Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I just checked the description of Detect Evil. The lingering aura only occurs if the creature is destroyed. And that can only happen in the final act of the scenario, so no lingering auras there.That is correct. when I had originally said it, I meant a lingering aura <unseen floating evil that keeps pinging> rather than a Lingering Aura <game term>, (above). I find it hard to believe that not a single person, particularly out of the extra 3,000 people all focusing on Ekira, can detect evil/chaos, or the Ekira, whose primary goal in life I to destroy chaotic evil outsiders that worship demons and come from the Abyssal Worldwound, (well when she's not killing Pathfinders anyway), doesn't bother to, I don't know, look for such creature in town for the last few weeks.
Actually, she probably does. Especially since she believe the pathfinders have Demon Allies. Unfortunately for her, Demons know about detect evil too. And the creature in question has a wand of plot protection (minor spoiler beyond link.)
It is specifically stated in the side bar you are complaining about that he uses the wand every morning.
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I just checked the description of Detect Evil. The lingering aura only occurs if the creature is destroyed. And that can only happen in the final act of the scenario, so no lingering auras there.That is correct. when I had originally said it, I meant a lingering aura <unseen floating evil that keeps pinging> rather than a Lingering Aura <game term>, (above). I find it hard to believe that not a single person, particularly out of the extra 3,000 people all focusing on Ekira, can detect evil/chaos, or the Ekira, whose primary goal in life I to destroy chaotic evil outsiders that worship demons and come from the Abyssal Worldwound, (well when she's not killing Pathfinders anyway), doesn't bother to, I don't know, look for such creature in town for the last few weeks.Actually, she probably does. Especially since she believe the pathfinders have Demon Allies. Unfortunately for her, Demons know about detect evil too. And the creature in question has a wand of plot protection (minor spoiler beyond link.)
It is specifically stated in the side bar you are complaining about that he uses the wand every morning.
Clearly this is going nowhere, so lets just move along.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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What happens if the players use a forced march to get to Dawnton, can they buy themselves an extra day? What happens if they work through the night, can they get themselves an extra investigation phase that way? (At the cost of some fatigue?)As written, trying to get a partial day of investigation actually advance the Opposition Track faster. The way the Tracks work, you only really get two days before the torches and pitchforks start coming out.
Well, they get into town in the evening, so they start with a partial day. If a forced march gets them into the town in the morning, that would buy them two more investigation phases. (Though it doesn't sound like that is the limiting factor here.)
New question: When do the events triggered by the tracks occur? During the phase when something happens to provoke them? Or between phases when the PCs have gathered to share notes?
Hypothetical: Most of the PCs are at the general store, behaving in a civilized fashion. On of the PCs has gone rogue and has started a brawl at the beer garden, triggering "Neighborhood watch." Do the town toughs show up next time everyone is together? Or do they converge on the brawler?
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I've told my tables that moving at top possible speed gets them there on the third evening. They travel at the speed of plot.
Shouldn't finding a way to move faster, like exchanging speed for fatigue be considered a creative solution and thus be rewarded with an extra afternoon?
Perhaps with a survival check not to get lost while traveling at night?
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The way the Opposition Track works, the party really only has two full days before the "End game" events start kicking in. Assuming they haven't done anything else to draw attention to themselves, it's a minimum of +4 Opposition Modifier per day.
As for the Wand, there have been a couple partially charged wands in Season 5 scenarios that haven't been on the Chronicle sheet. I wonder if the Chronicle writing team has been trying to hold those for higher level scenarios.
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This module can be fun but can easily go off the rails. It helps to assume that the module will go off the rails in some manner. You're better off with a GM who is okay-ish with things going off the rails.
Bad Die roles lead to 6 false rumors, 1 true.
Breaking into the Inquisitor's room when they found the rumor that she was a succubus came out.
After failing to get an interview with the prisioners through the sheriff, using invisbility and bluffs to break into prison to talk to said prisioners (not intending to break them out, just interview).
Having sorcerer accidently locked in prision with spells running out.
Rest of party trying to free said Sorcerer. Ninja subtly, others attempting subtle.
Neigborhood watch being triggered by alchemist bomb outside sheriff's office.
Final encounter starts afternoon after they arrive.
Fortunately party had prestige to burn.
Still everyone had fun.
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When I ran this, my pic's decided to approach the sheriff when one of their daggers was stolen. Also, they used detect magic on Ekta near the end prior to fighting ekira/torvis/sheriff. Torvis does have magic items on his person.
