Elfstar the Dancing Queen, build advice and refinement

[ohako]

So, it seems like reading through all the options available to the magus class over and over again is paying off with an interesting build

a) high damage before spell combat
b) spells and mobility and suchlike
c) crazy amounts of dancing and flavorful Varisian wackiness

Here's version 1 of Elfstar the Dancing Queen, feats and arcana to level 12. If you like, please offer feedback. If you really want to, argue rules on this build: I'm pretty sure they're solid, but it might not be consensus.

Race: arcane focus elf
Traits: Reactionary, Adopted (Varisian Tattoo)
Class kapenia dancer spell dancer magus 12

The kapenia dancer is like a kensai, but is missing replacements for medium armor and heavy armor. It also possesses the singular ability to wield a bladed scarf with one hand. Kapenia dancer and spell dancer do not overlap.

Stats: 20 point buy
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10

Feats/Arcana
1 Weapon Finesse
Bonus at 1 Weapon Focus (bladed scarf)
Bonus at 1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bladed scarf) (sorta)
3 Slashing Grace (bladed scarf)

Yup! +Dex to Init, AC, attack, and damage with a bladed scarf. You can still zap bad guys with spell combat if you want...but you don't necessarily have to to hurt them.

3 Flamboyant Arcana
5 Arcane Strike
6 Arcane Deed (Precise Strike), Arcane Dealer (from the elf's FCB)

a) this nets you precision damage equal to your level if you hold on to at least one arcane point. That and +Dex to damage and Arcane Strike is great.
b) Arcane Dealer ought to let you spend arcane points to enhance a pack of cards, even though you can't normally add enhancement to any other weapon (from spell dancer).

So now you're fighting with a scarf and a pack of cards while dancing. So far so good!

7 Combat Casting
9 Quick Draw (the first level it would matter full attacking with cards)
9 Rakshasa's Fortune

Eh. Rakshasa's Fortune is flavorful and cool, and it doesn't cost you arcane points or a 1/day to use. Try it with animal aspect to pile on the powers. There are a lot of polymorph effects in the magus's spell list, and I need to go looking for nutty combinations of monsters and extra powers.

11 Combat Expertise (for even more AC)
Bonus at 11 Improved Steal
12 Spirit Fingers, Manuever Mastery (Steal)

Of the arcana that only a kapenia dancer can take, spirit fingers is probably the best of the bunch. Elasticity is good, but a spell dancer already gains quasi-Mobility, and the crit-with-a-scarf powers are decidedly meh. If kapenia curse was rewritten to deal a penalty at random drawn from a harrow deck, I'd like that better.

Anyway, the steal you get with spirit fingers is decidedly weird: it's not clear if you're using the scarf to perform the stealing, and it's also not clear that you don't suffer an AoO from using the spirit fingers. So, the last few powers are there to help you be good at stealing in combat, in case that's ever useful. I think the big draw of the later levels is in the spellcasting anyway.

What do you think?

[ohako]

hmm, poking at the feats and arcana a little more, how about

a) getting rid of Quick Draw and Combat Casting

An arcane focus elf gets +2 to cast defensively anyway.
It's not like we're taking a lot of ranged feats to go with throwing cards, so losing Quick Draw isn't huge. It's irksome that you can draw cards for free to do some things, but you have to draw them as a move action for others. Ah well. You still get to use precise strike with cards, so that's nice.

b) taking Extra Arcana at 7th for Spell Blending, taking both mage armor and false life. 7th is the first level you can take two spells where at least one of them is 2nd level, and both spells are good long buffs that a magus doesn't usually get.

c) taking Combat Expertise at 9th, and then taking Improved Steal and Greater Steal at 11th. Going all in for stealing spell component pouches and holy symbols at high level, I guess.

Traits
Deft Dodger
Elven Reflexes

Feats
1 Weapon Finesse
Bonus at 1 Weapon Focus (bladed scarf)
3 Slashing Grace
5 Arcane Strike
7 Extra Arcana (Spell Blending (mage armor and false life))
9 Combat Expertise
11 Improved Steal
Bonus at 11 Greater Steal

Arcana
3 Flamboyant Arcana
6 Arcane Deed (Precise Strike)
Bonus at 6 Arcane Dealer
9 Rakshasa's Fortune
12 Spirit Fingers
Bonus at 12 Maneuver Mastery (steal)

At 12th, you get

1d6+Dex+12+Arcane Strike with a bladed scarf
1d4+12+Arcane Pool with a harrow card (and you can add Arcane Strike damage on round 2)

and your AC looks like
10+Dex+Int+mage armor+Combat Expertise (if you use it)+a mithral buckler.

pretty shiny!

[Weirdo]

Trade Combat Casting for Leadership, take rogue cohort named Black Leaf.

[PheNoMenoN]

hehehe, I see optimized builds all the time. But none with this much flavor :)

[ohako]

Weirdo wrote:

Trade Combat Casting for Leadership, take rogue cohort named Black Leaf.

Oh dear, I named this pet build after that Chick Tract?

smurf!

[Mistermook]

I'm not sure you can take the Bladed Scarf + Spelldancer archetypes at the same time. It's not explicit in the SRD, but Canny Defense is in exchange for Armor use and so is Dance of Avoidance.

[Weirdo]

Oddly enough it works. While the Bladed Scarf Dancer trades armour proficiency, it doesn't actually trade away the medium and heavy armour features. The Spelldancer trades away the medium and heavy armour abilities, but not the initial proficiency in light armour. It's probably an oversight that the Bladed Scarf Dancer goes from no ability to wear armour to ability to wear medium armour at level 7, but as is the archetypes are compatible, and work quite well together.

