| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I know this topic has been brushed over a few times, but I did not find any full conversions for the Athasian bard into Pathfinder. I originally considered just designing a bard archetype, but the loss of all spell casting is a bit beyond an archetype's scope. The bard version on Athas.org is good, but seems very weak in combat, even more so than the rogue. While the performance abilities are strong, the loss of additional buffs from spells takes a huge toll from the bard's utility.
This version is basically a mash up of the original bard, with rogue/ninja tricks tossed in to offset the loss of spells. The theme of Dark Sun bards was always that of performer-by-day/assassin-by-night, so the poison abilities are prominent.
Concerns: While this bard has songs, tricks and poison, I'm still afraid it comes up weak in the combat department. Rogues and ninjas have sneak attack to offset (a little) of their flaws, but sneak attack didn't seem appropriate here. Rogues/ninjas are stealthy types, while bards seem to favor bluffs and misdirection. I'm considering ways to buff that theme here.
Any and all suggestions are much appreciated!!
Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills: The bard's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Base Attack Bonus: 3/4 progression.
Saves: Reflex and Will good.
Level / Special
1st /Bardic knowledge, bardic performance, countersong, distraction, fascinate, inspire courage +1, poison use
2nd / Versatile performance, well-versed
3rd / Inspire competence +2
4th / Trade secret
5th / Inspire courage +2, lore master 1/day
6th / Suggestion, versatile performance
7th / Inspire competence +3, trade secret
8th / Dirge of doom
9th / Inspire greatness
10th / Jack-of-all-trades, trade secret, versatile performance
11th / Inspire competence +4, inspire courage +3, lore master 2/day
12th / Soothing performance
13th / Trade secret
14th / Frightening tune, versatile performance
15th / Inspire competence +5, inspire heroics
16th / Trade secret
17th / Inspire courage +4, lore master 3/day
18th / Mass suggestion, versatile performance
19th / Inspire competence +6, trade secret
20th / Deadly performance
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the bard.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bard is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the bard’s friend, crossbow (any), garrote, greater blowgun, whip and widow’s knife. Bards are also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Bardic Knowledge (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Bardic Performance: Per the standard bard class feature.
Poison Use: At 1st level, a bard is trained in the use of poison and cannot accidentally poison herself when applying poison to a weapon.
Versatile Performance (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Well-versed (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Trade Secret: As a bard gains more experience and notoriety, they gain access to secrets of their clandestine trade. Starting at 4th level, a bard learns one trade secret. She gains one additional trade secret at 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th and 19th level. Unless otherwise noted, a bard cannot select an individual trade secret more than once.
- Accurate (Ex): A bard with this ability can ignore 1 point of natural armor bonus to AC or 1 point of armor bonus to AC. This trade secret may be chosen more than once, and its effects stack.
- Assassinate (Ex): A bard with this trade secret can kill foes that are unable to defend themselves. To attempt to assassinate a target, the bard must first study her target for 1 round as a standard action. On the following round, if the bard makes an attack against the target and the target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC, the attack has the additional effect of possibly killing the target. This attempt automatically fails if the target recognizes the bard as an enemy. If the attack is successful and the target of this attack fails a Fortitude save, it dies. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the bard's level + the bard's Charisma modifier. If the save is successful, the target still takes damage as normal, but it is immune to that bard's assassinate ability for 1 day. The bard must be at least 10th level before selecting this trade secret.
- Blinding Bomb (Ex): Whenever the bard throws a smoke bomb, all living creatures in the cloud must make a Fortitude save or be blinded by the black smoke for 1d4 rounds. The DC of this saving throw is equal to 10 + 1/2 the bard's level + the bard's Charisma modifier. This trade secret cannot be combined with a choking bomb, but the bard can combine a blinding bomb with a poison bomb. The bard must have the choking bomb trade secret before selecting this trade secret. The bard must be at least 10th level before selecting this trade secret.
- Choking Bomb (Ex): Whenever a bard throws a smoke bomb, all living creatures in the resulting cloud must make a Fortitude save or become staggered by the choking black smoke for 1d4 rounds. The DC of this saving throw is equal to 10 + 1/2 the bard's level + the bard's Charisma modifier. The bard can decide to create an ordinary smoke bomb or add poison to this smoke bomb as normal. The bard must have the poison bomb trade secret before selecting this trade secret.
- Combat Trick: A bard that selects this trade secret gains a bonus combat feat.
