What happens to believers in Rahadoum?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


What sort of penalties would apply for the following "offences":

    Owning a holy symbol or sacred text
    Casting a divine spell
    Being the willing target of a divine spell
    Preaching in private
    Praying in private
    Smiting evil
    Laying on hands
    Using another paladin power (detecting evil?)

Liberty's Edge

Steve Geddes wrote:

What sort of penalties would apply for the following "offences":

    Owning a holy symbol or sacred text
    Casting a divine spell
    Being the willing target of a divine spell
    Preaching in private
    Praying in private
    Smiting evil
    Laying on hands
    Using another paladin power (detecting evil?)

This is actually covered in a couple PFS scenarios.

These offenses are usually three strike. First strike, if you are a native, you are fined. Second Strike you are fined and jailed, third strike, depending on severity could range from jail indefinitely to death or exile.

If not a native, you are fined heavily, if done again, you are fined heavily and deported.

Rahadoum is actually an amazingly reasonable place, just follow their laws and respect their customs and they will do the same to you, minus your religion.


Zach W. wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

What sort of penalties would apply for the following "offences":

    Owning a holy symbol or sacred text
    Casting a divine spell
    Being the willing target of a divine spell
    Preaching in private
    Praying in private
    Smiting evil
    Laying on hands
    Using another paladin power (detecting evil?)

This is actually covered in a couple PFS scenarios.

These offenses are usually three strike. First strike, if you are a native, you are fined. Second Strike you are fined and jailed, third strike, depending on severity could range from jail indefinitely to death or exile.

If not a native, you are fined heavily, if done again, you are fined heavily and deported.

Rahadoum is actually an amazingly reasonable place, just follow their laws and respect their customs and they will do the same to you, minus your religion.

Rahadoum is not a reasonable place at all

Liberty's Edge

xavier c wrote:
Zach W. wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

What sort of penalties would apply for the following "offences":

    Owning a holy symbol or sacred text
    Casting a divine spell
    Being the willing target of a divine spell
    Preaching in private
    Praying in private
    Smiting evil
    Laying on hands
    Using another paladin power (detecting evil?)

This is actually covered in a couple PFS scenarios.

These offenses are usually three strike. First strike, if you are a native, you are fined. Second Strike you are fined and jailed, third strike, depending on severity could range from jail indefinitely to death or exile.

If not a native, you are fined heavily, if done again, you are fined heavily and deported.

Rahadoum is actually an amazingly reasonable place, just follow their laws and respect their customs and they will do the same to you, minus your religion.

Rahadoum is not a reasonable place at all

I did forget the whole slavery thing, kinda hard to forget that but I did.

Liberty's Edge

Actually Xavier C, Rahadoum seems quite reasonable. They have a lot of bardic schools and universities as knowledge is highly prized there. They also sit on top of the ancient Jitska Imperium and so have access to ancient lore from there when they tap into it.

There are now several Pathfinder Society scenarios featuring Rahadoum, my favorite being the most recent Port Godless. Next to Galt and Nex it is probably my favorite Nation In Golarion as it is just so different to see in a Fantasy setting.


It's quite reasonable, until you realize that they like to create crises, blame it on a religion, and then swoop in and "Save the Day."

What I always find amusing that they blame the gods for their drought and other issues, thinking it active retribution.

Silver Crusade

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Rahadoum is about as reasonable as an extreme theocratic nation that persecutes athiests. That kind of oppressive absolutism isn't particularly conducive to reason, no matter which side of that particular theological divide one is on. This is the real tragedy of Rahadoum: They haven't really learned from the Oath Wars, they just traded one form of fanatacism for another. Instead of opening minds, they remain closed as ever and the threat of persecution ensures they stay that way.

Rahadoum seems to be getting a bit better recently though. Early on they had a real problem of balance with the hardcore persecution angles and the purposeful distribution of weapons made to kill servants of the divine to other nations without a care for who they might be used against. And then there's the black flag operations The NPC mentioned. Newer stuff like the Inner Sea NPC Codex seems to be curbing that fanatacism somewhat.

What I'm really curious about is whether or not they enforce the ban on worship among their slaves. I mean, if Cheliax starts looking more progressive than you in certain areas, it's probably time to rethink one's approach. The place could do with a lot more people like Ezren and a lot less like Rupert Raim.

Personally, I'd rather visit their neighbor, Lirgen. Or would....if it hadn't gotten Abendego'd. But hey, at least they had a functioning space program.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

What about things that aren't quite divine?

