Quick Question about the Stag Lord's Armor.

[Trumoi]

So it says the Stag Lord's Armor is +1 leather with a bare chest, that despite the chest being bare it magically acts as leather armor and thus the wielder need not wear anything on their chest for the full AC bonus.

I wanted to know, as a new GM, is a character could wear something else that's specified to be only the chest? Like wearing a chainmail or mithral shirt over the chest and the Stag Lord's armor over the rest of his body? And if I would allow it, what kind of benefits and drawbacks should I add? Should it have a full +6 AC bonus with only the max Dex of the Shirt? Should I perhaps limit it to a +4 in total to make up for it? Or should I increase the check penalty instead?

[Philip Knowsley]

General rules are that only the best suit of armour would apply, but I'd expect that all of the penalties would apply. ACP, Spell failure etc...

[Lee Hanna]

I'd go with the above.

[shadowkras]

I belive thats flavor text.

There are 3 different body slots that might get you confused regarding armor and similar items.

Armor occupies the ARMOR slot, not chest or body.
Shirts and similar items (there is a list on "wondrous items") occupy the CHEST slot.

Mithral shirts are ARMOR slot items, despite the name. They count as light armor and you cant use them under your full plate mail and still get the bonuses, only the highest armor bonus will apply to your AC.

Robes also occupy the BODY slot, so you can wear them with armor.

With that said, you can wear a mithral shirt with the stag lord armor, both of their magical and extra effects will apply to your character, but only the highest AC will work.

[Generic Villain]

I think you're over thinking this. A lot of characters wear armor that doesn't necessarily translate in their illustrations; take Dovan (From Nishroch), one of the Stag Lord's lieutenants. Despite wearing studded leather armor in his stat block, he is clearly showing his bare midriff in the illustration. That doesn't mean his armor is piecemeal, or a special version of studded leather; it just means the illustrator is taking some creative license. I've heard that female characters are sometimes subject to the phenomena as well...

As for your actual question, you can make up any rules you want, but officially a suit of armor has to be worn in its entirety to gain any benefit. A character wearing full plate mail that decides to leave out the breastplate and helmet would gain no Armor Class bonus (or if the GM were generous, would treat the character as having "hastily donned" the armor).

However!

There is an optional rule in Ultimate Combat called "piecemeal armor" on page 198. That probably has what you're looking for.

[Chuckbab]

The Stag Lord's armor counts, stats-wise, as a full suit of leather amor. It occupies the whole "armor" body slot.

Chainshirts are armors, and thus always occupy the "armor" body slot. They can't stack. You have to take the better bonuses and the worst drawbacks.

[Generic Villain]

Trumoi wrote:

I wanted to know, as a new GM, is a character could wear something else that's specified to be only the chest? Like wearing a chainmail or mithral shirt over the chest and the Stag Lord's armor over the rest of his body? And if I would allow it, what kind of benefits and drawbacks should I add? Should it have a full +6 AC bonus with only the max Dex of the Shirt? Should I perhaps limit it to a +4 in total to make up for it? Or should I increase the check penalty instead?

According to the alternate rules in Ultimate Combat:

Leather armor (arms): +0 AC, +6 max Dex bonus, 0 armor check penalty
Leather armor (legs): +0 AC, +6 max Dex bonus, 0 armor check penalty
Chain (torso): +4 AC, +4 max Dex bonus, -2 armor check penalty

The sum would be like wearing a chain shirt, except it's counted as medium armor. So basically you gain nothing and sacrifice the mobility of light armor. Clearly not worth it.

[Trumoi]

Thanks for the answers!

[T.A.U.]

Re-opening this thread for another related question.

Is there a stated weight for the Stag Lord's special +1 leather armor?
If not, how would you estimate it's weight?

[Philip Knowsley]

T.A.U. wrote:

Is there a stated weight for the Stag Lord's special +1 leather armor? If not, how would you estimate it's weight?

There isn't, but I'd suggest you can go about it 2 ways: -

1. treat it exactly the same as normal armour... or
2. if you want to give you PC a small boon, reduce the weight by a few
pounds to make it different & special. (I wouldn't personally go lower
than 10lbs total, but it's up to you.)

[T.A.U.]

Thank you Philip!
I asked because one of mine PCs have a low STR and so Carrying capacity problems, and probably this armor can solve her encumbrance.
I think I'll go with something weighting less than 10 lbs too, but I was trying to see if there is an official way to estimate it's weight in a proper way since

Quote:

this suit consists of a heavy cloak, gloves, kilt, and boots, but leaves his chest bare

[Philip Knowsley]

T.A.U. wrote:

I was trying to see if there is an official way to estimate it's weight in a proper way since

Quote:

this suit consists of a heavy cloak, gloves, kilt, and boots, but leaves his chest bare

You're welcome.

