In advance, I apologize about asking this and for the length of it, because I'm 99.9% sure I'm correct, I just don't know how to show my DM that. (I've only been playing for a few months so please bear with me) Now my guy is a mounted fighter, now level 11 with the main feats being spirited charge and power attack(-2/+8) using a lance. (Kind of an all or nothing glory attack) Now I don't know if it's real or a in-house thing, but an NPC I helped gave me a lance that deals double strength instead of the normal times and a half and armor that gives me +2 strentgh (24 strentgh total so you know where my math comes from)so I'm calculating that a spirited charge with power attack would deal 3d8+24 power attack+42 strength modifier+6 weapon training 2+6 weapon specialization for a total of 3d8+78, I can't figure out the crit of the top of my head. For 102 max possible damage. He is saying I'm doing it wrong and that spirited charge only effect die rolls and not the add-ons (and yes he read the description of it in the core rulebook, that's how he believes it works) that would leave me a grand total of 3d8+26 (50 possible damage) that would make it useless because i can just regular power attack twice and have my horse attack to deal much more damage then that (68 possible damage from me alone) but he said the way I'm doing math would make my guy broken. Yet, or Druid has transformed into a 12 headed hydra and (with some criticals and some misses) attacked with all 12 heads and dealt 210 damage. At level 11. Could someone please help me in showing my point and back it up with additional things from the books (any of the pathfinder, i only have the core) or tell me I am wrong, which in that case I will apologize to my DM. My thing is though if a spirited charge only multiplied d rolled, then why have it because it would be the same thing as vital strike.
You are correct in terms of how spirited charge works. It multiplies damage, not just weapon damage.
However, your power attack calculation seems to be off. I know that your lance allows you to use double your str mod on damage, but that doesn't mean it doubles power attack damage (this may be the case, but that was not mentioned). Additionally, if you are a lvl 11 fighter, you base power attack should be -3/+6.
Ok, the power attack thing makes sense. I thought it seemed to be a bit too good. The spirited charge needs to be re-worded I think because it says (When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance)) and the DM is saying because it says damage with a melee weapon (specifying the type of weapon) means it is talking about the damage just the weapon does. Thank you very much, I will discuss this with him again and hope he agrees with me.
Watch how you say it to him as he may say you can't do it if he gets pissed at you for calling him out on it.
Though cavalier would have been a better choice for you.
I wouldn't go at him in a way that would piss him off, we've been friends for years, so I know how to approach him. Thank you for the word of caution though. And when I created my character, all I had was the core rulebook so I didn't know about cavalier at the time, but it's all good.
You've done the math weirdly, OP, but according to what you've given me, I calculate pretty similarly to you:
Base damage: 1d8 + 14(str*2) + 2(weapon specialisation) + 2(weapon training) + 9 (power attack at -3/+9)
= 1d8 + 27
When using spirited charge with lance, this entire calculation is tripled. Thus, you end up with
= 3d8 + 81
or on a critical,
= 5d8 + 135
This is actually slightly more than what you've put down, but your attack bonus is 1 less than you have calculated. You automatically get the extra power attack damage from using a lance one handed regardless of your special lance---- I've copied the FAQ ruling below.
Power Attack: If I am using a two-handed weapon with one hand (such as a lance while mounted), do still I get the +50% damage for using a two-handed weapon?
Yes.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 05/25/13
Ok, thank you. I probably did do the math a little weird, I've been up too long and need to sleep. Thank you everyone for your inputs.
And keep in mind this faq, tells you that if you wield a weapon one-handed you use the one-handed strength modifier and power attack. Which contradicts the earlier FAQ, so I'm not sure which one is valid.
Whether the lance uses one-handed or two-handed rules is still up in the air; there's been a (differeny) ruling on the topic after the ruling quoted above, but it didn't explicitly invalidate the ruling for lances. Fun fact: NPC Codex has examples of both interpretations.
But the damage multiplier for a charge is absolutely for the full amount. Just find a published statblock with a lance, that should solve the issue.
I suggest you show your GM the wording for Vital Strike, and compare to Spirited Charge. The former is dice only, the latter all static (non bonus dice) damage.
That said, if he chooses to make a home ruling on it, accept it. Also... He may have given you that lance with a more limited attack in mind.
Rikkan wrote: And keep in mind this faq, tells you that if you wield a weapon one-handed you use the one-handed strength modifier and power attack. Which contradicts the earlier FAQ, so I'm not sure which one is valid. I think this does not apply to a lance.
FAQ wrote: When a feat or other special ability [b]says to treat a weapon that is normally wielded in two hands as a one handed weapon[b/] I think it is referring to lines like thunder and fang
SRD wrote: You can use an earth breaker as though it were a one-handed weapon as opposed to lance.
SRD wrote: While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand. Also lance is specifically called out in the other FAQ.
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