I have an Aasimar Celestial-blooded Sorcerer that's planning on making a trip to Rahadoum soon. Golden skin, wings, permanent halo, the whole nine yards. And has Bless as an Arcane spell. Is, for lack of a better word, "holiness" a problem, or just actual worship.

(This ignores the whole working-towards-Mystery-Cultist part, which would be kept secret, of course. Even then, I'm planning on playing it much more like extreme respect for an ancestor than actual worship.)


Mikaze wrote:
Rahadoum is about as reasonable as an extreme theocratic nation that persecutes athiests. That kind of oppressive absolutism isn't particularly conducive to reason, no matter which side of that particular theological divide one is on. This is the real tragedy of Rahadoum: They haven't really learned from the Oath Wars, they just traded one form of fanaticism for another. Instead of opening minds, they remain closed as ever and the threat of persecution ensures they stay that way.

See, I used to view Rahadoum like Zach W. Being kind of an atheist myself, I figured, "Hey, these guys just wanna be fantasy atheists. That's cool." But then you come along with an amazing viewpoint that changes how I see it all. This is why Mikaze is my favourite person. Well, top three. I'm having trouble picking between M here, Todd Stewart, and China Mieville.

Quote:
Personally, I'd rather visit their neighbor, Lirgen. Or would....if it hadn't gotten Abendego'd. But hey, at least they had a functioning space program.

OH MY [swear word]-ING [pick a deity]. That's Dragon's Demand, right? I need to remember to buy that next time I'm in my FLGS.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jonathon Vining wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Personally, I'd rather visit their neighbor, Lirgen. Or would....if it hadn't gotten Abendego'd. But hey, at least they had a functioning space program.
OH MY [swear word]-ING [pick a deity]. That's Dragon's Demand, right? I need to remember to buy that next time I'm in my FLGS.

Not Dragon's Demand (which has other stuff). I want to say... Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Lost Kingdoms.

Liberty's Edge

chavamana wrote:
Jonathon Vining wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Personally, I'd rather visit their neighbor, Lirgen. Or would....if it hadn't gotten Abendego'd. But hey, at least they had a functioning space program.
OH MY [swear word]-ING [pick a deity]. That's Dragon's Demand, right? I need to remember to buy that next time I'm in my FLGS.
Not Dragon's Demand (which has other stuff). I want to say... Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Lost Kingdoms.

I think doom Comes To Dustspawn may reference it as well.

Liberty's Edge

Guys and Gals, Rahadoum is not an Atheist nation.

The Rahadoumi do believe that the gods exist unlike Atheists who do not.

What you are looking for and what has been brought up in quite a few threads is Maltheism. In Maltheism there is recognition that God/Gods exist but they are hateful and spiteful beings who are not worthy of worship.

Sure that true sense of Maltheism is slightly corrupted in Rahadoum's case but I do not think it makes Rahadoum any less interesting. Considering we have a nation ruled by the Umbral Court, Nation ruled by a False God religon, a nation with the state religon is worshiping an Arch Devil and so on, it just makes Golarion that much more interesting.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Maltheism


The NPC wrote:
What I always find amusing that they blame the gods for their drought and other issues, thinking it active retribution.

I'm not sure what's amusing about that, unless you're confusing real-world atheism with what Rahadoum practices.

The drought seems to be caused by the Eye of Abendengo, an event that most in Golarion might guess is linked to the gods somehow,
which disrupts normal weather patterns, shifting too much rain SOUTH, and leaving a drought in the north...
Which presumably also effects south-western Cheliax, despite them also worshipping gods.
Developing cities in the south of Rahaoum which receives an over-abundance of rain would seem the reasonable response.


pH unbalanced wrote:

What about things that aren't quite divine?

I have an Aasimar Celestial-blooded Sorcerer that's planning on making a trip to Rahadoum soon. Golden skin, wings, permanent halo, the whole nine yards. And has Bless as an Arcane spell. Is, for lack of a better word, "holiness" a problem, or just actual worship.

(This ignores the whole working-towards-Mystery-Cultist part, which would be kept secret, of course. Even then, I'm planning on playing it much more like extreme respect for an ancestor than actual worship.)

I imagine that the average Rahadoumi citizen would not know the difference, but as someone pointed out earlier, it's not like Rahadoum is backwards. I bet that a lot of aspects of arcane magic and alchemy are more advanced there than anywhere else since they have to pull double duty and cover for divine magic.