Also, I had two very diplo heavy pic's who made the sheriff helpful almost from the beginning. It made it difficult for him to want to prosecute the pc's. They also made Ekira friendly during encounter 3.
These definitely made things a challenge for me as the GA.
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GM'd another go round tonight, this time a 4-person party, low sub-tier party: Paladin of Ragathiel, Gnome Prankster Bard, War Priest (sling) & a oracle/fighter/bard mutt. Another 3 1/2 hour game, with the first initiative (Encounter 4) at around 2 1/2 hours.
Off-book locations:
Murder Victim's 2 (Skinned Victim) House: Had crying teen girls out front for the PCs to interact with.
Murder Victim's 1 Crime Scene: Had pilgrims praying for the soul of the nameless bard from another town for the PCs to interact with.
Murder Victims' 3&4 bodies (the frame victims): Clerics of Abadar passing through town are preparing the bodies for burial as a favor the sheriff. While the PCs couldn't inspect the bodies, they got more rumor info from the Clerics who were also starting their own investigation.
Off-book skill use:
Prankster bard using his juggling/comedy skills to entertain the townfolk.
Fun fact:
Just like the last table I ran, the group self glitterdusted to reveal Torvil.
Fromper and Redward were at my table, so I'll let them chip in with any thoughts they had. I know that as a GM I was a little toasty by the end and should have taken a personal break (whereas the players took mini-breaks when their investigation location wasn't live).
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Fromper and Redward were at my table, so I'll let them chip in with any thoughts they had. I know that as a GM I was a little toasty by the end and should have taken a personal break (whereas the players took mini-breaks when their investigation location wasn't live).
Our lowest Diplomacy score was +6 (mine). Our highest Perception was +5. We had characters with the appropriate Knowledges and even Appraise, but rarely in the right place at the right time, or rolling badly when we did. With all that, we were able to gather tons of rumors but little in the way of evidence.
As we approached the end of the scenario, this left me convinced we would know exactly what was happening but have no way to prove it. In the end, everything came together, but only just (and not enough to convince Ekira). I don't know if was the mechanics of the investigation or our performance, but I felt like by the last day or so, we were just retracing our steps and hoping for something to trigger so we could move forward.
Splitting the party was somewhat frustrating. One group would learn something that would seem to be immediately useful to the other group at their current location. I struggled to keep myself from coaching a different team in what questions to ask or things to look for. In a future version of this type of scenario, it might be nice if the Society provided some kind of magic conference call device, so individuals or pairs can each lead investigations with the rest of the party providing support remotely.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Splitting the party was somewhat frustrating. One group would learn something that would seem to be immediately useful to the other group at their current location. I struggled to keep myself from coaching a different team in what questions to ask or things to look for. In a future version of this type of scenario, it might be nice if the Society provided some kind of magic conference call device, so individuals or pairs can each lead investigations with the rest of the party providing support remotely.
Something like the message cantrip? (Seriously, every party should have that spell)
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Something like the message cantrip? (Seriously, every party should have that spell)
Splitting the party was somewhat frustrating. One group would learn something that would seem to be immediately useful to the other group at their current location. I struggled to keep myself from coaching a different team in what questions to ask or things to look for. In a future version of this type of scenario, it might be nice if the Society provided some kind of magic conference call device, so individuals or pairs can each lead investigations with the rest of the party providing support remotely.
Like that, but without the range limitations.
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The message cantrip is a neutered choice in this scenario given the distances between locations and the duration of the spell. At best it can cover the distance between the general store and inn or tent city and beer garden and, in tier 4-5, would only cover the initial 50 minutes of a investigative phase.
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3 days not enuff time to investigate. Seeing how there is a beer garden.
where did all the people come from. Nearest towns 3 days away and those towns were racvished by the demon hordes.
Dalton Krunne had npc knowledge on pathfinder society being notorious for numerous murder hobo members. Was a good plan of his to get us blamed.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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That was actually the problem at our table as well.
My party got to the point where they were like "Okay, we can prove the pathfinders innocent, and we are pretty sure it was some tall guy with dark hair, but we have no clue why he is doing it, and we are not sure we can prove it. And we have run out of leads" They had got most of the rumors at that point, and the ones they didn't have they had gotten the details from the prisoners, and gotten enough true rumors to debunk the false ones they had found.
