After reading another thread on Jade Regent, I am thinking of having one of the players take on the campaign roll Ameiko rather than having NPCs play such an important roll. I would let the PC make up most of their background, but they would have a little of it imposed by me.
So my question is .... I have not read all six modules yet. Is there something I need to make sure I set up now to ensure I can make the story work? Is there something I need to ensure I provide in one of the other 3 PCs? Also, do you see any big problems with trying this?
Any other ideas about starting Jade Regent?
Thanks!!
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Remember that there were several ruling families. Make each PC a descendant of one of the families... the one that emerges as the natural leader of the party will likely end up being the one who becomes Emperor/Empress, with the others being his/her daimyo or vassals. That is what I would do, but it depends on the PCs. If all of their characters are foreigners, then that wouldn't work obviously...
What I am planning in my campaign is to keep Ameiko, but rather than make her the "too important" NPC, I am going to make sure that she approaches each of the PCs a lot, treating them as advisors. That way they still feel important.
But as to your initial question, I do not see a problem other than what was mentioned by Duiker. Be careful of putting too much on one PC... unless you are sure that your group can handle that.
The thing is that this intensifies the problem that most people have with Ameiko. She's too important, so she takes the spotlight and importance away from the heroes. But it's hardly better to put that spotlight on one of the players instead, if anything it's worse, because now one of the players gets to be special and the rest don't.
If I went down this route, I would do something that takes a bit more work: remove Ameiko, twist the plot such that the problem is that the heir is unknown, but it's known through macguffins that it is one of the PCs. So that adds a mystery element, allows suspension of disbelief, etc.
Alternately, a similar thing would be that ALL of the PCs are heirs. And the chosen one of the people/gods/whatever will be the one crowned in the climax.
It's definitely more work, but I think it makes it more rewarding for the players.
Good feedback, I like it. Either one or all of the PCs are heirs is interesting. I will give that some thought.
Another point is that one of the main draws of Jade Regent is the asian theme, but the PCs quickly travel to another territory. I might try to have them stay in an asian location for the modules - thoughts on this?
Remember that there were several ruling families. Make each PC a descendant of one of the families... the one that emerges as the natural leader of the party will likely end up being the one who becomes Emperor/Empress, with the others being his/her daimyo or vassals. That is what I would do, but it depends on the PCs. If all of their characters are foreigners, then that wouldn't work obviously...
What I am planning in my campaign is to keep Ameiko, but rather than make her the "too important" NPC, I am going to make sure that she approaches each of the PCs a lot, treating them as advisors. That way they still feel important.
But as to your initial question, I do not see a problem other than what was mentioned by Duiker. Be careful of putting too much on one PC... unless you are sure that your group can handle that.
Even better.....incorporating the five families is a great idea... Thanks for responding to my concern about having problems with the entire AP if I change things here up front.
Another point is that one of the main draws of Jade Regent is the asian theme, but the PCs quickly travel to another territory. I might try to have them stay in an asian location for the modules - thoughts on this?
Actually, the party begins in the Golarion equivalent of Europe, then travels (via the Arctic) to the Tian Xia, which is the eastern/southern Asia-equivalent. The entire second half of the AP takes place in Tian Xia.
Ameiko's family are immigrants in Varisia, and were originally (some generations back) from Tian Xia. If the players want to focus on the Asian theme, then they can play the descendants of Ameiko's family's retainers - thus allowing from the start Tian Xian characters with classes like Samurai, Ninja, etc. Of course, they would not be up-to-date on the latest political events back home ... :)
Depends on the group, I'm having a player run Ameiko and it seems to be working fine for everyone though I also made it very clear that all of the party are considered Amatatsu. Looking back though making it that there is no heir and that the party is simply chosen by the Amatatsu Seal could work well too.
We're in book 4 so far and its been lots of fun. The first two books are a blast. The third one has its moments but benefits from significant pruning.
I strongly recommend having Ameiko as a PC (and as a Bard). But you should ensure that whoever plays Ameiko isn’t someone who will lord it over everyone else and insist that they do exactly what she says “because I’m the Empress” because that will wreck the campaign.
Make sure that your PCs know each other before the campaign starts; they shouldn’t be a bunch of strangers with random character classes who meet in the pub. It will probably help if some or all of them are related to Ameiko.
In our group Ameiko is a melee-focused Bard who is a combination of Viking shieldmaiden (think Lagertha from TV’s “Vikings”) and “Team Mom”, who also happens to be the prospective Empress.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TeamMom
She most definitely isn’t a whiny “oh look at me aren’t I wonderful” type of character, which I gather seems to be a very common way that NPC Ameiko is played. Whilst she gets a few extra benefits these come with the big disadvantage that comes with the target that is on her back.
Any players who whine over the fact that someone else is playing the Empress should be told to grow up.
The Ameiko-specific encounters, most of which treat her as a damsel in distress that the PCs have to rescue, can easily be revised. For example, when the party got to Brinewall rather than have Ameiko lapse into a coma my group’s Ameiko had to make a DC20 Fortitude save every day (at dawn) or suffer 1 point of CON drain because of the stress that the dreams were putting on her. The DC increased by 1 for every day that she remained there, stopping only after she touches the Amatatsu Seal.
Ignore the caravan combat rules (they don’t work). The logistics rules are pretty good.