You won't have to go all that far to find someone smart enough to tell the difference between arcane and divine magic. You are probably going to have more problems for being descended from outsiders, although as with the magic, lots of people would have enough ranks of Knowledge(Planes) to tell the difference.


Mikaze wrote:
This is the real tragedy of Rahadoum: They haven't really learned from the Oath Wars, they just traded one form of fanatacism for another.

Not quite, they traded MULTIPLE warring forms of fanatacism for ONE form of fanaticsm that can keep the peace.

I really think Paizo's calling them atheist was just a poor choice of words, because people seem to be unable to separate them from real-world concepts of atheism. They aren't about that, they are about a specific reaction to a specific historical circumstance, of religion-fueled civil war [backed by meddling gods, who presumably can cut off powers to their more zealous followers whenever they want, but did not do so]. That's what their regime is meant to stop. They believe in gods just as much as everybody else in Golarion, they just don't want God-worshippers messing up their country.

Quote:
What I'm really curious about is whether or not they enforce the ban on worship among their slaves. I mean, if Cheliax starts looking more progressive than you in certain areas, it's probably time to rethink one's approach.

Why wouldn't they enforce the religion ban on slaves? I wouldn't be surprised if their slavery is in fact more 'moderate' than Cheliax, e.g. the hereditary halfling slavery thing. If anything, I might think that some repeat offending God-worshippers might be enslaved to work for the state as punishment.

And I'm sure Cheliax excels in many areas compared to most nations, but a lack of excellence in Opera is probably not making Andoren re-think it's approach. (but maybe!?)


Saint Caleth wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:

What about things that aren't quite divine?

I have an Aasimar Celestial-blooded Sorcerer that's planning on making a trip to Rahadoum soon. Golden skin, wings, permanent halo, the whole nine yards. And has Bless as an Arcane spell. Is, for lack of a better word, "holiness" a problem, or just actual worship.

I imagine that the average Rahadoumi citizen would not know the difference, but as someone pointed out earlier, it's not like Rahadoum is backwards. I bet that a lot of aspects of arcane magic and alchemy are more advanced there than anywhere else since they have to pull double duty and cover for divine magic.

You won't have to go all that far to find someone smart enough to tell the difference between arcane and divine magic. You are probably going to have more problems for being descended from outsiders, although as with the magic, lots of people would have enough ranks of Knowledge(Planes) to tell the difference.

Aasimar and Tieflings are 0CR mod races, so pretty easy to know of via untrained DC10 Know:Planes checks, and know that has nothing to do with active divine worship. There is tons of Tieflings next door in Cheliax, and Aasimar are the obvious counterpart to them. Along with Suli/Elemental-kin in the Osirion side of the continent which historically influenced Rahadoum. So people will be aware of the concept, and aware that these are not agents of the gods or god worshippers any more so than a normal human. Rahadoum is also advanced in arcane magic, which includes summoning outsiders, and is noted to be a meeting spot of outsiders outside the gods' influence, so they should be as aware of them as anybody else on Golarion.

They may not LIKE the idea of this visible mark of the gods' influence walking around, but as mentioned, Rahadoum doesn't factually dispute the gods' having influenced the world or continuing to do so outside of Rahadoum, so it is hardly against the regime code. Probably the most likely thing to be held against them would be that these planetouched, especially the more Charismatic ones, might be prime attractions for religion-minded Rahadoumis to follow, being tangible representations of the celestial/diabolic hosts, so the authorities might be extra on-guard against any plane-touched who start up cults, etc. On the other hand, plenty of them might be perfect exemplars of the First Law, championing the regime to a 'T', standing with humanity against the gods' meddling.

More extreme manifestations of plane-touched are going to be remarked on anywhere they live just about, so while Rahadoum might have a specific nuance to it's reaction, I don't see it as beyond the norm of how these races are treated elsewhere... Other than that they may not 'favor' one plane-touched race over the others.

Liberty's Edge

Ive always wanted to know the Rahadoumi view of the Starstone and the test of the Starstone. My view is that it reinforces the view of the divine being a bad thing if a drunk can do the test, not remember how he did it, and become a God.

Silver Crusade

Quandary wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
This is the real tragedy of Rahadoum: They haven't really learned from the Oath Wars, they just traded one form of fanatacism for another.

Not quite, they traded MULTIPLE warring forms of fanatacism for ONE form of fanaticsm that can keep the peace.