At that point, the town track was back up to 2 (after being reduced to 0 by befriending the sheriff) they had already tracked down Erika and talked to her (meaning Encounter 1 was already essentially bypassed.) The Opposition Track was at 6.
At which point everyone got really, really frustrated.
They eventually thrashed into getting the opposition track up to 8, triggering the frame job, they detected the theft and were on their way to the sheriff to warn him that another murder was happening when the murder happened. At which point they went to the sherrif, and initiated Encounter 5 by being the ones accusing Dalton.
At which point Dalton died fast, messy, and all over the place. he got tripped, tried to get up, and took so much damage from the resulting attacks of opportunity that if they had all been non lethal he would have still been dead. At which point the quasit ran as they started casting around with detect magic and powder and etc.
Every one looked at me and was like "what the hey?" No one was really satisfied by that ending.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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So obviously players don't always get the whole story that's in the scenario, but I seem to have completely missed it playing last night: What was the murderer's motivation? And what exactly was the relationship to the invisible demon?The murder's motivation is that he delights in murder and wants to corrupt Ekira. He was sent by Tancred Desimire in the hopes that he'd disrupt the relations between the Society and its allies.
As for the demon, both Krunne and Torvil are fervent Shax worshipers who happened to meet up and decide that working together would be a good idea.
The big problem is that none of that is likely to come out in the scenario.
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It's actually a pet peeve of mine when there's interesting backstory to a module / scenario that there's no way of the players actually finding out without the DM going out of their way to explain it. I'll probably add a "ubiquitous Murderer's Journal" either found on Krunne or in his room for plot exposition
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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To be fair, it is kind of hard to do.
Torvil is almost certain to escape, and Krunne would rather die than talk, which means that if you play them as savvy and sophisticated plotters, it is almost impossible for them to be traced back.
Actually, both of the two Desmire sabatoge stories I've GMed had this same issue. It would be nice if there was some indication to the players that this is a part of something bigger.
Even just a partially finished letter on his person
D-
All goes according to plan, the Pathfinders have not discovered my involvement as you feared they would. And by the time they do it will be too late for them. I go now to ensure their demise.
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Yeah, we had fun at our table just because Sammy's a fun GM, and we were having fun RPing all sorts of excuses to get people to talk to us, but we really felt like the investigation didn't succeed. If the killer hadn't attacked us at the end, we wouldn't have had any proof that he was behind it.
That was actually my biggest problem with Murder on the Throaty Mermaid, too.
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There's a decent amount of proof you can gather before the idiot attacks, though. You can get the letters, the button, the fact that the hanged body wasn't killed on the farm but was actually killed much earlier somewhere else, and the testimony of the General Store owner about the height of the attacker.
Yeah, we got all of that. But that just seemed to prove that there was more going on, not specifically what or who. I didn't think it was enough at the time.
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I think I should point out on pp7 it gives DCs for making bluff, disguise or stealth to avoid advancing the town sentiment tracker. I also suggest running the encounter with Ekira asap, or allowing the PCs to trigger it by actively seeking her out, otherwise this scenario can drag.
Actually I suggest skipping this scenario entirely and running one that is not just pointless filler.
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What happens if The PCs take the letter to the sherrif and ask him to accompany them to rescue the person in the letter?
It was my first thought when I saw the letter.
When we played through this, this is exactly what we did. We were on friendly terms with the sherriff and wanted him involved.
He and a deputy accompanied us to the house, but waited outside while we performed the rescue, since he "didn't have any experience with that sort of thing".
We aprehended Dalton and brought him out (alive) just as Ekira was complaining to the sheriff that we would murder everyone inside. Then we healed Dalton awake and the trial began right then and there.
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Actually I suggest skipping this scenario entirely and running one that is not just pointless filler.
Scars is the worst investigative pfs scenario to date.
I hate to say it, but I have to agree. As much as I had fun playing it, because of a good GM and group of players, this does seems like one of the worst PFS scenarios I've played to date. Unlike a lot of the scenarios that I've had fun playing and wanted to GM afterwards, this one just screams to be avoided going forward.
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It's actually a pet peeve of mine when there's interesting backstory to a module / scenario that there's no way of the players actually finding out without the DM going out of their way to explain it. I'll probably add a "ubiquitous Murderer's Journal" either found on Krunne or in his room for plot exposition
^^ Very. very much this.
