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I didn't think I would find anyone who use all the rules. Here is my questions then, both as GM and players Is it to much book keeping? Is there much crafting going on or are your players buying everything. Does the book keeping out shine the role playing?
The local group I was playing with only use the Corerule book and sometimes UM, UC. They handle everything with four anwsers (Kill it, Burn it, Steal it, How much do I get Paid) as such I have decide to find a group or start one with more deepth. I am concerned that That using all the offical books put out by Paizo might be to much book keeping and take away from the role playing / or storytelling. I was looking to see as you each having dealing with all the Pazio stuff what you think.
Thanks
IMOP the GM need to have decided for the rules to use so he/she dosent get unplesant surprises. if you want to use them all, not really possible since some of them are alternative rules to exixting ones, you need to have looked at them all and sayd yes.
I suggest you start saying for this game we will use books x, xx, xxx, xxxx and so on. unless your story requier that you use special rules i wouldent bother with things like variant asimars, and all the feats from the smaller books.
just like when you wanted to do the green arrow guy that made his own weapons. How this will work is dependent on your game. If the guys you find all are great roleplayers and they only feel that the concepts can be realized with skinwalkers and oniblooded thiflings then go for it. But i suspect that you dont need all the rules.
Lots of rules or very few is not the deciding factor in how good the roleplay is IMOP. But folks with limited system mastery may be confused by games with ALL the rules(i know i do).
The trick is to use as little as you can to achieve the goals you want to meet.
If someone wants to craft a weapon, the craft rules come up.
If someone wants to research a new spell, the spell research rules come into play.
If someone wants to buy and run a tavern, pull out the downtime rules.
If the party decides to build a settlement from scratch, look at kingdom building.
When you start the game, tell the players which books you want to use, and inform them that if they want to use a rule that exists elsewhere, they can.
Don't over prepare for every possible rule (all of the campaign systems in Ultimate Campaign could be used in one game, but it would be a lot of work), but be aware of what rules exist and be ready to pull them out if you need them.
We pretty much use bits of all the books, but restrict a few classes and archetypes. I don't find that it hampers role playing in any way at all. Most of my games revolve around either APs or large, modules (Rappan Athuk for example) so in that way, I'm able to run a good game without making prep time too much of an ordeal. It's very easy to over-prep in PF and other 3.X games so I try to avoid going too "sand-boxy".
What book keeping is involved is handled by appointing one player to tallying the loot for later party-split. In large games, I appoint a Co-DM for quickly referencing rules. This lightens my load quite a bit and improves the game.
Crafting as laid out in the Gamemastery guide works just fine if you follow the rules as written there. Keep a close eye on the party's wealth per level and you'll keep things challenging enough. Doesn't matter if they make it themselves or buy it in cities. The latter method actually gives them more reason to travel to Magnimar, Absalom, or wherever.
The Pathfinder Campaign Setting is excellent by the way I run it almost exclusively for PF play (I've several other setting for running OSR games). Grab one of the APs that suits your group (Shattered Star would work well since they sound like they would dig a rather old school, "kill the bad guys and take their stuff" vibe) and have at it. I'd recommend omitting the rules that you don't like or that you don't want to deal with (because they break immersion or are a bit overpowered), but otherwise, just keep it wide open as far as Paizo material is concerned. I think the 3P stuff is a bit unwieldy, but for the most part, the material from Paizo is usually well-considered and won't break your game.
Here's an example of the house rules I use:
1) No 3rd Party stuff (this keeps the game reasonably balanced).
2) No Archetypes for new players, others by approval (too easy to screw up for new/casual PF groups and some are ridiculously OP).
3) Core Races only please. We may fill in missing slots with the other stuff as the campaign develops.
4) Good or Neutral characters.
5) Max starting HPs, then HPs per level as per the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (p.9). This makes for far less whining and is good, old fashioned, RPG Socialism.
6) 150 gp to start the game. You may buy magic items (if you can afford them) to start the game.
7) Retraining Rules from UC are in play except there is no need to find "some random NPC to teach you toughness" for example (hand wave ). You pays your gp, you's gets yo' retraining.