I really think Paizo's calling them atheist was just a poor choice of words, because people seem to be unable to separate them from real-world concepts of atheism. They aren't about that, they are about a specific reaction to a specific historical circumstance, of religion-fueled civil war [backed by meddling gods, who presumably can cut off powers to their more zealous followers whenever they want, but did not do so]. That's what their regime is meant to stop. They believe in gods just as much as everybody else in Golarion, they just don't want God-worshippers messing up their country.

Quote:
What I'm really curious about is whether or not they enforce the ban on worship among their slaves. I mean, if Cheliax starts looking more progressive than you in certain areas, it's probably time to rethink one's approach.

Why wouldn't they enforce the religion ban on slaves? I wouldn't be surprised if their slavery is in fact more 'moderate' than Cheliax, e.g. the hereditary halfling slavery thing. If anything, I might think that some repeat offending God-worshippers might be enslaved to work for the state as punishment.

One reason to not enforce it would be the same one Cheliax goes with, if you tighten the shackles on their minds too tightly, they'll rebel outright. It's why the worship of goodly deities is still allowed amongst them and the general populace, so long as the token lip-service to Asmodeus is offered. That's not to say Cheliax is ahead of them on every level on the slavery front(you're a hell of a lot less likely to be sacrificed in Rahadoum for one).

I want to say the only place that seems to have run with the idea of restricting hereditary slavery in Garund is Osirion of all places. It seemed to be made out to be a newer idea in the region in the new Osirion book.

Regarding the peace they've created, it's one born of fear, and that kind tends to go poorly. And if it was just "let us live as we wish", their reputation would be a lot less checkered. Unfortunately, we have the proliferation of godslayer weapons and blackflag operations. But as said, it seems like that's being curbed a bit in more recent publications.

Quandary wrote:
And I'm sure Cheliax excels in many areas compared to most nations, but a lack of excellence in Opera is probably not making Andoren re-think it's approach. (but maybe!?)

Oh God those snuff plays

Silver Crusade

Deadmanwalking wrote:
chavamana wrote:
Jonathon Vining wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Personally, I'd rather visit their neighbor, Lirgen. Or would....if it hadn't gotten Abendego'd. But hey, at least they had a functioning space program.
OH MY [swear word]-ING [pick a deity]. That's Dragon's Demand, right? I need to remember to buy that next time I'm in my FLGS.
Not Dragon's Demand (which has other stuff). I want to say... Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Lost Kingdoms.
I think doom Comes To Dustspawn may reference it as well.

Yeah, Doom Comes To Dustpawn is where you want to look for that one.

Regarding Lost Kingdoms, I'm not sure if it's mentioned there, but IIRC Distant Worlds does have a bit to say about either Alzant or Thassilon having

Spoiler:
a frickin' moon base.[/dr.evil]


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Quandary wrote:
The NPC wrote:
What I always find amusing that they blame the gods for their drought and other issues, thinking it active retribution.
I'm not sure what's amusing about that, unless you're confusing real-world atheism with what Rahadoum practices.

Isn't one of the staples of tragedy to get what you exactly what you ask for and have it turn out poorly? They said no gods and so the gods are with drawing everything. Letting them stand entirely on their own with neither a finger lifted to harm or help them.

How would I be confusing the two?

Scarab Sages

The NPC wrote:
Quandary wrote:
The NPC wrote:
What I always find amusing that they blame the gods for their drought and other issues, thinking it active retribution.
I'm not sure what's amusing about that, unless you're confusing real-world atheism with what Rahadoum practices.

Isn't one of the staples of tragedy to get what you exactly what you ask for and have it turn out poorly? They said no gods and so the gods are with drawing everything. Letting them stand entirely on their own with neither a finger lifted to harm or help them.

How would I be confusing the two?

Because it is petty and bullying and not in tune with what good gods should do at all. Rahadoum is saying "yes, gods exist, yes they are powerful, but they and their believers have caused too much trouble in the past, why should we worship these beings who have brought so much strife to us?" and then, say, Sarenrae goes "well, you're not going to worship me, I withdraw my influence from your lands and leave you worse off"?

That won't reinforce the beliefs of Rahadoum at all...


minoritarian wrote:
The NPC wrote:
Quandary wrote:
The NPC wrote:
What I always find amusing that they blame the gods for their drought and other issues, thinking it active retribution.
I'm not sure what's amusing about that, unless you're confusing real-world atheism with what Rahadoum practices.