Anyhow, I do really like the build. It's flavourful and looks pretty functional. I agree with ohako that Combat Casting is probably unnecessary. If you're not keen on Spell Blending as a replacement for Combat Casting, level 7 might be the time to pick up Combat Expertise in preparation for Improved and Greater Steal.

I wouldn't necessarily get rid of Quick Draw - depends on how often you find yourself using the cards between levels 6 and 9. But if you do, another feat to consider at level 9 is Dimensional Agility, for use with the Dimension Door SLA you get at that level with the spelldance.

[Hayato Ken]

Well, at least in PFS not legal since it says: "replaces or modifies" as far as i know. Armor proficiency is clearly modified.
Very nice idea though!

[Weirdo]

Bladed Scarf Dancer modifies armour proficiency but not the medium or heavy armour abilities, which are granted separately from the armour proficiency ability. Compare/contrast Kensai which modifies armour proficiency AND replaces the medium and heavy armour abilities, getting extra abilities in exchange which the bladed scarf dancer does not get even though the archetype is identical at level 1 aside from the ability to use the scarf one-handed.

The archetype's creator may have intended to swap out all armour use, but the archetype clearly doesn't work that way, just like the Titan Mauler author intended the archetype to allow the use of two-handed large weapons but it does not actually do that.

Spelldancer replaces the medium and heavy armour abilities but does not modify armour proficiency. Combining it with the bladed scarf dancer seems to me like a really good way to actually follow through on the "no armour use at all" concept and actually get something in exchange.

[Suthainn]

Love the concept, being a huge fan of the Varisian style it really hits the spot, the only thing that concerns me is that giving up the ability to buff your weapon due to the Spell Dance ability might make it too hard to hit accurately? TWF penalties, 3/4 BAB & no Arcane buff seems like it might push you into frequent miss territory which would be a shame with such a flavourful idea, thoughts?

[ohako]

@Weirdo - nice call on Dimensional Agility at 9th! A spell dancer gets to use dimension door once (per spell dance) as a swift action: which means you can bamf and full-attack (and without having to go so far for Dimensional Dervish). I like that a lot better than Greater Steal at 11th.

Who needs a ranged weapon when you pounce across anything? You also get dimension door's full range too.

[avr]

Elves can't start the '+1/6 of an arcana' FCB until they get an arcana apparently, so they get the first extra arcana at level 8.

[Brox RedGloves]

I DON'T WANT TO BE ELFSTAR ANYMORE! I WANT TO BE DEBBIE!!!!! (watch how I soar) also, Dancing Queen

[Abraham spalding]

Not telling you what to do but studied combat and improved studied combat will cost you 3 feats (amateur investigator is needed) and give you +4 to hit and damage against one opponent at a time.

Takes a move action but it's not like you can full attack all the time anyways.

[ohako]

avr wrote:

Elves can't start the '+1/6 of an arcana' FCB until they get an arcana apparently, so they get the first extra arcana at level 8.

Really? Where does it say that? I know that elves can take the oracle FCB to boost revelations they don't have yet, so what's to stop an elf from taking the magus FCB before they get arcana? Or, a human monk from taking their FCB before they have a ki pool?

[kestral287]

Abraham spalding wrote:

Not telling you what to do but studied combat and improved studied combat will cost you 3 feats (amateur investigator is needed) and give you +4 to hit and damage against one opponent at a time.

Takes a move action but it's not like you can full attack all the time anyways.

Pretty early on you should be hitting the point where you're full attacking in most situations. Spells like Bladed Dash and Dimension Door go a long way-- Bladed Dash + Spell Combat is pretty much pounce, but with an extra attack. I could see burning one feat for an option to use when you can't full attack, but three is a bit much.

You can't use Arcane Pool Points to enhance your deck for Arcane Dealer. Dealer says you can enhance the deck with the pool as if it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. That's all well and good, but there's nothing that a Spell Dancer can do with 54 pieces of ammunition. You can still use Arcane Strike just fine, if you really want to be Gambit.

That said, if you ditch Quick Draw I'd go ahead and ditch Arcane Strike/Arcane Dealer too, and just carry around a few darts. Honestly, I'd consider doing that anyway-- the appeal of Arcane Dealer, to me, is that it lets you create some pretty nasty ranged weapons via the use of the arcane pool. Without that it's really no better than darts, and you can use Arcane Strike with a dart just fine if you really want to.

Ditch Combat Casting. Combat Casting is not great. Especially by level 12.

[Abraham spalding]

the more spells spent closing the less you have for the day. i know that dladed dash and d door with the needed feats are nice however as an additional option with a bonus to hit from anew source that carries damage too it is nice. the biggest issue in my eyes is that 3 feat burn for full effect.

[kestral287]

Oh, certainly, if you can swing things without burning a spell then by all means save the spell... but I would gladly sacrifice a level 2 spell every combat for three feats. One feat? Sure. Two feats? I've done similar. Three... is a lot to ask.

[Weirdo]

Dimension Door is available as a swift-action SLA once during a spelldancer's spell dance, so it only takes one feat to pull off the close + full attack, and no spell slot - though you are giving up on the other options for spell dance SLA (fly, blur, personal haste, or at level 13 freedom of movement).

It's a relatively small investment for this archetype.