- Defensive Roll (Ex): With this trade secret, the bard can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per day, when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the bard can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the bard must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC=damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll—if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can't use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll. The bard must be at least 10th level before selecting this trade secret.
- Deft Poisoner: A bard with this trade secret can apply poison to a weapon as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity.
- Evasion (Ex): A bard can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the bard is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless bard does not gain the benefit of evasion. The bard must be at least 10th level before selecting this trade secret.
- Feat: A bard may gain any feat she qualifies for in place of a trade secret. The bard must be at least 10th level before selecting this trade secret.
- Finesse Strike: A bard that selects this trade secret gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
- Forgotten Secret (Ex): A bard with this ability can recall one trade secret she heard of in passing or in her early apprenticeship. When she uses this ability, she selects one trade secret that she does not know and can use that trade secret for a number of rounds equal to her level. This ability can be used once per day, and the bard must meet and adhere to the selected trade secret's prerequisites and restrictions.
- Improvised Materials: A bard with this trade secret can craft poisons from raw materials at hand instead of relying on specific ingredients. Doing so increases the Craft (poisonmaking) check DC by 5 but otherwise has no effect on the poison's potency.
- Major Magic (Sp): A bard with this trade secret gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the wizard spell list two times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the bard's level. The save DC for this spell is 11 + the bard's Intelligence modifier. The bard must have an Intelligence of at least 11 to select this talent. A bard must have the minor magic rogue talent before choosing this talent. This spell-like ability uses the rules for preserving and defiling magic.
- Minor Magic (Sp): A bard with this trade secret gains the ability to cast a 0-level spell from the wizard spell list. This spell can be cast three times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the bard's level. The save DC for this spell is 10 + the bard's Intelligence modifier. The bard must have an Intelligence of at least 10 to select this talent. This spell-like ability uses the rules for preserving and defiling magic.
- Poison Bomb (Ex): Whenever the bard throws a smoke bomb, she can decide to include 1 dose of any inhaled poison she possesses. This poison affects all creatures in the smoke and lasts as long as the smoke lasts. She must pay for the poison normally. The bard must have the smoke bomb trade secret before selecting this trick.
- Poison Resistance (Ex): A bard with this trade secret receives a +4 bonus to saving throws against poisons.
- Quick Thinking (Ex): A bard with this trade secret is trained to react quickly, and gains a +2 bonus on Initiative checks. This trade secret may be chosen up to three times, and its effects stack.
- Scorpion's Touch (Ex): This ability adds +1 to the DC of all poisons applied by the bard. This trade secret may be chosen more than once, and its effects stack.
- Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability represents the bard's ability to wriggle free from magical effects that would otherwise control or compel her. If a bard with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw. The bard must be at least 13th level before selecting this trade secret.
- Smoke Bomb (Ex): This ability allows a bard to throw a smoke bomb that creates a cloud of smoke with a 15-foot radius. This acts like the smoke from a smokestick. The bard can center this smoke on herself, or throw the bomb as a ranged touch attack with a range of 20 feet. Using this ability is a standard action, and can used a number of times a day equal to 3 + the bard's Intelligence modifier.
- Ventriloquism (Su): As a swift action, the bard can throw her voice as if using the spell ventriloquism. She can use this ability for a cumulative total of 1 minute per bard level, per day. Each individual use of the ability consumes a minimum of 1 minute.
Lore Master (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Jack-of-All-Trades (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Another take on the theme... While the first version was a bard with rogue/ninja style tricks, this one leans more towards the poisoner side of things and falls in between alchemist and magus. Without spells, it has less overall utility than the original bard, or the alchemist or magus, but has a bit more combat power.
I'm suggesting a slightly new mechanic here with the 'venom strike'. I think it balances okay, but I'm aware there might be room for abuse.
I also see that I'm crossing MAD streams by using INT modifiers. That's certainly open for debate. Around poison and such, bard's should have some smarts, and not be Elan-type morons!
Opinions and suggestions requested! =D
Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills: The bard's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Base Attack Bonus: 3/4 progression.
Saves: Reflex and Will good.
