The Art of XP: How do you award it?


Advice


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Greetings.

I don't usually use XP in my Pathfinder campaigns; I just can't stand the paperwork. If you're running (most) APs, I advise you to just ditch it. But, I do see the value in it for hombrew campaigns that might not have clear benchmarks like Adventure paths do.

In fact, I see XP as an integral part of the Kingmaker Adventure Path, which I'm currently running.

The process of awarding XP has gotten considerably more "enlightened" over the course of editions. Story awards are the norm, victory does not necessarily mean murder, and so forth.

However, the actual process of awarding XP is still pretty vague. The issues of how to handle captives, or partial victories, or players who run away with the intent to deal with the situation later, are all wide open. I've tried to set out some general rules for fractional awards, but each time I quickly descend down a philosophical rabbit hole. It is dreadful.

In this thread, I'm interested in hearing from people who award experience points, and what their rules of thumb are for dealing with weird situations that are not clear-cut.

I'll start with an example: The party encounters a (randomly generated) giant whiptail centipede in its lair. The centipede ambushes them, poisons one of their horses. The players realize they are out-matched, and (wisely) flee.

In reality, we learn as much or more from our failures as we do from our triumphs. One school of thought is to say the "victory condition" of this encounter was "escape with your lives". Another school of thought is that the PCs did not defeat the creature, and so receive nothing.

In the end, I awarded 25% XP — the remaining 75% to be awarded when the creature was finally dealt with.

But if you actually award XP for any period of time in a real campaign with nuanced encounters, you are constantly running into these weird issues! So how do you keep from over/under-rewarding the players? Do you have any specific formulas that you use? What do you tell your players?

Please contribute to the general wisdom, and do not bicker. People who don't use XP: I feel your pain, but this is not the place to put that system on trial.


I tend to be generous with XP. If a party achieves whatever may be construed as a 'goal' with an encounter, they earn full XP, and I am liberal in interpreting what a goal may be and whether it is achieved. Since the encounter was random, there was no plot-related goal, so the only goal would be to survive the encounter. In that case, I would give full XP for that escape. If the goal was to get past the centipede to a location it was blocking, I wouldn't give XP until a way past it was found.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I also take play-time at the table into account. Did the players flee on the first round of combat? If so, then a minor award, if any, should be given. However, if my PC just went through a pitched battle lasting two hours at the table, and we barely escaped with our characters alive, and I didn't get XP for it... I'd be a bit miffed.


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For my next campaign I plan to award XP based on Goals achieved. Basically take all the XP they could possibly get in an adventure, put it into one big Award pot and then break it down into success levels.

If they botch it and completely fail 25% of the award
Just barely pulled off the minimum level of success 50% of the award
Not a bad job, missed a few things here and there, left a few plot threads dangling etc... 75% of the award.
Did a damn good job and wrapped up most of the problems 100% of the award
Total success, dotted every eye and crossed every t and even managed to set up a couple of things I hadn't thought of that will benefit them down the road 125% of the award (EX: not only did they stop the goblins from raiding the village but they have managed to recruit them to their side and sent them to harass the evil kingdom to the north)


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My XP system:

Combat XP: 25% of the listed value for defeating an opponent / 10% for a draw / 5% for a loss. Yes I don't give much combat XP at all. Fighting really isn't the answer in many cases. But there are time when that is the only way to resolve something.

Story Awards: These depend largely on character level and adventure pacing. They are usually ~50%-60% of the amount needed to level spaced into the adventure at points where I want you to level at. This is similar to the people who don't use XP and just level you when it is time to do so... except mine happens in thematically appropriate moments and with lower awards (to adjust for the XP they are getting elsewhere).

Teamwork award: +20% earned XP bonus for excellent teamwork all session/ +10% if teamwork is followed but has gaps or other flawed situations.

Roleplay award: +25% earned XP bonus for exemplary playing of your character's background/personality/motivation / +10% always stayed in character but did nothing to stand out / +5% played in character most of the time.