I was going to take the GM duties away from my wife and run this one - we made characters for it and everything - but then Wrath of the Righteous came out and took immediate priority.
My plan was to keep Ameiko as is, except that I made her class the Bard archetype Geisha. I played Shalelu as best friend and bodyguard (staying close to her rather than out adventuring) while the other two caravan PC's were to fade into the background more as Experts rather than getting PC class levels.
Personally I think its better to keep Ameiko as both an NPC and the 'background' focus of the campaign. The PC's get to play rescuer and king-maker - I don't think she'll steal the spotlight as much as give you an effective means to drive the story. Making the PC's all heirs to the empire or having the seal choose foreigners who know nothing of the empire's culture, history or even language to rule both push the bounds of believability in my opinion.
I think people forget the key plot point at the end of book 1 which makes all of the pcs Amatatsu scions, which means at that point all of them are able to assume the throne of Minkai, which then makes Ameiko disposable.
My IRL game is getting to the point where, well due to character death, players coming and leaving the game, that now only one character other than Ameiko is a scion. I guess I could fudge it so the seal can include the rest of the party. Oh well...
But my Alchemist is seriously considering killing her off so that he can assume control. The other seals also have the right to choose a scion, so well we will see what happens.
On the damsel in distress tip, it works once for Brinewall but in Kalsgard better would be to roll a four sided die for the kidnap.
I'm sure that family sword of Ameiko's would take a dim view of a PC killing her off just to get her out of the way. Honestly, if it were me, I'd have such a dishonorable act disqualify the PC as a scion.
Though my gaming group pretty much hated the AP, so the point is moot.
The player out of character vs in character... letting her die versus killing her yourself...
I have one character who wants to runaway from every encounter...
I am a player in Jade Regent (i am DMing Shattered Star) and we just finished book 5.
I also would have liked it better if the whole heir thing, Ameiko and a bunch of NPCs was handled differently.
Another way to tweak it that just occurred to me, that might be slightly awkward, but also be way less changes to the AP as written: tack 20 years onto Ameiko's age, all the characters are her children, and have Ameiko be slowly dying of plot device. Establish that the throne she is heir to always goes to the best heir, not the oldest.
Again, it might strain credibility, but it gets a lot of the strengths of these other suggestions while also minimizing any changes to the AP.
That could really work but would limit the race choice of the players to humans, half elves and half orcs. Still i really like the sound of that.
And no need to worry about the eldest son thing and change it to best heir thing.In order for an heir to take the jade throne of Minkai, he has to recieve the blessing of the previous emperors of Minkai, so don't worry about having the oldest son being the heir.
The problem is how to let the players know that without "spoilering" them.
If your players are mature enough my suggestion is the following:
Make them play the NPCs, the genders can easily be changed (the hardest is Koya), keep their background and all. Let them build the characters from the beggining and level them to 4, have Shandru drop the rogue thing and have him as fighter (or the the new swashbuckler class, if you allow him to take feats in the golarion books it can work), don't force to Koya the old age adjustments.
The only problem is that the party doesn't have an arcane caster so my suggestion on that is to drop Shalelu (it pains me to suggest that, i love this character's story) and instead have someone play a wizard/sorcerer.
Also dump the first part of the first book and start them at Brinewall castle, also drop the whole
"the seal tries to contanct Ameiko and plunges her into a coma".
How would i do it:
One warm mid summer sunny day in Sandpoint...
Ameiko is up since dawn and manages the affairs of the Glassworks when suddenly the door to her office opens up and there like conjured from a distand memory stands Shandru, one hand on his belt the other fist on his face and leaning to the door, and says (in the immortal words of Joey Tribbiani) "How you doin'?".
The players RP thinking of their old adventuring days a little then decide to go to the rusty dragon for food and ale.
There you have Shalelu join them (if you decide to keep her as an NPC it's all right, it is after all a friend of Ameiko who only recently solved her emotional problems) but you also bring Koya to the inn and to the table to talk with them.
As the players RP their characters talking and drinking some of Gaven's excellent ale, you have a swirl of eldritch energy push back tables and chairs in the center of the inn and after an instant a short man appears, he is a strange one, he has skin different than the dark Varissians and the fair Chelaxians and the red skinned Shaonti, his eyes are norrower than most men and seem almost deep inside their sockets, he wears robes with symbols that clearly belong to the Art but aren't recognizable, (here you add any other description the player wants), he holds a yellow-ish scroll and he coughs golden dust.
Now you have the player explain that he is an apprentice (he is only level 4) to the great wizard *insert Tien wizard name* and that his master send him here in a land far far away to find the last legitimate heir to the Jade Throne and after he finds him he is to guide him or her to her destiny, which lies back home in the distant Tian Xia and specifically to the island-empire of Minkai. Here you have the Shalelu give to Ameiko something he found in Brinestump marsh (the wakizasi found in the cave and the letter hidden in the hilt). Now the players use Shandru's caravan to travel to Brinewall.
2 more things, first ditch the caravan rules, i found them a hassle and the combat system breaks very badly in book 3, second you can have the master of the tian wizard/sorcerer PC be in league with
Sikutsu Itsuru, the good brother of the evil and cruel daimyo
whether the player plaing the wizard knows this or not is up to you.
EDIT: You will also have to beef up the Brinewall castle since the PCs will be one level higher than expected.