Level / Special
1st / Bardic knowledge, bardic performance, countersong, distraction, fascinate, inspire courage +1, venom strike 1d6
2nd / Poison use, poison resistance +2, versatile performance, well-versed
3rd / Inspire competence +2, venom strike 2d6
4th / Poison resistance +4, venom refinement
5th / Inspire courage +2, lore master 1/day, venom strike 3d6
6th / Suggestion, poison resistance +6, versatile performance
7th / Inspire competence +3, venom refinement, venom strike 4d6
8th / Dirge of doom, poison resistance +8
9th / Inspire greatness, venom strike 5d6
10th / Jack-of-all-trades, poison immunity, venom refinement, versatile performance
11th / Inspire competence +4, inspire courage +3, lore master 2/day, venom strike 6d6
12th / Soothing performance
13th / Venom refinement, venom strike 7d6
14th / Frightening tune, versatile performance
15th / Inspire competence +5, inspire heroics, venom strike 8d6
16th / Venom refinement
17th / Inspire courage +4, lore master 3/day, venom strike 9d6
18th / Mass suggestion, versatile performance
19th / Inspire competence +6, venom refinement, venom strike 10d6
20th / Deadly performance
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the bard.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A bard is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the bard’s friend, crossbow (any), garrote, greater blowgun, whip and widow’s knife. Bards are also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Bardic Knowledge (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Bardic Performance: Per the standard bard class feature.
Venom Strike (Su): A number of times per day equal to class level plus Intelligence modifier, the bard can quickly apply a potent venom to their weapon as a swift action. The next time that weapon hits in combat, the target takes an extra 1d6 damage. The damage from venom strike increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered bard level. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike. The venom remains potent for 1 minute per bard level, or until the first hit is made. Any creature that is immune to poison is also immune to venom strike. Poisons and venom strike cannot be used simultaneously on the same weapon.
Poison Resistance (Ex): At 2nd level, a bard gains a +2 bonus on all saving throws against poison. This bonus increases to +4 at 5th level, and then again to +6 at 8th level. At 10th level, a bard becomes completely immune to poison.
Poison Use: At 2nd level, a bard is trained in the use of poison and cannot accidentally poison herself when applying poison to a weapon.
Versatile Performance (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Well-versed (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Venom Refinements (Su): As a bard gains more experience and notoriety, they gain access to secrets of their clandestine trade and become more deadly poisoners. Starting at 4th level, a bard learns one venom refinement, which can enhance their venom strike or crafted poisons. She gains one additional venom refinement at 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th and 19th level. Unless otherwise noted, a bard cannot select an individual venom refinement more than once. Any venoms that replicate spell effects use a DC equal to 10 + the spell level + the bard's Charisma modifier.
- Acidic Venom: When the bard uses venom strike, she can choose to have it inflict acid damage. Creatures hit by an acidic venom strike take an additional 1d6 points of acid damage 1 round later.
- Bard's Cocktail: The bard has learned how to combine venoms and poisons on the same weapon and maintain the potency of each. Venom strike can be used on a weapon coated with poison.
- Dazing Venom: When the bard uses venom strike, she can choose to have it daze the target instead of dealing additional damage. Creatures hit by dazing venom are subject to the effect of a daze monster spell. The bard must be at least 4th level before selecting this refinement.
- Befuddling Venom: When the bard uses venom strike, she can choose to have it confuse the target instead of dealing additional damage. Creatures hit by befuddling venom are subject to the effect of a confusion spell, using the bard's level as the caster level. The bard must be at least 7th level before selecting this refinement.
- Concentrate Poison: The bard can combine two doses of the same poison to increase their effects. This requires two doses of the poison and 1 minute of concentration. When completed, the alchemist has one dose of poison. The poison's frequency is extended by 50% and the save DC increases by +2. This poison must be used within 1 hour of its creation or it is ruined.
- Dispelling Venom: When the bard uses venom strike, she can choose to have it dispel magic effects instead of dealing additional damage. Creatures hit by dispelling venom are subject to a targeted dispel magic spell, using the bard's level as the caster level. This cannot be used to target a specific spell effect. The bard must be at least 7th level before selecting this refinement.
- Maximized Venom: Once per day, the bard can enhance one use of venom strike to deal maximum damage. This ability consumes two uses of venom strike. If the bard also possesses the venom burst refinement, that damage is also maximized (assuming a critical hit is confirmed). A bard must be at least 13th level before selecting this refinement.
- Paralyzing Venom: When the bard uses venom strike, she can choose to have it paralyze the target instead of dealing additional damage. Creatures hit by paralyzing venom are subject to the effect of a hold monster spell, using the bard's level as the caster level. A bard must be at least 10th level before selecting this refinement.
- Poison Conversion: By spending 1 minute, the bard can convert 1 dose of poison from its current type (contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury) to another type. For example, the bard can convert a dose of Small centipede poison (an injury poison) to an inhaled poison. This process requires an alchemy lab. A bard must be at least 7th level before selecting this discovery.