8) Item Purchasing & Ye Olde Magic Store. The party is expected to be somewhat self-sufficient and should make efforts to "stock up" on stuff you can't craft whenever you're in a city for any length of time. I'm using the availability and city rules from the Gamemastery book.
9) No Firearms or Gunslingers as I find it breaks immersion. Sorry, but I just don't like them.
10) No Summoners either. They slow down play and we find them to be rather bonkers.
11) XPs won't be used but rather, PCs will advance as the AP dictate they do so.
12) No D&D 3.5 stuff. PF basically takes 3.5 and tries to make a more playable game out of it. Bringing in the broken stuff from 3.5 is generally a bad idea.
13) Traits are required and you get 2 of them. Both tell us about what your character was doing before the story and possibly, what is upbringing was like. You can't retrain these. Pick a campaign trait from the Jade Regent Player's Guide (for example) and one from the common trait list (ignoring the 3rd party traits).
14) Dead dudes get a proper viking funeral (if not raised) and turn their goods over to their next-of-kin. You're new PC rolls up at the level of your previous dude with gear and magic items equal to the current average of the party. Yes, there will be blood.
Some of us do use all available rules (meaning books at our immediate disposal, not buying every book as soon as it's out). But sometimes you get rules overload.
There are tons of little rules that just get ignored anyway, either to speed up play, avoid pissing off PCs (item saves vs fireball/dragon breath or gets destroyed), so obscure/uncommon that even the authors sometimes forget (tiny or smaller size creatures have their armor bonus halved), or too wonky to be of any real use or fun (caravan rules from the Jade Regent AP).
Knowing every rule is one thing, but *using* everything often just isn't worth the effort.
I would say the only major difference in paperwork between CRB only (or less) and using the full library comes in character creation and leveling. As long as everyone knows how their character works (or at least wrote down the book and page # a feature comes from) then you should be golden.
There are, even in the core rules, some paperwork intensive options. Any caster who relies on summoning will need creature stat cards (particularly those summoning specialists who get to apply a template.) Full, prepared casters can require a lot of paperwork (particularly wizards who must keep seperate track of spells learned/spells in my spellbook/spells in that spellbook/ what scrolls do I have at what caster level, and a bunch of needley little use per day abilities) but for a good player can be no problem. Pet classes also take a bit of extra work at character creation to make sure they come out correctly.
To answer your larger question though, it is totally worth it and the paperwork doesn't take away from the experience so long as you have a solid plan to manage it.
I think the OP means putting everything Paizo published on the table as an option. I do that when I run Golarion. I don't do that when I run a homebrew world. It really only forces you to put in as much effort as your players do. If you have 6 players who want to have optimized characters and you try to run an AP you can run into issues of needing to rebalance encounters, and that is time not well spent. If you have been the GM before and you are comfortable with your campaign I say go for it, more options is supposed to be more ways to have fun and it is when done well.
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I am starting my own group because my last group did not allow for the books I wished to use. Mostly the ultimate and advanced books. There are slot of opinions I wanted to use the running a tavern, and creating a things guide that is spread out, I want to also do some mass combat. You have given some really good answers. I think I will make all Paolo book useable, but make the players tell me which ones they want to use. If they down want to use down time then I will skip it.
Like others have said; Only use what you need, and delegating is a good idea:
-in my group one player keeps track of loot,
-one keeps track of initiative,
-all of them scibble down plots and npc as they appear, I tell them that if they don't remember stuff - I won't either. (I have enough things spinning in the air as it is)
-I also keep one in charge of drawing maps when they are exploring places that are uncharted.
(I make hand made, aged-looking maps as handouts for cities and similar places.)
there is also a house rule that if you want to use a spell, feat or class ability, you have to know what it does. (I give ppl max 2 mins to look up stuff in the middle of action scenes.)
the most important rules I try to always have fresh is the different skills, as I focus quite heavily on them.
having a list of costs for mundane things like a beer, a night at an inn or a ferry ride helps as well.
(I charge the players for pretty much anything I can think of, but also give them roleplaying advantages for doing so.)
knowing how CMD and CMB interact is also a good idea, as they cover pretty much anything outside of "I Stab Him"
Thankfully sevral of us smokes, so I call a break everytime I'm stumped and need to improvise or I need to look up something.
and the ogc is your friend :)