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In the game I'm running, the players rolled uniformly high 20's for everything, getting all the true rumors in phase 2 (of Day 1), and 2 false rumors (one of which was immediately proved false). So I scrubbed the rest of the phases and am just going to have the rest of the time be an unspecified amount of time until the other events kick in, (if they kick in). The next step was to go speak with Ekira and make her an ally, even if she disagrees with them, but one of the interesting things was that they, (having another inquisitor in the party) asked A.) why she had not scanned the prisoners for evil aura's, B.) if she would do so, and then C.) reminded her that, having been prisoners being watched constantly and stripped of gear, and if they had ritualistically murdered two people, they would certainly show in their aura.
I had Ekira become the self appointed roaming guard of the town, after that point (until needed), and trying to sort of play her up now as a friendly rival (she doesn't know they are Pathfinders yet, and smashed the Diplomacy, and also some really great RP from the players.
The basic problem now is, ooc they all basically know exactly what's going on with a few things off but basically nearly right on, (thinking that Ekira is bitter from the loss of close friends after the fall of Kenabres, hearing demonic voices or as the druid put it, hearing the voices of the tainted lands coming to a life of their own, have nearly all of the evidence or enough to disprove almost all of what's aligned against the prisoners that they can get at that point), and I'm really trying to avoid making this a monotonous waiting game. They are already wanting to find a mysterious stranger that sees to be trailing their investigation (again still day 2 in town), and I'm still debating on if I want to add more false rumors (and disprove them) in still as they go, (on the way to speak with the mayor, you see to old men swapping gossip, but can't decide if it was two children or a mother with 6 kids in tow that saw. . .).
They seem to be enjoying, though it's frustrating to some that they basically know what is up, but have to wait for the story to catch up, and this could really do for some more filler for when the party just rolls well. it could really do with a few more combats, (especially ones outside of the area that avoid plot device tracker and the players can just enjoy themselves).
I kind of think this one should just be retired, (hopefully giving Silver Crusade one that actually sort of works for them a little more directly, too).
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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In the game I'm running, the players rolled uniformly high 20's for everything, getting all the true rumors in phase 2 (of Day 1), and 2 false rumors (one of which was immediately proved false). So I scrubbed the rest of the phases and am just going to have the rest of the time be an unspecified amount of time until the other events kick in, (if they kick in). The next step was to go speak with Ekira and make her an ally, even if she disagrees with them, but one of the interesting things was that they, (having another inquisitor in the party) asked A.) why she had not scanned the prisoners for evil aura's, B.) if she would do so, and then C.) reminded her that, having been prisoners being watched constantly and stripped of gear, and if they had ritualistically murdered two people, they would certainly show in their aura.
Not really. You don't get an evil aura till level 4, so there are a lot of murderers out there without auras. Also, if they started out as good, they only committed one ritual murder (otto's farm) and one ordinary murder.
The basic problem now is, ooc they all basically know exactly what's going on with a few things off but basically nearly right on, (thinking that Ekira is bitter from the loss of close friends after the fall of Kenabres, hearing demonic voices or as the druid put it, hearing the voices of the tainted lands coming to a life of their own, have nearly all of the evidence or enough to disprove almost all of what's aligned against the prisoners that they can get at that point), and I'm really trying to avoid making this a monotonous waiting game. They are already wanting to find a mysterious stranger
Well, it is a town of 1000 xenophobes. give them some diplomacy checks that let them find out what other strangers are in town, and let that lead them to the house Dalton is staying in, and effectively kick off encounters 4-5 then and there. (Only, as a reward for their success, they get a chance to take Dalton by surprise instead of the other way around.
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It was more of an update on what's going on in my game than a question. :)
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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It was more of an update on what's going on in my game than a question. :)
Fair enough
But he would only have an aura if the were a cleric of an evil aligned deity.
You can be a mass-murdering follower of Magrim (picks a neutral dwarven deity out of a hat), and detect neutral (well, lawful nuetral) if you are less than forth level.
(You detect as your deity's alignment.)
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I think you're missing the point I was making though, kind of like with the Footnote thing earlier. I am not arguing the rules. All I'm saying is that them, none of them, detecting as evil, having any sort of evil unholy symbol, etc. . . should have raised a Red Flag to Ekira, and it's not really mentioned in the scenario. I just brought it up because it's something the players RP'd with their Diplomacy check. Basically, the writer went out of their way to make certain abilities not work so the plot could, but didn't seem to really think that through enough. That's my beef, not how the actual rules work, though admittedly I was wrong about Zone of Truth.
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Running this in a few days, and had a thought and a question.
