Question on recharging spells for Seoni. The rules state that a spent spell gets automatically recharged after it is cast (for Seoni, attempted recharge for other classes). If this is the case then is it possible if Seoni has only 1 spell left and fights a monster/henchman and looses the fight, the damage she takes will be "0" if she has no cards in her hand but the spell will get recharged right away allowing her to draw it again the next round. Effectively never dying until the monster is defeated or some other effect makes her loose that card.
First, please unclick your caps-lock.
Spells hover in the air waiting to be recharged until after damage is dealt. So in the case that Seoni has played the only card in her hand, she's going to lose no cards from the damage.
But I assure you, losing all your cards every turn is not a recipe for success.
sorry, about the caps. So does she loose the spell card when she takes damage, or does it get recharged to be drawn again? It came up when we played that the only remaining card at a location was a monster. So when it was Seoni's turn the only card she had was a spell card, she cast it and lost, taking damage but no cards were in her hand so she took no damage. Then the card got recharged. Next round came and it was the same monster of course and she attempted a second time to win and lost again, placing the monster back under the location and recharging the card. So my question is this a loop hole or one of the rare instances where there should be some common sense poured in?
Seoni has a base hand size of six. How would she flash away five other cards each turn without any ill effects? If she has no cards in hand at the end of her turn that's five cards lost, not including the recharged spell. The loophole you're thinking of would be possible with Sajan, but not Seoni, unless you manage to get her hand to five non-combat Arcane spells and an Arcane Atack spell.
She does not discard the spell when taking damage.
She will be drawing six cards at the end of the turn, and if she does that twice, she'll be dead. I do not think you want her to die on turn 3.
Lepley,
Sounds like you may need to take a look through the Death portion of the rules again. You die if:
You need to reset your hand up to your hand size at the end of your turn, but you don't have enough cards in your discard to do so.
It sounds like in your example that you have no cards in your discard, and one card in your hand. If you cast the spell, recharge it, end your turn, you only have 1 card in your deck to draw, and you need 6 - you die.
I guess im not making my question clear. On page 14 of the rules it says "If you are ever required to draw a card from your deck and cannot,
your character dies." if i am at the end of my drawing deck near the end of my game, and the last and only remaining card I draw is a spell card, it is the only card I have in my hand, and I use it to fight a monster. i take damage from the monster but have no more cards in my hand since i just cast the only card i had, thus i take no damage. That spell card goes back to my draw deck recharged. At the end of the round when i reset my hand, i draw the spell card again and wait till the next turn to fight the monster again, repeating the loop till I defeat the monster.
TECH: i thought as long as you can draw at least ONE card that you are still alive.
Mr. Selinker: As a side note, the game is AWESOME and look forward to future installments!
No, you must draw your entire hand size. If you are playing Seoni, and you have no cards in hand, you must draw six cards during your reset step. If you can't draw all six, you die. Try not to do that.
It's amazing how many people have misunderstood the death rules... can something be added to the FAQ to clear this up?
Sorry, but I'm having trouble being able to see exactly what would help here.
This is what the rules say.
updated rules, p. 9 wrote: Finally, if you have fewer cards than your hand size, you must draw cards until the number of cards in your hand matches your hand size. updated rules, p. 14 wrote: If you are ever required to draw a card from your deck and cannot, your character dies. Can you tell me where the misinterpretation is coming from so we can look at addressing it?
Mike
Mike Selinker wrote: Sorry, but I'm having trouble being able to see exactly what would help here.
This is what the rules say.
updated rules, p. 9 wrote: Finally, if you have fewer cards than your hand size, you must draw cards until the number of cards in your hand matches your hand size. updated rules, p. 14 wrote: If you are ever required to draw a card from your deck and cannot, your character dies. Can you tell me where the misinterpretation is coming from so we can look at addressing it?
Mike
I think the rule covers it, but for some reason people read it and think that the rule on page 9 is only a single instance of applying the rule on page 14. Like this:
Valeros: I've only got 2 cards in my hand and my hand size is 4. I'm resetting my hand so I need to draw cards. Hmm... there is only 1 card in my character deck. Well, I was able to draw "a" card, so I guess I'm not dead.
Hasrk: I think you are dead.
Valeros: No, I'm not.
Harsk: Lets check the FAQ.
They basically begin to apply the page 9 rule and then as long as in the sequence of of drawing cards they were able to draw "a" card they feel they didn't die. They apply the page 14 rule a single time to the requirement on page 9 instead of to each individual draw of a card required by page 9.
Specifically I think h4ppy's point about the FAQ isn't that the rule is unclear, but rather that it is a frequently asked question. (Or rather a frequently noticed problem, but its an FAQ not an FNP.) So it might not be a bad idea to put it somewhere it can quickly be found.
So if we wedged "If you can't, your character dies." in there, it might cover things. We'll take a look at that.
Yeah. I think that would help immensely with this. The two rules are 5 pages apart right now, so putting them in one sentence would make it abundantly clear.
