Barb build critique, please


Advice


On to my 8th PFS character, and it's time for a melee type, 1st character archery ranger (now 10), 2nd conjurer (9), 3rd archery cleric (8), 4th witch (5), 5th sword and board fighter (5.2), 6th saurian druid (3), 7th funny touch cleric/sorcerer dip (3)

So, barbarian, since I've never made anything that smashes

intro:

A child of the harsh deserts of Osirion...

Moved to Sothis young, a bit of an outcast by birth as a half-orc in a city of humans, he found answers in the underground cult of Norborger initially. There was something he liked about it. Liberating items and lives from their rightful owners. But then he was reminded of Rovagug from a Belkzen assasin (Rovagug is quite popular in the desert), and found his true calling. Everything is wrong, and must be destroyed. Eventually anyway. It's going to happen. And he'll help it along as he can.

Dangerously Curious? Yes.

PFS is rationalized by the theory that accumulation of power is dangerous, and the more powerful the Pathfinder Society gets, the greater the chance of it exploding or being subverted or misused. Idealists are the most dangerous people in the world, anyway.

build summary: religion/Rovagug is a big part of this guy. destruction=sunder so he's going for Spell Sunder (and CAGM when he reaches Seeker levels.)

Half Orc (true neutral):
City Raised - no weapon familiarity, prof in whip, +2 to know (local)
Rock Climber (or building climber...) - +1 to acro and climb, lose intimidate
Sacred Tattoo - +1 LUCK bonus on saves, lose orc ferocity

Invulnerable Rager - gain DR (1/2 level)/-, and resist fire or cold (1/3 level, I'll take fire from the desert) - lose uncanny dodge, imp uncanny dodge, and trap sense
Urban Barbarian - Crowd control for +1 dodge and +1 to attack when adjacent to 2 or more enemies, and Controlled Rage option, lose fast movement

Traits:
Dangerously Curious - +1 to UMD and class skill
Fate's Favored - double all luck bonuses - this means +2 luck to all saves with Sacred Tattoo

Starting stats:
STR 18 (+2 racial)
DEX 14
CON 15 (+1 at 4)
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 8

early purchases with prestige points:
wand of divine favor (+1 luck to att and dam, with Fate's Favored that's +2)

Levels all Barbarian
1 - +1hp, Perception +5, UMD +5, Acro +6, Power Attack, mkw greatsword, mwk chain shirt, 2pp on wand of clw, 2pp on wand of divine favor, misc other weapons, potions (enlarge person, bless weapon, magic weapon, clw,) ioun stone for +1 UMD
2 - +1 skill, Perc +6, UMD +6, Know (local) +5, Swim +7, Reckless Abandon
3 - +1 skill, Perc +7, UMD +7, Acro +7, Climb +8, Combat Reflexes, Adamantine Greatsword
4 - +1 skill, Perc +8, UMD +8, Acro +9, Superstitious, +1 Con, +1 to Greatsword, belt of Str +2
5 - +1 skill, Perc +9, UMD +9, Ride +5, Diplo +3, Extra Rage Power (Witch Hunter), +1 cloak of resist, +2 to greatsword
6 - +1 skill, Perc +10, UMD +10, Acro +11, Spell Sunder
7 - +1 hp, Perc +11, UMD +11, Acro +12, Destroyer's Blessing, +4 belt of str or +2 belt of perfection?
8 - +1 hp, Perc +12, UMD +12, Acro +13, Increased DR, +1 STR
9 - +1 hp, Perc +13, UMD +13, Acro +14, Improved Sunder
10 - +1 hp, Perc +14, UMD +14, Acro +15, Increased DR (now 7/-)
11 - +1 hp, Perc +15, UMD +15, Acro +16, Dazing Assault
12 - +1 hp, Perc +16, UMD +16, Acro +17, Come and Get Me, +1 STR

Through level 7's either belt of +4 str or +2 physical perfection, I've accounted for my entire WBL. Past that I'm not sure what I'll get, and perhaps it's better to put off some of these purchases for other items earlier. Circlet of Persuasion, 4500gp for +3 to Cha skills for UMD (and diplo). Jingasa of the Fortunate Warrior for +2 luck to AC (with Fate's Favored) and 1/d negate crit or sneak. Dragonbone divination sticks for 6400gp to get randomly +3 luck to one save for the whole day (+6 with Fate's Favored, which is +4 more than I already have...)