Isn't one of the staples of tragedy to get what you exactly what you ask for and have it turn out poorly? They said no gods and so the gods are with drawing everything. Letting them stand entirely on their own with neither a finger lifted to harm or help them.

How would I be confusing the two?

Because it is petty and bullying and not in tune with what good gods should do at all. Rahadoum is saying "yes, gods exist, yes they are powerful, but they and their believers have caused too much trouble in the past, why should we worship these beings who have brought so much strife to us?" and then, say, Sarenrae goes "well, you're not going to worship me, I withdraw my influence from your lands and leave you worse off"?

That won't reinforce the beliefs of Rahadoum at all...

So why should the gods stay?

Scarab Sages

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If a good god only does good things because they're worshipped for it then they're not good.

Scarab Sages

But there's already a thread on this subject and it's off-topic to what the original poster asked

Managing Editor

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I just want to point out that players arguing the morality and philosophy of Rahadoum in pretty much the same way as in-world people would argue them makes me cackle with glee. :)

Even when we're not playing the game, we're still playing the game!


minoritarian wrote:
If a good god only does good things because they're worshipped for it then they're not good.

Unless there's a divine mandate of non-interference unless requested. My impression from Gods & Magic and the various god articles is that a god isn't allowed to meaningfully interact with someone who doesn't worship that god, except under circumstances where you've intentionally intruded on that god's turf (in which case they can mess you in usually "slight" ways).*

In other words, you normally need to voluntarily be under a god's jurisdiction before that god can do stuff for you.

The Pathfinder gods are constrained by a very intricate set of rules that govern when they're allowed to provide aid. The rules were looser long ago, but as more deities have died over the eons they've tightened up.

Rahadoum's blanket policy of "screw off" greatly limits what any deity could do to directly aid them.

Disclaimer: This opinion may change once we get Inner Sea Gods and have a more robust look at the Big 20, and get a better feel for what they can and can't do.

* Never go on a date near a shrine to Lamashtu!


minoritarian wrote:
The NPC wrote:
Quandary wrote:
The NPC wrote:
What I always find amusing that they blame the gods for their drought and other issues, thinking it active retribution.
I'm not sure what's amusing about that, unless you're confusing real-world atheism with what Rahadoum practices.

Isn't one of the staples of tragedy to get what you exactly what you ask for and have it turn out poorly? They said no gods and so the gods are with drawing everything. Letting them stand entirely on their own with neither a finger lifted to harm or help them.

How would I be confusing the two?

Because it is petty and bullying and not in tune with what good gods should do at all. Rahadoum is saying "yes, gods exist, yes they are powerful, but they and their believers have caused too much trouble in the past, why should we worship these beings who have brought so much strife to us?" and then, say, Sarenrae goes "well, you're not going to worship me, I withdraw my influence from your lands and leave you worse off"?

That won't reinforce the beliefs of Rahadoum at all...

Wouldn't it be more petty and bullying if the drought and what not were a result of a divine tantrum? Also, how is not respecting their decision and free will not Good?

Say a parent tries to tell a child/teenager not to do something but the child/teenager insists beyond reason to do it their way. Is it Evil when the parent decides to let them learn the hard way because they will learn no other way?

I imagine the good gods said "Have it your own way" with great sadness.

Silver Crusade

pH unbalanced wrote:


I have an Aasimar Celestial-blooded Sorcerer that's planning on making a trip to Rahadoum soon. Golden skin, wings, permanent halo, the whole nine yards. And has Bless as an Arcane spell. Is, for lack of a better word, "holiness" a problem, or just actual worship.

They might run into a deal of racisim, due to this being the Kingdom of Man.

My Tiefling Pally was there for a PFS thing (in Port Godless). She got into a whole conversation with a female there about how calling them the Rules of Man was very sexist and a bad thing. Was amusing, diplomacy is fun.

Contributor

Jonathon Vining wrote:


See, I used to view Rahadoum like Zach W. Being kind of an atheist myself, I figured, "Hey, these guys just wanna be fantasy atheists. That's cool." But then you come along with an amazing viewpoint that changes how I see it all. This is why Mikaze is my favourite person. Well, top three. I'm having trouble picking between M here, Todd Stewart, and China Mieville.

Wait, what??! *boggle*

How and why am I on your favorite person list?

