Need some help understanding Sensei Archetype


Advice


Our party is Level 7... My Tetori has just died to "The Gobbler" and now I'm rerolling. I want to be a Sensei because the "Sharing Abilities" aspect seems awesome to me. Ive read that dipping in ninja, or Qigong would be beneficial. Can someone shed some light on me here?


You wouldn't have to dip into Qinggong monk since it stacks with Sensei, and Qinggong is always beneficial because you don't lose anything that you don't want to lose and you can apply the Qinggong abilities to your mythic wisdom ability.
A dip into ninja could be beneficial depending on what your stats are and how long you intend to dip. You would need to dip at least two levels to get anything good. If you have a high charisma, two levels will give you a larger pool of ki and a ninja talent, which you could apply with your mythic wisdom ability.

Personally, I don't think it would be worth it, but it depends on your characters stats and their role in the party.


So you're saying I can just be a Qinggong Sensei? as in one class?


Yes


Well then, this changes everything.


I like mixing sensei with ki mystic. You can spend 1 ki to give anyone a +4 to a skill check, that seems nice, with inspire competence on top.


So, If I took 2 levels of ninja, got a ninja trick, took rogue talent, then took "Ki Pool" would it basically be like getting more Ki? (1/2 her X level + her Y modifier?)

Silver Crusade

Yes. But Ki Mystic gets you more Ki too, without multiclassing. So you can be a Ki Mystic Sensei Qinggong monk.

My 12th level monk that just finished up a homebrew campaign also had the 4 Winds archtype. It was crazy fun.


All of those mix together without an multiclassing?

Silver Crusade

absolutely. no overlap.
I ended up switching to Barkskin, Scorching Ray, and Gaseous Form for my 3 Qinggong abilities. By level 12, I could party buff Barkskin and a +3 inspire courage, and let them reroll attack rolls and saving throws. Marid Style took my feat slots and was my offense, along with Scorching Ray. I called him the Sensei of Ice and Fire. Haha...


Okay, so care to explain how that works? lol.

Silver Crusade

The deal with archtypes is that no 2 archtypes can replace or alter any original class ability. So when you hear people say that archtypes "stack", this is what they're meaning.

Take an easy one...Monk's Flurry of Blows.

Sensei's Advice replaces Flurry of Blows. But Ki Mystic does not. In this example, they stack.

Master of Many Styles replaces Flurry of Blows. Master of Many Styles will stack with Ki Mystic (in this example). But it will not stack with Sensei.

Do this for each ability. If there's no overlap, the archtypes will "stack".

Edit:
Qinggong stacks with every archtype except for Martial Artist. You get to pick and choose how Qinggong alters things. Always Qinggong.


Ahh okay. So just taking Ki Mystic with monk would actually stack the ki pools?

Silver Crusade

Ki Mystic:
Ki Mystic (Su): At 3rd level, a ki mystic gains a pool of ki points equal to his Wisdom modifier. The pool increases to 1/2 his monk level + his Wisdom modifier + 2 at level 4. If the monk has at least 1 point of ki in his ki pool, he gains a +2 bonus on all Knowledge skill checks. As a swift action, the monk can spend 1 ki point immediately before making an ability, or skill check to gain a +4 insight bonus on the check. This ability replaces still mind.

that's the way we ruled it. That's RAW and has not been ruled otherwise. I did keep the pools separate.


I'd probably keep them separate as well. Now about the Ki Powers from Qiggong, is there a limit on how many I can choose? Or can I just choose the ones I feel fit for the situation as long as I am using the ones within my level


QuicksilverMoon wrote:
Ahh okay. So just taking Ki Mystic with monk would actually stack the ki pools?

Ki Mystic is just a monk archetype, so there's not any "stacking" needed. You would be a Monk with the archetypes Sensei, Qiggong, and Ki Mystic. (I have a similar build of Sensei, Qiggong, and Drunken Master--same concept but a bit sillier.)

If you multiclass with Ninja, the ki pools stack (because of the Ninja ki pool definition), and you use the higher of your Wisdom or Charisma to determine how many ki points you have.

You can't multiclass Ninja and Rogue usually, so you can't have a Ninja ki pool and the rogue talent Ki pool on the same character without GM's permission. In that case, just ask your GM whether they would stack.

Silver Crusade

Qinggong:
Ki Power: A qinggong monk can select a ki power (see below) for which she qualifies in place of the following monk class abilities: slow fall (4th), high jump (5th), wholeness of body (7th), diamond body (11th), abundant step (12th), diamond soul (13th), quivering palm (15th), timeless body (17th), tongue of the sun and moon (17th), empty body (19th), and perfect self (20th). This replaces the monk class ability the qinggong monk gives up for this ki power.

Slow fall and High Jump get replaced pretty quickly.


Sensei and Qinggong look like they stack fine. Ki Mystic and Qinggong however both replace Ki powers, so unless I am missing something then those would not stack.

Silver Crusade

Ki Power: A qinggong monk can select a ki power (see below) for which she qualifies in place of the following monk class abilities:

A monk CAN choose...she doesn't HAVE to. Keep said power, and archtypes stack.


That just seems ridiculous to me. That basically means every single monk in existence should be a Quinggong.

Was the intent to 'patch' the core monk with this archetype? If not then I have a hard time believing that this actually is supposed to work that way.

Silver Crusade

Search the boards. You know it to be true...
Sorry, had to throw in a Star Wars reference. But yeah, that's the consensus.

And no stacking with Martial Artist...no ki points, just sayin'...

Scarab Sages

Hawktitan wrote:

That just seems ridiculous to me. That basically means every single monk in existence should be a Quinggong.

Was the intent to 'patch' the core monk with this archetype? If not then I have a hard time believing that this actually is supposed to work that way.

Yes, every single monk in existence except the martial artist should be Qinggong.

I can't speak to intent, but it has been clarified by FAQ that Qinggong does indeed stack with everything.


Well, it's in the FAQ, so I can't argue with that. Qinggong monks everywhere it seems.


Based on how most Pathfinder classes that Piazo has made from scratch (and even several that they more heavily modified in the original conversion) work, I think that indeed they intend for every monk to be Qinggong. Having a choice from among several powers as you level, is more typical of classes than just having set abilities that you get.


Imbicatus wrote:
That just seems ridiculous to me. That basically means every single monk in existence should be a Quinggong.

Champions of Irori can't be a Quiggong Monk due to giving up Still Mind and they are the best monks.

Scarab Sages

GM Bold Strider wrote:


Champions of Irori can't be a Quiggong Monk due to giving up Still Mind and they are the best monks.

Champions of Irori aren't really monks. Same deal with Sacred Fist. In terms of optimization, every single class monk except martial artists should be Qinggong. Not all are for various reasons, but there is always at least one power that can be traded out for something like Barkskin.


You couldn't even multiclass sense I with quing gong, as you can't multiclass monk with monk.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
Hawktitan wrote:

That just seems ridiculous to me. That basically means every single monk in existence should be a Quinggong.

Was the intent to 'patch' the core monk with this archetype? If not then I have a hard time believing that this actually is supposed to work that way.

Yes, every single monk in existence except the martial artist should be Qinggong.

I can't speak to intent, but it has been clarified by FAQ that Qinggong does indeed stack with everything.

And that would mean that a core Monk is effectively a Qinggong Monk who opted not to replace any of his default abilities -- but his options still remain open for all future levels.

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