Armor? haven't planned on upgrading it, figure I'm going to get hit every time and hope I have enough hp and DR to survive longer than they do.

UMD with spring loaded wrist sheathes, Divine Favor and possibly lead blades/enlarge at higher level. May be other uses for UMD?

Finally, little cheesy I know, but is it PFS legal to have masterwork tools for ANY skill? That's how the rules seem to read. If so, yeah, +2 to perception, acrobatics, and UMD from masterwork tools. Hmm.. I'm guessing you have to "ready" a tool, so it would be move action that provokes AoO's, but that's just a guess, how I'd rule as GM. But what's the rule? Should mwk tools fill a slot? Eyes or head for perception, feet for acrobatics (I got Air Jordans!), gloves for UMD?

Edit: mwk tools can only give a limited +2 circ bonus to a skill. Limited either by uses (10 with a healer's kit, eg) or in the ways you can use it (need to open the Pathfinder's Chronicle and read it to get the +2). Since this would be adjudicated per GM, I'm guessing this is not PFS legal? Or could I just say, Acro to avoid AoO's but not to keep balance, UMD to activate a wand only, and Perception to act in a surprise round but not to search?

Also, thinking of swapping to Combat Reflexes at 9th and Improved Sunder at 3rd, and belt of physical perfection at 7th. I'll be getting the Adamantine weapon during 3rd level, and will then love to sunder weapons. And spell sunder at 6th, would be nice to already have improved sunder and not wait til 9th. Combat reflexes is great, but enlarged the feat only gets me one extra AoO/r with 14 dex reduced to 12 (though Controlled rage could help me to be flexible with that), and when I get the belt of physical perfection during 7th level Combat reflexes will become more valuable, since it would then give me at least 2 extra AoO's while enlarged.


Seriously guys, nobody has any comment?

Feedback from folks who've played similar barbarian builds would be especially appreciated.


You have the I AM Barbarian build and yes it is effective. The build has its own Guide and no new feats / rage powers have come out making the feats for the I AM Barbarian obsolete.

You did add UMD into the mix, which is smart.

That said, I prefer Unexpected Strike and Ghost Rager replacing Improved Sunder and Witch Hunter. I also prefer going either Human or Dwarf for the improved saves from Dwarf racial traits and Human favorite class alternative option.


Daredevil boots for +5 comp to Acro to avoid AoO's for 1400gp a must, plus if you move through an enemy's square untyped +1 to attack that enemy.

And I'm liking the half-orc's sacred tattoo/fate's favored resonance for +2 luck to all saves for the half orc, and double effectiveness of wand of divine favor... though destroyer's blessing, obviously the backbone to the build, may be unnecessary, since it only gives you rounds of rage back, and in PFS, you're not running out of rounds of rage after 1st level, unless you have a rage power that spends several rounds of rage per use...

But thanks for chiming in. Unexpected strike and Ghost rager I'll look at.

Edit: hmmm. ghost rager looks useful situationally, when I need touch AC or am fighting incorporeals... Unexpected strike is awesome, that's definitely replacing one of the increased DR's.

Liberty's Edge

It's a very standard barbarian. Nothing interesting or innovative.

Not sure what kind of feedback you wanted.

Grand Lodge

I agree with rangerjeff. The reason to run Destroyer's Blessing is really for multiple rage round using abilities, like raging brutality. Also, some some insight for your weapon: the perfect barb weapon usually is 18-20 going +1, then furious, then keen, then +2, then courageous. It's fairly expensive, but you can usually fully achieve it in the 10s by the end of PFS. I'd recommend the no-dachi (though yes until you can get keen GS pulls very slightly ahead in damage).

Best armor is without a doubt celestial mail, but a mithral breastplate (agile) is preferred, but you'll need alternative methods of flight. And never plan on being hit every time. It does add up, and painfully. What you want is to avoid iteratives and mook attacks reliably.


