Bonded ring or familiar for wizard


Advice


Any insight? It seems like bonded rings would be better since 1 more spell is awesome. The +2 to a save (Probably fort) or +4 initiative seems weaker than one more spell.

The Exchange

There are a lot of factors that go into making that choice. If you're taking improved familiar at level 7, there's nothing more powerful than the familiar. If you're not, then you want to go bonded item.

Are you playing PFS? If so the bonded item is the only way to craft. Do you want a ring of freedom of movement as fast as possible? If so, ring is a good choice. If not, amulet will be better for you (your items never get destroyed in PFS so that's not a concern anyway).

There's no one right answer. At the very least you'll have to give us more info.


It is for PFS. I am a sloth sin wizard with the academy graduate feat and will likely be summoning a lot.

I have 7, 12, 14, 20, 10, 10 as my stats and am human with the heart of the fields racial trait. I am presently level 3 but it's a GM baby.

Feats I have or intend to take :
PFS: SF Conjuration
H: Augment Summons
1: Academy Graduate
3: Superior Summons
5: Improved Initiative
5B: GSF Conjuration
7: Dimensional Agility
9: Toughness
10B: Extend Spell
11: Quicken spell

I was thinking on crafting a ring of invisibility if I got it since you can be invisible and summon.


I think an Arcane Bonded Item is much better than a Familiar in PFS, as they cannot activate magic items in society play.

Two things off the bat: Take a look at 'Evolved Summons' trait in the ACG, and Heart of the Fields is banned in PFS (just pick up Crafter's Fortune as a level 1 spell instead).

I think ring is the way to go. As you have to wait until level 7 to craft it anyway (which co-incides nicely with the fame requirements), you have time to consider what to make. I am choosing the same bonded item for my Arcanist in PFS.

Good options:

-Ring of Protection +3 or even +4 (plus you can craft lesser versions while you wait for fame/gold and upgrade them as new ones come online for availability)
-Ring of Invisibility
-Ring of Freedom of Movement (just concerned it comes on too late and costs too much leaving me with less other toys.

Maximized fame by level 7 gives you an item up to 23k value, so either of the first two are solid options you may craft immediately at level 7.


I would suggest taking the familiar. Aside from the many possibilities it opens in terms of roleplay, a familiar can be really useful. It allows you to roll most skill checks twice, and once you can communicate with it (either by leveling, or by getting the Raven or Parrot), you can effectively roll your knowledge skills twice, as well. They give fun bonuses, some of which are excellent, some of which are lackluster. The improved familiars can add some very useful abilities, for easy access.

I've always loved the familiars, and when I play wizard, I always take the opportunity to get one. Mechanically useful and lots of roleplaying goodness. How can you go wrong?! :D

-Nearyn


Nearyn wrote:
. . . I've always loved the familiars, and when I play wizard, I always take the opportunity to get one. Mechanically useful and lots of roleplaying goodness. How can you go wrong?! :D . . . .

I agree with this. Since your ranks are their ranks, anything you can try, the can help with. So you aren't just getting a +2 to perception and sense motive with the alertness feat, you're getting a +4 more than half the time statistically (better if your familiar has a wisdom bonus), and it gets better as you level.

At low levels, pick a shtick and work it. Flying Familiar? Drop tanglefoot bags, alchemist fires, and caltrops on an enemy. Tiny and natural stealth? Get that little weasel picking pockets. Viper or scorpion? Milk that venom for the fighter-type's weapons... or sell it. Have fun. :)


Fearspect wrote:

I think an Arcane Bonded Item is much better than a Familiar in PFS, as they cannot activate magic items in society play.

Two things off the bat: Take a look at 'Evolved Summons' trait in the ACG, and Heart of the Fields is banned in PFS (just pick up Crafter's Fortune as a level 1 spell instead).

I think ring is the way to go. As you have to wait until level 7 to craft it anyway (which co-incides nicely with the fame requirements), you have time to consider what to make. I am choosing the same bonded item for my Arcanist in PFS.

Good options:

-Ring of Protection +3 or even +4 (plus you can craft lesser versions while you wait for fame/gold and upgrade them as new ones come online for availability)
-Ring of Invisibility
-Ring of Freedom of Movement (just concerned it comes on too late and costs too much leaving me with less other toys.