Thought - as for "why did he do it" - I'd check and see which PCs have "Day of the Demon" and/or "Tower of the Ironwood Watch". The demon was in the latter and might have been seen by the PCs, and Dalton's name showed up in the former.
The Butcher of Korvosa—Dalton Krunne Life Sentence for murder Transferred to Sinner’s End
murder and cannibalism En route to Ostergarde
Question - in the Town track, it lists 16 as where they try to arrest the PCs, but beneath that it says "5. Dalton is on site for the accusations, but..." Is that supposed to be 5? 15? (since there is no accusation made until 10 at the very least by the town toughs, right?). This is confusing me because there's no clarification that I've noticed in the scenario itself...
I do enjoy the "feel" of this scenario, but it's really hard to follow...
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Running this in a few days, and had a thought and a question.
Thought - as for "why did he do it" - I'd check and see which PCs have "Day of the Demon" and/or "Tower of the Ironwood Watch". The demon was in the latter and might have been seen by the PCs, and Dalton's name showed up in the former.
Rather than editing this out...it just hit me that both of those scenarios are 3-7 or 5-9, so the chances of a PC having played either of those prior to playing this one...
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Question - in the Town track, it lists 16 as where they try to arrest the PCs, but beneath that it says "5. Dalton is on site for the accusations, but..." Is that supposed to be 5? 15? (since there is no accusation made until 10 at the very least by the town toughs, right?). This is confusing me because there's no clarification that I've noticed in the scenario itself...
It's a misplaced line break:
The line before it ends with "this begins encounter" It is supposed to be all one block in the table.
It should read "this begins encounter 5. Dalton is on site for"
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 8
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I ran this last night! The party included a bright red Tiefling with prominent horns and a Vishkanya, whose features might be taken as celestial or fiendish to an uninformed observer such as one of Dawnton's farmers.
They didn't want to go in disguise even though they knew Dawnton was insular and fearful of demons, and a couple of bad diplomacy rolls early on led to them hearing false rumors and asking around about demon worship. Their town sentiment track advanced at an impressive pace, culminating in the use of color spray and sleep poison against the pugilistic pig farmers. Nevertheless, the party managed to gather their evidence and befriend Sheriff Luin before things got out of hand.
They easily turned Dalton's ambush against him and presented their evidence eloquently to Ekira and Tobias. At this point Tovril, who had been following Ekira, got frustrated at the diminishing chance of violence and revealed himself. Giggling manically, he channelled negative energy over the crowd. The PCs convinced him to depart with some cold iron arrows, but didn't have a good way to keep him from fleeing.
The PCs convinced Ekira to free the prisoners and even to reconsider her hatred of the Pathfinder Society, but the townfolk still wanted them all gone as soon as possible.
In the end, I have to say I am enjoying the way so many of these Season 5 scenarios deal with the effects of the crusaders' struggle to hold a line against an infinite army of demons in a war they expect will never end. We have NPCs who are meant to be heroes, but have suffered psychological trauma that affects their decision-making. Understanding that and figuring out how to work with them makes for an interesting adventure by itself.
And for the unofficial record, one PC got a haircut at Orug's.
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Did run it yesterday to get a feel for it for a con coming up next week.
The players, in the end, mostly liked it, but one at least got extremely annoyed with Ekira and her stubbornness. I also felt like it was stupid to keep her going "you're Pathfinders, of course you're fundamentally to be distrusted, so I'm just going to be antagonistic even though you bring all of this compelling evidence to me". They tried their best in final encounter, but the dice were against them so despite all the evidence they had, she told them to they were guilty and demanded their surrender. Se got knocked out quickly, but luckily Tobias was on the party's side so did succeed in the main mission.
All in all, it did cause some frustration in me when I knew the players were choosing to focus on things the scenario didn't take into account. They also played so carefully, that the town sentiment track didn't move almost at all, so things felt very slow until the opposition track got to moving. They went to see Ekira before she had gotten suspicious of them, encounter 2 didn't happen at all etc.
So as a piece of advise: brush up your improvisation skills, you're going to need them. It's very easy to take this scenario of the tracks, because the players are going to assume the tracks are going into a different direction than they actually are.
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Same thing happened to me It basically stalled out at -1 and the opposition track at 3 the entire game until I just pushed the final events to happen.
I would suggest scrapping the tracks, and simply give the DM a detailed explanation of what really happened, and a sort of "Who knows What" and "Ths person Believes:" chart for all the major NPCs.
