roll damage for the attack. That includes the damage of both the scimitar, and Shocking grasp, since it is all one attack. Fickle Atttack triggers on a weapon attack, regardless of the source of the damage being added to that attack. All ones I roll will be treated as the max number on that die, for both the weapon and for shocking grasp.
Where is your evidence that Fickle Attack was meant to be used with Sneak Attack? Nothing in Fickle Attack says or implies that.
Do you have any Rules as Written evidence that Spellstrike allows all modifications to weapon rolls to apply to the spell, rather than only the ones that it explicitly allows?
forger03 wrote: I wouldn't waste time arguing with you if I didn't need to clarify for the sake of other players. I suppose this means you don't realize what Fickle Attack was meant for. Sneak Attack. Fickle attack's wording is very specific. It says damage rolled when successfully attacking with a weapon. It does not say weapon damage, or the damage dealt by the weapon. It says damage rolled when successfully attacking with a weapon or alchemical item.
Sneak attack occurs when an attack is successful while flanking the target or while the target is denied its dexterity bonus to AC against that attack. The damage from sneak attack is added onto the damage dealt by the attack... but the damage from sneak attack is NOT weapon damage, it comes from another source. Just like the damage from spellstrike. If fickle attack doesn't work with spell strike, it also should not work with Sneak Attack... which betrays its entire purpose.
So let me go over this one more time. Fickle attack states: "Whenever you roll damage for a melee or ranged attack with a weapon or alchemical item..." I am a magus. I spell strike with shocking grasp. I make an attack roll with my scimitar. I have now attacked with a weapon. That attack is an 18, which beats my opponents AC. I have now HIT my opponent with that attack. I roll damage for the attack. That includes the damage of both the scimitar, and Shocking grasp, since it is all one attack. Fickle Atttack triggers on a weapon attack, regardless of the source of the damage being added to that attack. All ones I roll will be treated as the max number on that die, for both the weapon and for shocking grasp.
I can easily see a DM ruling against your interpretation of how the ability works since you are only using the weapon to deliver the spell. It is very similar to the enforcer and frostbite combo get prior approval before relying on it.
kestral287 wrote: Where is your evidence that Fickle Attack was meant to be used with Sneak Attack? Nothing in Fickle Attack says or implies that.
Do you have any Rules as Written evidence that Spellstrike allows all modifications to weapon rolls to apply to the spell, rather than only the ones that it explicitly allows?
Fickle attack appears amongst the mythic powers of the trickster, a mythic path all but explicitly suited to augmenting and empowering the the Rogue, the Ninja, and the Alchemist (all three of which can use sneak attack). In addition, the fact that this ability is so deliberately worded should serve as a clue.
It specifies an attack with a weapon, but it NEVER specifics that it affects only the damage of the WEAPON. It instead states that any damage rolled as part of an attack with a weapon (which would include spellstrike damage, sneak attack damage, and even the damage of an alchemist's bombs using specific archetypes) OR with attacks made with Alchemical items treats ones as the highest number on that die.
Most abilities that specifically only affect the damage dealt by the weapon specify that they ONLY affect the damage dealt by the weapon, and do not affect other aspects of the attack or damage. Vital strike, as an example. Critical hits and enchantments such as shocking use similar language. Fickle attack does not.
Your question regarding what spellstrike allows to affect the spell is invalid to the argument, because it presumes that fickle attack is first a modification to the damage of the weapon rather than modification to the attack itself.
- Fickle Attack being a Trickster ability in no way inherently means it works with Sneak Attack. As you yourself have noted, the Trickster is designed for multiple classes. Not all of these classes get Sneak Attack. In fact, to quote off the SRD...
Quote: Classes: Members of any class that relies on skills would make good tricksters, as would those who heavily utilize ranged combat or magical methods of subterfuge. The alchemist, bard, and rogue all have a number of abilities that fit well with the trickster. Gunslingers, monks, and rangers will also find that the trickster has more than a few interesting options. Six classes are called out by name. Of them, one has Sneak Attack as a baseline ability and one can obtain it through an archetype, leaving four that cannot gain it. So, I will ask again: where is your evidence that Fickle Attack is meant to apply to Sneak Attack, and not just a fun thing for Gunslingers and Monks? After all, both of those are directly called out by the Trickster's classes, and both have the ability to deliver an absolutely staggering number of attacks, which makes Fickle Attack more appealing. In point of fact it's a decent pick for a Monk, since by the time they get 2d6 fists it starts adding 4 per attack instead of 2 with three takes, and will get better from there. A baseline 20th level Monk's Flurry of Blows is upgraded by 12.6 damage from one Fickle Attack, 23.8 from two, and 33.8 damage from three, assuming all attacks hit (more with Haste et al, but close enough for our purposes).