Leave No Man Behind award: +20% earned XP award if you fall below the party's level.

The Ad Hoc prize: Similar to combat XP above but 10%-20% of a same level CR challenge. Usually given out for good ideas, humor, or other special moments we all LOVE to see when we play. Award depends on how awesome the event was.


I give out XP at the end of each session just so the players can see their progress... but calculating the awards is pretty simple.

Combat: I use the values for the CR of an encounter as found on the GM screen.

Traps: XP for the whole party as if combating the trap

Accomplishing goals: I give out an XP award equal to a combat against a CR of APL -2 for each minor goal completed, and an award equal to a CR of APL -1 for each major goal.

This makes combat the "hard way" to gain lots of XP, because accomplishing goals is a lot easier and less likely to use up tons of resources.

There is a little more detail to my combat XP awards in that the party gets full XP for the encounter 1 way or another.

If they defeat the opposition they get full XP automatically.

If the enemy flees but will be faced again before it has time to replenish its resources they get half for the first encounter and half for the second - they get nothing extra if the baddy flees more because the 3rd and subsequent encounters before getting back its resources pretty much won't be a challenge of any kind.

If the enemy flees and the party won't face it again, or will face it again at its full power, they get full XP

If the party flees they get full XP if they never have to face the creature again (for realizing they are wasting time and resources in battling it), but don't get the XP if they are going to have to come back and deal with the same encounter again (because you get no XP until you defeat the encounter).

I also give full XP for defeating an encounter if the party actively bypasses it - such as seeing monsters and then strategically avoiding them, or talking their way through something instead of resulting to violence, but not for simply have the luck not to experience the encounter at all.

Paizo Employee

I'm running Rise of the Runelords now, using XP.

My approach is that if they were aware of the encounter and it gets resolved in any way, they get full XP. Killed everything? Full XP. Snuck past? Full XP. Talked their way through? Full XP.

If we're talking about encounters while traveling, fleeing is probably full XP.

Exploring? Full XP, unless they need to find out what's in that cave for some reason.

If, on the other hand, they're trying to clear hexes for habitation, I probably wouldn't reward XP (or mark that hex cleared) until they dealt with stuff.

Typically, if there's any doubt, I just give them the full amount.

Cheers!
Landon

Silver Crusade

If running an AP, we just level up when the DM says. OR if running one I tell my players when I think they leveled.

Other options is so much bookkeeping. Gives me to leeway to award a level or two if they spend a couple sessions simply doing roleplay and interacting with each other or my environment and not slaying a single thing.

IF I break things down by encounter xp.. its as you said. 25% for fleeing, and the other 75% if they go back and resolve it. If they resolve it amazingly I may award over 100% if I like it(dm fiat)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

While I ditched xp from my Kingmaker game ages ago, I still occasionally like to use xp but I have some cardinal rules:

1) All xp goes into a shared pool. When the pool of xp hits certain amounts that's when the PCs level up.

2) XP is granted at the end of each session and is OBJECTIVE based, not ENCOUNTER based. Here's an example:

"Objective: Stop the Bandit Lord's raids on caravans.
XP reward: 3,000 xp
Other Rewards: +2 Longsword of Bandit Slaying"

Spoiler:

However the PCs want to accomplish this is up to them. Killing everyone in the Bandit King's Bandit Castle is of course an option. But perhaps they might use the bags of flour lying around, some creative use of ghost sounds and dancing lights to convince the Bandit King and his cronies the castle is haunted and scare them off. Perhaps they might sneak in, and assassinate the bandit king. Or show up and challenge him to single combat for leadership of his bandits. No matter the PC's approach the reward is the same.

3) XP is divided by the amount of people who participated in completing the objective. So if 4 PCs and 2 helpful NPCs helped out then the XP is divided 6 ways. Animal companions/familiars/eidolons don't count towards this total, but henchmen and followers do.

4) It's assumed if a PC isn't there for a session they were on some adventure of their own which earned them a commensurate amount of XP.