Maximized fame by level 7 gives you an item up to 23k value, so either of the first two are solid options you may craft immediately at level 7.

Well I didn't see that was not allowed. That's unfortunate.

I intend to make a ring of invisibility.

The evolved summon monster feat is nuts good. This is likely what my new list looks like.

PFS: SF Conjuration
H: Augment Summons
1: Academy Graduate
3: Evolved Summon Monster
5: Superior Summons
5B: GSF Conjuration
7: Evolved Summon Monster
9: Evolved Summon Monster
10B: Quicken Spell
11: Evolved Summon Monster

That feat is stupid good. Claws on earth elementals. 15 foot reach on ettins, my glob it's strong.


Don't forget magic attack as an evolution.

The Exchange

Fearspect wrote:
I think an Arcane Bonded Item is much better than a Familiar in PFS, as they cannot activate magic items in society play.

This isn't exactly correct. Improved familiars with hands and languages can activate wands and some ioun stones. Since the reason you get familiars are for wands, it's still generally the more powerful option.


From the Pathfinder Society FAQ:

Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?

Quote:
It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.

The Exchange

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Fearspect wrote:

From the Pathfinder Society FAQ:

Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?

Quote:
It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.

Why don't you try reading the ENTIRE FAQ before you go spreading false information?

Here's a quote by Mike Brock: "No. The only activated item that can be used (with the exception of ioun stones) by a select list of improved familiars is a wand."


It's hardly false information to link to the PFS FAQ.

I acknowledge that I missed a post less than two weeks ago buried in an obscure thread...

OP: If this does get added to the FAQ, I will be going with a familiar instead of an arcane bond for PFS.


You guys don't think being perma invis is better than being able to wand something?

Silver Crusade

Take a bonded item, make it a necklace, and eventually turn it into an Amulet of Spell Mastery. It doesn't give you 1 extra spell, it gives you up to 7!!!

Also, a couple of things:

1. Certain improved familiars can use wands.
2. Evolved Summons is illegal for PFS.


I think perma invis is a huge benefit. The comparison is this:

1) 20000g for the Ring, Familiar and access to improved familiar for wands (at level 7)

2) 10000g for the Ring (at level 7), cast one spell from your list per day.

Really you just have to compare the benefits and decide which is best for you.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Take a bonded item, make it a necklace, and eventually turn it into an Amulet of Spell Mastery. It doesn't give you 1 extra spell, it gives you up to 7!!!

Also, a couple of things:

1. Certain improved familiars can use wands.
2. Evolved Summons is illegal for PFS.

Is 1 better than perma invis? you save 10,000 gold on it and gain effectively a super peal of power which at 7th would be 16,000 + whatever the gold value of being able to take any spell is.

2) Nope

Quote:
Feats: all feats on pages 137–159 are legal for play, except Animal Soul, Divine Protection, Evolved Companion, and Spirited Gift.

Silver Crusade

You're right. I was confusing Evolved Summon with Evolved Companion. I knew it was one of the Evolved feats that was illegal and I was going off of memory.

As for the amulet vs ring, there are situations where being invisible won't be a benefit. Now of course you can just take the ring off for those situations, but I think I'd rather the extra 6 levels of spells prepared.

Sczarni

As this character is for PFS, they can get more spells to work with through Mnemonic Enhancer provided the scenario isn't one where they have to rush out the door without prep. Once you can cast ME, pretty much state your Wizard always fills ALL his 4th level slots with it in preparation of getting a Society job. Then after the briefing, the night before the mission you use each casting to get 3 levels of spells that will last 12 or so hours the next day (base 24, minus 8 for rest, subtract casting and prep times, etc. A Ring of Sustenance is a great investment for this...)


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
As for the amulet vs ring, there are situations where being invisible won't be a benefit. Now of course you can just take the ring off for those situations, but I think I'd rather the extra 6 levels of spells prepared.

It's a standard action to turn on or off invisibility for 3 minutes.

Quote:
"By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell."

I can be invisible all day if I keep reactivating it. Along side overland flight this makes me nigh unhittable without true seeing (basically devils).

I will admit 11k for a 6th level spell slot is pretty sexy but I'm not entirely sure if it's comparable to not being able to die. What would you do with 6 spell levels that would be better than perma invis?