And this is officially the first time in my life I've been named in the same breath as China Mieville. Be still my black beating heart! :D

Liberty's Edge

The NPC wrote:

Wouldn't it be more petty and bullying if the drought and what not were a result of a divine tantrum? Also, how is not respecting their decision and free will not Good?

Say a parent tries to tell a child/teenager not to do something but the child/teenager insists beyond reason to do it their way. Is it Evil when the parent decides to let them learn the hard way because they will learn no other way?

I imagine the good gods said "Have it your own way" with great sadness.

Also the Good gods have eternal hope that Good will prevail. They will not interfere with mortals' free will because they know for sure that in the end All will be well.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthew Pittard wrote:
Ive always wanted to know the Rahadoumi view of the Starstone and the test of the Starstone. My view is that it reinforces the view of the divine being a bad thing if a drunk can do the test, not remember how he did it, and become a God.

Why should they view it differently? As far as the party line goes, a god is a god, no matter how each god originated, they're all aloof beings that think of mortals as chess pieces and play things, and they've had quite enough of that during the Oath Wars.

If you really want an inside look at the Rhadoumi viewpoint, you can't do better than to read the novel "Death's Heretic."


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Todd Stewart wrote:

Wait, what??! *boggle*

How and why am I on your favorite person list?

It started with your storyhour and your presence on Planewalker. You are entirely the reason I fell in love with yugoloths. Your work in Pathfinder products has not diminished my opinion at all.

Liberty's Edge

I dont think all the gods do view mortals as Chess pieces. What about all the CN gods who wont have the focus of will to even try Chess? :)

Liberty's Edge

Matthew Pittard wrote:
I dont think all the gods do view mortals as Chess pieces. What about all the CN gods who wont have the focus of will to even try Chess? :)

Uh...that is not how Chaotic Alignment works.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also keep in mind is that godhood has been revealed to not be the only result of a successful Starstone test.

Aroden for example, became mythic as a result of raising the Starstone and got his godhood later.


LazarX wrote:

Also keep in mind is that godhood has been revealed to not be the only result of a successful Starstone test.

Aroden for example, became mythic as a result of raising the Starstone and got his godhood later.

IIRC, Aroden's initial rise to (demi)godhood is explicitly stated in Mythic Realms to be from the existing deities in exchange for him creating the Test of the Starstone.

Not saying you're wrong about other potential results of a Starstone test than godhood, though.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alleran wrote:
LazarX wrote:

Also keep in mind is that godhood has been revealed to not be the only result of a successful Starstone test.

Aroden for example, became mythic as a result of raising the Starstone and got his godhood later.

IIRC, Aroden's initial rise to (demi)godhood is explicitly stated in Mythic Realms to be from the existing deities in exchange for him creating the Test of the Starstone.

Not saying you're wrong about other potential results of a Starstone test than godhood, though.

Paizo never actually said that the results of a successful Starstone test WOULD be godhood. And they specifically stated otherwise, so that there would be an out for players to have characters who've passed the test to remain definable player characters.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthew Pittard wrote:
I dont think all the gods do view mortals as Chess pieces. What about all the CN gods who wont have the focus of will to even try Chess? :)

Chess, Dice, victory chits, call it what you will. Regardless of alignment, all gods are pushing the interests of their portfolios because that's inherent to what they ARE.

After a few eons of immortality, there simply no way a divine being could identify with mortals on anything approaching an equivalent basis. Heck, even long lived mortals have that problem after a mere couple of centuries. (What keeps Superman to Earth after Lois Lane dies of old age?) Gods are all essentially Q's, with some variations on ethics and morality in a very broad abstract sense.


LazarX wrote:
Alleran wrote:
LazarX wrote:

Also keep in mind is that godhood has been revealed to not be the only result of a successful Starstone test.

Aroden for example, became mythic as a result of raising the Starstone and got his godhood later.

IIRC, Aroden's initial rise to (demi)godhood is explicitly stated in Mythic Realms to be from the existing deities in exchange for him creating the Test of the Starstone.

Not saying you're wrong about other potential results of a Starstone test than godhood, though.

Paizo never actually said that the results of a successful Starstone test WOULD be godhood. And they specifically stated otherwise, so that there would be an out for players to have characters who've passed the test to remain definable player characters.

Uh, I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with Aroden's rise, which is explicitly stated to be a result of the gods elevating him in payment for creating the Test. Or if you're disagreeing with me about other potential results, which I also acknowledged.


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"If you go to Rahadoum, you will die."

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