I still don't understand how they are misinterpreting that. You have a hand-size printed right on the character card, and the rule listed clearly states that you have to draw back up to your hand-size at the end of the resetting your hand phase. I mean if they want to intentionally be obtuse and invent something so their poor play doesn't result in a character death, fine, but the rule on page 9 is plenty clear enough.
Lord knows, there were plenty of things in this game that weren't crystal clear, but this isn't one of them imho.
I don't know how it's being misunderstood but I've seen several people posting comments and strategies here then realising that they don't work because their character's actually dead...
Seems like a, quite literal, FAQ here along the lines of "If I need to draw 2 cards to make up my hand size at the end of my turn but there's only one left in my deck, can I just draw one card instead?"
Answer: No. You're dead.
The worst part about it is that these are only the people we know about. I have to believe most players never get on the boards or check the FAQ. This is also the reason why I believe those who think the gMe is too easy are nerfing the game. It is somewhat natural to try to eke out an interpretation that let's you avoid losing.
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Bidmaron wrote: The worst part about it is that these are only the people we know about. I have to believe most players never get on the boards or check the FAQ. This is also the reason why I believe those who think the gMe is too easy are nerfing the game. It is somewhat natural to try to eke out an interpretation that let's you avoid losing. Isn't that an unsolvable problem though? Paizo cannot make it much easier to find the correct interpretation of the rules without harvesting customer emails and blasting them with every new FAQ or erratum. Google is the gamer's friend.
I got the game for Xmas and I am having a blast, playing solo with the Grrrl Power group of Seoni/Kyra/Amiri/Merisiel. This is EXACTLY what I wanted. I play Mage Knight too, and it rocks, but that's not what I want here.
My pre-gift impression of many of the unfavorable reviews is that taken in isolation each scenario can be too easy (and non-thematic). I am finding that sometimes they come out easy and sometimes they are complete nail-biters, but so long as I think about it, I can win. To me that's not easy, it's just not soul-crushingly difficult. Nobody wants to play an RPG (or surrogate) where one or more of your characters die every session.
I had come to the conclusion that realistically, I am unlikely to play PFRPG or any similar system unless it's technologically automated a whole lot more - just don't have enough time. This game comes pretty darn close to scratching that itch. After making the apparently common error of recharging Seoni's spells too freely, I've now played through the intro Adventure and the first scenario of AP Adventure 1. Heck I am considering buying the Runelords Book just to help fill in the back story, even if I never run it. So to me, yes it has enough theme despite the occasional Bunyip-out-of-water dissonance. I feel 15 years old all over again (50th birthday later this month, sadly).
So at the risk of redundancy, thanks to Mike and team for an awesome game and thanks to these boards (and BGG) for making it a richer experience.
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It is a totally awesome game. I just passed the 50 yard line three yards Ago myself
I wasn't playing it that way, as I understood the wording of 'draw up to your hand size', but that's only because I've played a lot of magic the gathering.
But I can completely understand where people are being confused, especially given that those two rules are 5 pages apart in the book.
"Draw up to your hand size" Ok!
"Dead if I can't draw" Ok!
They both make sense, but then you hit the "I have two cards in my deck and I need to draw 4 cards to fill my hand to 6. I can't draw to my hand size, but I can draw. Since I am able to draw some cards when I'm required to draw, I must be fine."
That's a reasonable way to interpret the way the death rule is written. It's obviously wrong to anyone that has played a card game before. But not for people that are new to the idea of drawing an exact number of cards for exact reasons.
Also the whole people are saying it's easy so they must be playing wrong? Could just be they are using Kyra or not. We found the Lost Coast and pretty much all of Burnt Offerings super easy with Kyra and Ezren. So it may just be the characters and number of that are causing people to comment on the ease or difficulty of the game.
I can understand where people were confused since frankly I was one of them. :) The boards have helped clear a lot of questions up. I think in a game like this, examples help explain a lot.
ex: if you can't draw your hand size, you die . . . for example:
"Seoni has 2 cards, need to draw 4 more to her hand size, but only has 3 cards left in her deck, therefore she has died"
I know that this may be commenting to a almost year old post, but As I found this looking for an answer to exactly this question...
I am an experianced card player, to include MTG. And I ran into this issue myself. What made it difficult is this specific situation isn't directly addressed, you have to combine two rules that are pages apart, and a player looking for a specific ruling will look in a specific place.
So, Page 13 says if you are required to remove 1 or more cards from your deck, and can not, your dead.
Page 9 states you must reset your hand size.
However i had to come to here just to find out they are linked. My thought process on it was.. Since the cards are just like my health, Even though I can only draw 4 instead of 5.. I still have 5 health...
As wrong as that thought is, it is not unreasonable.
I know that from Last post to now, many changes has been made, but a simple fix would be as follows..
On Page 11, adding to end of Reset Your hand
..."If you can nor draw enough cards to reset your full hand size, you are dead. (See Dying, Page 13)
Such will give an immediate link and a LOT of clarity
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