Silver Crusade

Be a wizard. A wizard's job is to be prepared for any contingency. Perpetual invisibility does not help you prepare for contingencies, but 6 extra levels of spells might.

Liberty's Edge

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Be a wizard. A wizard's job is to be prepared for any contingency. Perpetual invisibility does not help you prepare for contingencies, but 6 extra levels of spells might.

Disagree - perpetual invisibility gives you assurance that your first action in combat doesn't have to be casting/acting in a way to prevent the bad guys from murdering you. It also allows you the freedom to scout ahead for the party more effectively. You may not get as much versatility (although I'd suggest that not having to reserve a couple of spell slots for vanish/invis is almost as valuable as having 6 levels available) but you're probably more effective in a fight.

Obviously it's a playstyle choice and different people will prioritize different things. I just like always-on effects.

Silver Crusade

It is for PFS. I am a sloth sin wizard with the academy graduate feat and will likely be summoning a lot.

If by "sloth sin wizard", you mean "Thassilonian Wizard" from Inner Sea Magic, that is not legal for PFS. At least as far as I can tell.

And if it is now legal, I know what my next character is.

Liberty's Edge

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Brad McDowell wrote:

It is for PFS. I am a sloth sin wizard with the academy graduate feat and will likely be summoning a lot.

If by "sloth sin wizard", you mean "Thassilonian Wizard" from Inner Sea Magic, that is not legal for PFS. At least as far as I can tell.

And if it is now legal, I know what my next character is.

There's a boon in a certain Season 4 scenario that makes it legal.


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I'd go with the ring, just 'cause familiars are a pain in the butt.


Amulet of Spell Mastery you could make at 3rd level.
The ring of invisibility you can't make till 7th.

Read the Ring of Invsibility's description:

Quote:

Ring of Invisibility

Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot ring; Price 20,000 gp; Weight —By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell.

So you have to activate it (standard action) and then you benefit from invisibility as the spell (which lasts 3 minutes because of the caster level 3 and ends when you attack).

While this is nice for when the party is expecting a fight or for your wizard being able to run away, it doesn't really help during the fight.

A Amulet of Spell Master would allow you to memorize an additional 6 spell levels (Mage Armor, Air Bubble, Acid Arrow x2) and you could get it at 3rd level.

And if you think you'll just activate it every 3 minutes all day long. Well expect the DM to be picky. Remember while invisible you can't see yourself either. Expect the DM to do things like having you make acrobatics checks to see if you fall/trip (because you can't see where you're stepping).

The Exchange

Familiars give you the action economy of a summoner. Bonded items give you a slight bit more utility and can POSSIBLY save you up to 20,000 gold. Both are good choices, but if you're asking for the one that's, generally speaking, the more powerful option, it will be familiar every time.


DrSwordopolis wrote:
Brad McDowell wrote:

It is for PFS. I am a sloth sin wizard with the academy graduate feat and will likely be summoning a lot.

If by "sloth sin wizard", you mean "Thassilonian Wizard" from Inner Sea Magic, that is not legal for PFS. At least as far as I can tell.

And if it is now legal, I know what my next character is.

There's a boon in a certain Season 4 scenario that makes it legal.

We may have killed a certain wizard and after disabling his power down conditions.

Quote:
A Amulet of Spell Master would allow you to memorize an additional 6 spell levels (Mage Armor, Air Bubble, Acid Arrow x2) and you could get it at 3rd level.

1) None of the spells you listed are very useful

2) You can't get it before 7 due to fame.

Quote:
Familiars give you the action economy of a summoner. Bonded items give you a slight bit more utility and can POSSIBLY save you up to 20,000 gold. Both are good choices, but if you're asking for the one that's, generally speaking, the more powerful option, it will be familiar every time.

Won't familiars cost you more money though? Like you lose an effective highest level spell and have to buy a reasonably powerful wand for it to throw about.


Well, with level 1 wands being basically free, you could definitely get some use out of some key ones at low level (emergency heals, prot evil, shield, silent image is always great, even grease or magic missile thrown around can make a decent difference). This method could cost you next to nothing (though some level 2 spells exist that, when wanded, can really make a difference over the course of 50 casts).