Thus, we have no reason to assume it's meant for Sneak Attack merely based on it being a Trickster ability. It's mathematically a solid choice for a Monk, which is also called out by the Trickster's class list. Hence I shall re-ask the previous question: what evidence is available that Fickle Attack was meant to be used with Sneak Attack?
- To quote Fickle Attack:
Quote: Whenever you roll damage for a melee or ranged attack with a weapon Reading the entire sentence clarifies it rather nicely. To break it down:
"When you roll for damage" Simple. Somebody is taking damage in some kind of way. Not specific though-- could be a spell, could be an attack, could be fall damage, etc.
"for a melee or ranged attack" Also straightforward. This would narrow things down to any kind of attack that deals damage, including any weapon and a significant subset of spells (no Fireball, yes Snowball).
"with a weapon". Ah. Well, that changes the game. Now we know exactly what the sentence speaks of. We're rolling for damage with a weapon. As a spell is not a weapon... well.
Some other notes that showed up, on a re-reading of the guide:
- Maximize will add an average of 25 damage to an Intensified Shocking Grasp, while Empower will add 17.5 damage. This means Empower adds 8.75 damage per spell level, while Maximize adds 8.33, meaning that Empower is a statistically stronger choice under the assumption that all spell levels are equal. The two are close enough that there's a very strong case for giving them the same rating, but not so much for giving Empower a lower rating than Maximize.
The counterpoint to this, of course, is that Spell Perfection exists, and since it doesn't care about the degree of enhancement Maximize is obviously superior to Empower here. However, that strikes me as something better noted under Spell Perfection than anywhere else.
- I find it odd that Quicken Spell doesn't get a mention. Not a great pick on general principle for a Magus, but since you're making note of Spell Perfection it should probably be listed-- if you have a free Swift Action, at level 15 Quickened Intensified Shocking Grasp -> Maximized Intensified Shocking Grasp uses a pair of first-level spell slots for an average of 95 damage before crits and weapon damage. That's equivalent return to an Empowered Maximized Shocking Grasp, but that requires a third-level spell slot.
- Believer's Hands should probably be Red. With UMD as a class skill and two separate traits available to make it work off Int, the Magus can just use Wands and Scrolls to heal if need be.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Any particular reason you cite Fencing Grace, but not Slashing Grace?
It's more feat heavy, but, for instance, it opens up the Falcata to Dex users, and Weapon Focus is (arguably) a smaller price than 2 ranks in Perform (Dance) because it provides an actual benefit that you probably want.
(It also probably bumps Whip magi up a color from their original ranking in Walter's guide.)
LessPopMoreFizz wrote: Any particular reason you cite Fencing Grace, but not Slashing Grace?
It's more feat heavy, but, for instance, it opens up the Falcata to Dex users, and Weapon Focus is (arguably) a smaller price than 2 ranks in Perform (Dance) because it provides an actual benefit that you probably want.
(It also probably bumps Whip magi up a color from their original ranking in Walter's guide.)
The Rapier is generally considered the 'ideal' weapon for the Magus. The Falcata is a better weapon in most instances, but after Keen it has a 10% lower chance to crit than the Rapier, which translates to a significant loss of damage if you're focused on using offensive touch-based spells.
*Shrug* Which doesn't mean Slashing Grace shouldn't be noted at all, but it's generally Choice #2 for Dex Magi, outside of specialty setups like the Whip. Personally, I would use Slashing Grace Falcata over Dervish Dance Scimitar, but DD fell off hard with the introduction of Precise Strike.
Tieflings don't have to take a feat to have alternate parentage. That was in 3.5 in Council of Thieves. Its now just part of that race if you have Blood of Fiends.
Slashing grace allows dex to damage, but not dex to attack. That still requires something else. In addition, Slashing Grace doesn't apply to anything that weapon finesse normally applies to. Swashbucklers can have take Slashing Grace and have dex to damage with whatever one handed slashing weapon they choose, but not the Magus. Slashing Grace is therefore vastly inferior to Fencer's Grace and Dervish Dance.