I think you can find weights for all of those items in various forms in
any equipment list - so why not just add said 'heavy cloak, gloves, kilt,
and boots' up & bingo bango - you have a weight... :)
(Kilt can be anything from an armoured kilt through to just a piece of
clothing, so you can play around with that figure a 'little' bit.)

[Queen Moragan]

Now to derail this thread....

Trying to get the weight of custom non-magic leather armor under 10 pounds by adding a heavy cloak and a kilt together!

Each of those two items should weight at least 5 pounds, unless made of "lightweight" materials or magicly-lightweight!

(Yes, I know all about the guy I killed in our campaign, and his stuff.)

[Philip Knowsley]

In various lists of equipment 'cloaks' are listed @ 1 lb - however I'd argue
that these aren't 'heavy' cloaks. I'd probably go with 3 or 4 myself. (Cold
weather outfit comes in at 7 lbs, so the cloak would only be half of that max.)

PFSRD lists a kilt (clothing from UE) @ 1 lb - it doesn't have to be an armoured
kilt... (Although - I agree, for verisimilitude - it should be. However, an
armoured kilt is 10 lbs all by itself - so that would start to seem to put old
Staggy's armour right up there anyway...)

Similarly gloves are listed, not gauntlets, and interestingly most magical sets
of gloves are listed at a weight of 0, with a few at 1 lb.

Most sets of boots (from memory) are listed at 2 lbs.

So - adding up a minimum reasonable weight gives, 3 + 1 + 0 + 2 = 6lbs.
Personally - I think that's too light, but by the same token - if you use
an armoured kilt as part of the mix, it's heavier than normal armour...
I'd probably go with 4 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 8, if you're trying to get it down as low
as possible - after all, the player made the CHOICE (more than likely) to have
a low STR - so TOUGH when they complain that they can't wear good armour!

Go with what you think - your game, you know how they got their STR, you know
what will work for your group. ;-p

[Queen Moragan]

I have always considered the weights of clothing in the game to be too low.

I have numerous examples of cloaks and kilts in the closet and none of them weigh anywhere near just 1 pound each.

Lightest kilt 3 pounds - very light weight material, almost cotton like.
Heaviest kilt 5.5 pounds - ultra-heavyweight wool.
Average of all 13 = 4.5 pounds rounded off.

Lightest cloak 4 pounds - medium weight wool.
Heaviest cloak 8.5 pounds - coyote fur/leather.
Average of all 5 = 6.0 pounds rounded off.
(Not counting 2 Halloween cloaks that together don't weigh enough to register on the bathroom scale.)

That's my disagreement with a "non-magical heavy cloak and kilt" weighing in at less than 10 pounds. Adding a decent pair of boots and gauntlets (which are gloves too), and there is really no way to do so under 10 pounds, realistically speaking not game mechanics.

The key here is non-magical. With magic, yes a heavy cloak can weigh 1 or 2 pounds, a heavy leather kilt weigh 1 or 2 pounds.

I have no problem either with a player getting a custom suit of leather armor made for their character, and having it weigh less than 10 pounds. Because the PC's Strength is so low that every half-pound matters.

[Philip Knowsley]

Hiya QM - I agree with you totally...plus I work in kilos, so this whole pounds
deal really doesn't cut it with me anyway... ;-p

But we are talking about the Stag Lord's Armour - so that makes the cut for your
'magical' component. (Even though, personally, I don't think that should make
a difference, unless it's part of the enchantment. In my eyes, the weight is the
weight, so even magical items should be heavier than as listed.)

[Queen Moragan]

My comments are mostly aimed at T.A.U.'s referencing the armor for a PC with low STR, using (I'm assuming) a non-magical suit of "Stag Lord Armor" as a base. Hence the importance of the weight of the "non-magical" armor, plus what I see hanging in the closet everyday.:-P

[Pendagast]

this armor was clearly meant so the groups red sonja barbarian could run around topless.

clearly.

[Philip Knowsley]

Yup, well...it's not a chainmail bra at least...like most other fantasy art
geek's wet-dream pictures...

[T.A.U.]

The PC got a low STR due to bad roll, so I'll go with the proposed solution of 8 lbs for this specific magic item from the Stag Lord's loot.

8 lbs it's still more than half of the 15 lbs for a standard leather armor, and the unique effect of this specific armor will not be doable again for future crafted item.

Thanks to everybody!

PS: The PC is a female catfolk ranger, so she should "socially" benefits form the missing chest part :-D