Grand Lodge

In my home game I let each player know how much closer they are to the next level as a percentage. Example "John your ranger is now 3.15 after tonight's game." He knows he is 15% above level 3. This allows me to spend no more than 5 minutes total on the calculation and also gives me complete control on how fast they are leveling.

As a GM I always hated spending 45 minutes at the end of an night's gaming figuring out how much expo to hand out.

A good pace for my group was around 10 to 20% of a level after 4 hours of gaming, a little more at low levels and a little less at high levels.

Hope this helps.


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I don't track XP. When I feel it is time for the group to level up, they all just level up. All PCs level at the same time and are the same level, even if individual play time or contribution is different.

When to level is based mostly on amount of time played since last leveling and story advancement, rather than how many monsters were killed. If I'm running a module and it says they should be a certain level at a certain point, then they level up at that point.


In general, we use XP very loosely, awarding it for the sense of "wow we got xp", and then promptly going "Ok it's time to level up, so go to level X". However, since your request was how we use XP in the traditional sense, I'll give my method for back when I ran games that made full use of the XP rules.

1. Full XP for death of monsters/enemies
2. Full XP for RP solution to Monster/Enemies (diplomacy/bluff/etc)
3. Full XP for stealth PAST monsters/enemies on way to other goal
4. No XP for retreat (in the giant centipede example, you earn nothing for failing to engage an encounter in some meaningful way. If the party sent the rogue in to sneak past it and search it's nest/lair, then full xp would have been awarded per #3. If there was a story goal related to "making an area safe" then stealth would earn no XP, as the goal isn't resolved)
5. Story Awards for accomplishing goal equal to the equivalent of 1-3 "full encounters" depending on severity and difficulty of goal. This is in addition to any "monster" XP earned in the course of pursuing that goal.
6. Individual XP rewards to great RP or use of class skills. Amount varies, but typically 10-15% of a full encounter. (Mostly to prevent any one player from creeping ahead because they're a more developed RPer OOC).
7. Situational awards as needed.

Granted, I only use this system if I want to play a really old school campaign, filled with random encounters that make no sense and dungeons that defy logical set up. Like most of the other players/gms I know, we just level up as appropriate for the story/progression.


Bump.

More responses please!


Although I don't use XP myself, I'd consider an appropriate guideline to be whether the PCs were challenged by the encounter and also how relevant the monster's abilities were to what happened.

For example if I see a troll in the distance through my telescope and decide that it's too tough, so I just walk away, I haven't really faced any challenge. I'd award some XP but certainly not all. Also the fact that it's a troll is largely irrelevant, it could have been the tarrasque and if I'd avoided it as easily then it wouldn't have been any more challenging. (Although I'd award XP for just seeing the tarrasque based on sheer awesomeness).

For avoiding an encounter like this, I would make it a flat XP award (maybe APL-1 as a rough guess) rather than base it on the CR of the creature involved or a percentage of the XP that would have been gained.

However if you run away once you've encountered the creature, then it's going to more difficult to run away from a more powerful monster. In these cases a percentage of the XP is more appropriate.


I give xp for "defeating" the situation. That basically means resolving the situation. If it turns into a fight and they run away they generally don't get xp for that. Their reward is living. :-)
Making allies of the difficulty does count as resolving the situation - I'm GMing Kingmake as well. My party recruits almost anything that walks or crawls, and given that I take a RL attitude to animals - INT scores go up to 5, and they have a Druid, they really do recruit damned near everything. Xp awared is the same for killing monster as recruiting it.

Quests I give the recommeded xp for on resolution.

Political stuff I give xp awards by feel.
I give the same xp to all, including PC's missing a session due to RL. I'm not interested in players competing with each other.

When I did get xp level difference amongst the players, because of a Deck of many things, I calculate XP based on the average party level, give that to the highest xp character, then anyone on the same level but more than half a level behind get +5%, anyone on lower level gets +10% (technically +10% per level, but no ones more than 1 level behind).

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