Keep in mind that the familiars (with improved familiar) aren't exactly slouches, and really help by adding to your action economy. If you do not use your familiar creatively, they are wasted and you would be better off with a ring every time.


Undone wrote:
Won't familiars cost you more money though? Like you lose an effective highest level spell and have to buy a reasonably powerful wand for it to throw about.

A wand of Ill Omen is a good choice if your familiar has nothing else to do.


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Broken record alert:

Familiars + Improved Familiar are really that great.

However, you need to know how to use them. I'm strongly considering working on a mini-guide for making the most of your familiar. It is surprising how few players know the tricks to make them work so well for you.

Here's some basic tips:

1) Always improve at level 7. I think Mephit is pretty much the best choice possible for improved familiar. (personally I like Dust, you get perfect fly, blur and wind wall, great combo!)

2) Get your familiar some nets (small size + net = entangled condition for free on medium or smaller sized enemies, goodbye charge attacks and reflex saves)

3) Tanglefoot bags and smokesticks too (I think the uses here are pretty obvious, but let me just give an example: My character throws X (horrible debilitating spell) on the enemy, and my familiar throws a smokestick in front of me so the horrible enemy cannot see me to take revenge)

4) Max a few skills: Healing, Use Magic Device, Stealth. No, your wizard probably won't use these skills, but your familiar will! BTW get him a healing kit. Ally gets poisoned? Familiar goes with healing kit and fixes him up.

5) Wands. Yep, these are great by mid level (use the option in Advanced races to switch your familiars feat to Skill Focus: Use Magic Device for additional bonuses). Some obvious wands: Remove Fear, Protection from X, Delay Poison (Ranger wand), Lesser Restoration (Paladin wand), invigorate, silent image, Entangle, Faerie Fire, keen senses, Obscuring mist, Enlarge Person, Bless...these are all level 1 wands (and don't necessarily need 50 charges)

Treat your familiar like an extra action and reach spell put together every round. I generally use my familiars for light buffing/debuffing and then as a combat medic when party members get poisoned/diseased/frightened/panicked/exhausted/fatigued/mind controlled/ability drained etc.

The Exchange

Everything Treantmonk said is great. Some of it doesn't quite work in PFS, though (if that's a consideration). Personally, I get a few wands for 2 PA each (so practically free). My typical list includes cure light wounds, infernal healing, enlarge person, grease, protection from evil, and vanish. All of these are great spells, but things you don't want to spend actions on (except grease, which is used to ready an action in order to prevent charges).

At later levels I also buy a wand of cure moderate wounds and a wand of haste, for much the same reason. Aside from that, he's an invisible scout, a second skill check, a way to detect good and magic without the enemy knowing, and an aid another when necessary.

I, of course, prefer the imp over the mephits. They all have positives and negatives, though, but they're all better than a bonded object except in rare cases.


Both are good, and I use both. But bonded item + diabolist gets you both (kind of, though the imp is technically an animal companion), but thats not until 10th level.


Treantmonk wrote:


However, you need to know how to use them. I'm strongly considering working on a mini-guide for making the most of your familiar. It is surprising how few players know the tricks to make them work so well for you.

Here's some basic tips:

1) Always improve at level 7. I think Mephit is pretty much the best choice possible for improved familiar. (personally I like Dust, you get perfect fly, blur and wind wall, great combo!)

I'd like to see your guide, but what makes Mephit so good? Faerie Dragon seems like the best because they have UMD +9 and 3 Sorcerer Levels so they don't need UMD to many wands. Not to mention they also have Greater Invisibility, Telepathy, etc.

The Exchange

Mephits don't bother about your alignment, have cool slas. And you can toss fireballs around a steam mephit, she wont complain. Breath weapon for sickened too (used to be better when everyone thought hd scaled).

You never know when your imp familiar may decide to betray you, and also having an imp familiar tends to irritate paladins for some reason. Apparently they are allergic to imps and break out in sneezes. If they sneeze too much, they may lose their balance and fall.

Good familiars on the other hand, spend too much time sermonizing, and have really weak stomachs. The moment you planar bind a couple of bone devils to do your bidding, poof, off they go. Also may not take too well to intimidation tactics (or even torture) I've seen some parties use.