- Sleep Venom: When the bard uses venom strike, she can choose to have it put the target to sleep instead of dealing additional damage. Creatures hit by sleep venom are subject to the effect of a sleep spell, using the bard's level as the caster level.
- Venom Burst : When the bard confirms a critical hit while using venom strike, the target takes an extra 1d10 points of damage. If the weapon's critical multiplier is ×3, add an extra 2d10 points of damage instead, and if the multiplier is ×4, add an extra 3d10 points. This damage follows the same restrictions as that done by venom strike. A bard must be at least 7th level before selecting this refinement.
- Venom Grenade: As a standard action, the bard can hurl a dose of her venom with a ranged touch attack, range of 20 feet. If the venom grenade hits, the target takes the venom damage. This ability consumes one use of venom strike, and cannot be enhanced with other venom refinements.
- Venom Nova: The bard can use venom strike on each attack of a full attack action. Each iterative attack consumes one use of venom strike. A bard must be at least 10th level before selecting this refinement.
Lore Master (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
Jack-of-All-Trades (Ex): Per the standard bard class feature.
I had forgotten about the DS bard. If I were to re-write this for PF, I would expand the "assassin" theme a bit by making this less of a bard/ninja and more of a bard/alchemist. I would do a major overhaul to the Bardic Performance by playing down abilities like Inspire Courage and playing up abilities like Fascinate.
I had forgotten about the DS bard. If I were to re-write this for PF, I would expand the "assassin" theme a bit by making this less of a bard/ninja and more of a bard/alchemist. I would do a major overhaul to the Bardic Performance by playing down abilities like Inspire Courage and playing up abilities like Fascinate.
Yeah, the 2nd version above is pretty heavily influenced by the alchemist. You may recognize several of the refinements as re-worded discoveries, and venom strike follows the bomb progression almost verbatim.
I see where you're coming from on modifying the performance abilities, but they're pretty well established, power-wise. They, if nothing else, can remain familiar to players used to the standard bard! =D
Ah. I only looked over the first one.
I like the venom strike idea , but it definitely seems a lot less versatility than the first variant or even a regular. Even an alchemist has bombs AND extracts.
Or maybe it's just that I liked the the smoke bombs and poison crafting from the first one:).
I've always struggled with the "assassin" as an occupation for the Athasian bard, but other than poison, they really don't have any cruch that supports it. It was similar in 2nd ed, with the difference being the expansion of the "thief" abilities.
I'd also consider just incorporating some of the archetype abilities into the "core" class, sorta like Ciaran mentions. Bring down the "help others" abilities, and up the disable and distract. Consider demagogue and street performer abilities.
The more I've been thinking about the 2nd version, the more those same concerns have come to mind. Comparing the basic bard and alchemist shows a lot of parity in abilities.
For comparison:
Sooo... The Athasian Bard v2 loses the big spells advantage, but gains some direct combat power with venom strikes, akin to the alchemist bombs.
Dark Sun fluff doesn't really support the bard keeping his spells. Of course, it doesn't really argue for alchemy either, but that's an easier leap for supposed 'poison masters'.
One could argue giving the Athasian bard alchemist extracts, but I think that might nudge him too far into OP land. Perhaps if I drop the venom strike and plug in some normal poison crafting/use abilities, the extracts would work well in the place of the normal bard spell list?
Regarding the archetypes... almost every bard archetype replaces specific song abilities. I'd like to keep the base Athasian bard with the basic songs so that a number of archetypes can still be plugged in, including demagogue, street performer, dervish dancer, etc.
Basically, keeps the versatility options open...
You could reflavor an alchemist's extracts to be magical fruit. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Athasian bards made magical fruit.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
The vague idea I had for an Athasian bard was simply to replace the spellcasting with alchemist extracts, toss in poison use(replacing versatile performance maybe?), and basically call it a day.
Extracts are probably slightly weaker than bard spellcasting so poison use might not even need to replace anything.
The other way I was thinking of going was to start with the alchemist, and trade out bombs for bardic performance.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Sorry for the threadromancy, but I was playing around with VMC last night and realized an unchained rogue/VMC bard might work best for a Dark Sun Bard. You get bardic knowledge and some bardic performance for the low low cost of feats. The unchained rogue already gets skill unlocks, better rogue talents, and finess/dex to damage, so it wouldn't miss the feats as much. Only thing I can't find how to give is poison use. Thoughts?