Kestral, You're clearly not going to let this go. If you don't want to combine fickle attack with spell strike in games you run or with Magi you make, that's perfectly fine. Other players are welcome to, however, and I encourage them to take advantage of it.
I would also like to apologize for being rude to you. I allowed my emotions to get the best of me. You always did have that effect on me. It was crass and unbecoming of me.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
There are a handful of weapons to which Slashing Grace and Weapon Finesse both apply without dipping another class.
The aforementioned Whip is the most notable, along with the Aldori Dueling Sword.
It warrants a mention, I'd say, though certainly doesn't warrant the top tier rating of the alternatives. Being able to get Dex to hit and Damage on a reach weapon that works with Spellstrike is pretty fantastic. Especially for archetypes like the Kensai that can get tons of AOO's, in combination with spells like Frostbite and Chill Touch that offer lots of touch attacks.
Matt2VK wrote: For your Gear Section -
I feel you almost need a Warning about Meta-Magic Rods.
In PFS I've seen too many Magus try to Spell Combat while using a Meta-Magic Rod. Rod's must be equipped and held in your hand to use them. There is no way a Magus can spell combat while holding a Rod unless (1) Magus is using the Rod as the weapon (2) Magus has 3 or more hands.
PS. Tiefling's Tail does not count as being held in your hand.
PSS. this is just a pet peeve of mine as it seems like it's usually the PFS munchkins that try to get away with this.
The Grasping Tail feat allows tieflings with the prehensile tail racial trait to hold objects in their tail.
On the rapier build, you might want to add the detail about the agile weapon enchant for anyone who want to save on a couple of feats and still get Dex for damage on any finesseable weapon.
It's highly dependent on person but the weapon enchant is just a +1 bonus.
You suggest manyshot for the card caster but dosent that only work with a bow?
Hopefully this doesn't count as a necro-post, but I have a question that will affect my build, and I've seen worse offenders on this forum, so I thought I'd ask away. Also bear with me, I haven't played a TT RPG since 2nd edition (dating myself here, aren't I) so if I get something wrong, let me know.
All that said, my question is does snowball actually work with Spellstrike gloves, or is this another "try to convince your GM to let you..." situation? Spellstrike gloves specifically say that created effects can't be used with the gloves, and since snowball is a conjuration (creation), with an effect (rather than a target) of creating a ball of snow and ice, it would seem that snowball doesn't qualify. This just seems to me to be RAW, and most GM's I've ever played with don't bend RAW on something that appears this cut and dry. Additionally, Snowball needs 2 standard actions to be used (the first to cast, and the second to conduct the ranged touch attack), so assuming using it with spellstrike gloves is out, would it still be a good spell for a Magus?
Thanks in advance.
MrHello3846 wrote: Hopefully this doesn't count as a necro-post, but I have a question that will affect my build, and I've seen worse offenders on this forum, so I thought I'd ask away. Also bear with me, I haven't played a TT RPG since 2nd edition (dating myself here, aren't I) so if I get something wrong, let me know.
All that said, my question is does snowball actually work with Spellstrike gloves, or is this another "try to convince your GM to let you..." situation? Spellstrike gloves specifically say that created effects can't be used with the gloves, and since snowball is a conjuration (creation), with an effect (rather than a target) of creating a ball of snow and ice, it would seem that snowball doesn't qualify. This just seems to me to be RAW, and most GM's I've ever played with don't bend RAW on something that appears this cut and dry. Additionally, Snowball needs 2 standard actions to be used (the first to cast, and the second to conduct the ranged touch attack), so assuming using it with spellstrike gloves is out, would it still be a good spell for a Magus?
Thanks in advance.
I'd rule that no, you couldn't deliver the snowball via the spellstrike gloves. I also wouldn't consider it that good of a spell for a magus, unless you really need something with range. Frostbite and Shocking Grasp make much better level 1 magus spells.
Quote: I'd rule that no, you couldn't deliver the snowball via the spellstrike gloves. I also wouldn't consider it that good of a spell for a magus, unless you really need something with range. Frostbite and Shocking Grasp make much better level 1 magus spells. That's the conclusion I came to as well, thanks for providing confirmation.
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