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Demoyn wrote:


I, of course, prefer the imp over the mephits. They all have positives and negatives, though, but they're all better than a bonded object except in rare cases.

Imps have better special abilities than Mephits have. I prefer Mephits because of the size issue. Can a tiny creature use a wand? Can a tiny creature throw a tanglefoot bag? Can a tiny creature carry a haversack full of goodies?

As a small creature a mephit can do all those things (since Halflings and Gnomes can)

(note I'm not looking for debate on those questions, the debate would need to be with your GM)

Jeff W wrote:
what makes Mephit so good? Faerie Dragon seems like the best because they have UMD +9 and 3 Sorcerer Levels so they don't need UMD to many wands. Not to mention they also have Greater Invisibility, Telepathy, etc.

I totally agree about abilities, same point as above though. Faerie Dragons are tiny, Mephits are small.

If your GM is clear that they will allow a tiny creature to carry a bunch of equipment and use it, then Faerie Dragon is the way to go.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just remember the more of a threat your familiar becomes, the more of a legitimate target it becomes as well.


I disagree, LazarX. If the big boss wants to spend his actions attempting to make the familiar a target, then he deserves exactly what will happen to him when he wasted his action(s) not dealing with the arcane caster (and presumably the rest of the party) also in the area.

Treatmonk is suggesting to make the familiar the ultimate party support character, skulking in the back and fixing little problems, maybe tossing out a wand spell or SLA.

Tipping your hand to attack a familiar when far more legitimate threats exist in the same area is supremely stupid, and probably the last action he will make other than rolling saves. I can think of few other things, as an arcane caster, that would so thoroughly prompt me to 'go nova' faster than a party member (or familiar) being legitimately threatened while I am left alone to my devices.

TL;DR: A targetted familiar is basically a free win.


My personal preference is the familiar, besides the advantages gained from having a normal familiar, at lower levels it is fairly useful for fighting a few little grunts, like goblins, while it does get outclassed eventually, at level 7 you can take the improved familiar feat, which provides some badass familiar options, imps, cassissians, tide pool dragons, oh my!


Plus the ones with hands can have UMD, and the warming can use scrolls, so you can fire your spell from two fronts. Which is better then a ring!


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Treantmonk wrote:
However, you need to know how to use them. I'm strongly considering working on a mini-guide for making the most of your familiar.

In case there were any doubt... If you did decide to work on such a guide, it would be read, used, and much appreciated. :)


Can a familiar even cast ill omen? If so WOW that's really good. Like really really good.

Grand Lodge

markofbane wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:
However, you need to know how to use them. I'm strongly considering working on a mini-guide for making the most of your familiar.
In case there were any doubt... If you did decide to work on such a guide, it would be read, used, and much appreciated. :)

One hundred percent agreed. Treantmonk, I am new, and found that the guides you made (as well as the ones inspired by you) to be wonderful sources of information so far. Thank you so much for all you do for this community.

Hmm

The Exchange

Treantmonk wrote:
Demoyn wrote:


I, of course, prefer the imp over the mephits. They all have positives and negatives, though, but they're all better than a bonded object except in rare cases.

Imps have better special abilities than Mephits have. I prefer Mephits because of the size issue. Can a tiny creature use a wand? Can a tiny creature throw a tanglefoot bag? Can a tiny creature carry a haversack full of goodies?

As a small creature a mephit can do all those things (since Halflings and Gnomes can)

(note I'm not looking for debate on those questions, the debate would need to be with your GM)

The one you missed is that small creatures can threaten (and thus flank), which is sometimes very important. However, I solve all the other questions by just buying my wands in tiny form to begin with. ;)

The Exchange

Undone wrote:
Can a familiar even cast ill omen? If so WOW that's really good. Like really really good.

We're talking about familiars casting spells through wands so, yes. A familiar can use ANY wand, because they're doing it with the Use Magic Device skill anyway.


LazarX wrote:
Just remember the more of a threat your familiar becomes, the more of a legitimate target it becomes as well.

Even with item use, a familiar should be the least threatening member of the party. They can be hit by AOEs of course. Steps should be taken to protect one's familiar (Mage Armor, False Life, Toughness feat, Invisibility, cheap protective equipment, etc).

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