That's what I usually go for, the standard or "ideal" build, then make it a little worse to make it my character. Half orc is supposed to be worse. stats are a little well-rounded to be ideal, as many would dump int and cha both to 7 and have 16 con and 13 wis to begin with. sunder obsession is probably not normal, either.

Was looking for tweaks like Driver325 provided, now my 8th level rage power will be Unexpected Strike.

I'm probably more acrobatics focused than most barbarians, and am completely neglecting my AC and hoping DR and hp will suffice, and that battle will be over quickly. Not sure if that describes all barbarians, or if some do things differently.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Maybe pack a sweater? The desert gets cold at night! ;-)

It looks good. I'm a big fan of sacred tattoo, and the fate's favored trait is pretty sweet!

Maybe get a staff of divine favor/divine might at high levels, and then you can be large and in charge, with a +6 luck bonus to attack and damage!


Curious, what Staff would let me use Divine Favor/Might at high caster levels? For PFS?

I did a quick search for more stuff that would work with Fate's Favored, and all I came up with was wand of divine favor, Jingasa of the fortunate warrior, and dragonbone divination sticks. Now with Kiinyan's comment, yeah, avoiding mooks and iteratives at least would be nice, so +2 luck to AC from the Jingasa is probably a must.

Anything else work with luck?

Edit: and yeah, +1, furious, keen, +2... but courageous... after I add that, is my enhancement bonus +5? So courageous adds +2 to anything that's getting a more bonus, like strength and con while ragin, and will save. Or just +1, since it's a +2 weapon with special abilities? and what about adamantine? +3000gp worth it to ignore harness and kill golems?

And there's a fair bit of roleplay in this guy. Golarion specific, Osirion specific. Nodachi just feels too Tien, though I appreciate the 18-20 and keen approach. But I'm also not going for improved crit feats.

Knowledge local and Diplomacy are also not common barb tricks. Though I'll only be +5 and +6, that's still enough to be occasionally useful, and make my own rolls.

This guy's not just into sundering/destoying (hmmm... he really should be chaotic neutral I guess...), he's also appreciative of magic (though he doesn't really know much about it book-wise.)

Also, with some final tweaking, by level 12 skills are up to +18 perception (+23 if I eventually get eyes of the eagle), +19 UMD at level 11 so I never fail divine wands of 2nd level max spells, and +25 acrobatics to avoid AoO's so I hopefully have a good chance of not getting swatted as I move up to the 15' reach high-tier baddies, or when I position myself to take advantage of crowd control.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Can you commission staves in PFS? Never played in it myself.

Or just bite the bullet and get 9th level wand of divine favor...

Maybe use a reach weapon and spiked gauntlets? Especially if you're going to be enlarged a lot. If they can't reach you, they can't hit you.


not totally committed on the enlarge approach. I'll probably carry a few potions for when I have time to buff, but I'm thinking with Fate's Favored I'll try to UMD Divine Favor every chance I get as my primary buff.

Though I plan on carrying, in addition to my primary weapon (probably still greatsword, rp wise I like how generic/iconic it is, though a large bastard sword has also crossed my mind,) amentum for my javelins, guisarme for reach trip, Lucerne Hammer for bludgeoning/piercing and brace and sunder armor (which I'll never do probably,) pilum for my opening volley vs shielded bosses, ranseur for reach disarm, and scorpion whip for 15' disarm or trip with less damage.

And again, yeah, duh, furious as 2nd weapon enhancement, that's the kind of advice I need, thanks.

Edit: finally, more rp, picturing roman style equipment in egypt as the Osirion way to go, so greatsword, pilum, javelin, etc. think Gladiator.


No Raging Vitality feat?

Look into it. Its great for keeping you up longer during a rage, and alive once you are downed during a rage.

Personally my first 2 PP always go for a wand of CLW. Most of my characters cant use it themselves, but there should be someone at the table that can.


Oh yeah, that went without saying wand of clw, and I can use it a little bit... with guidance from jade wayfinder, first time I'm playing this guy this week at level 2, out of combat I can +9 UMD, so 50% success, 5% crit fail, so on average 10 uses per day... maybe I should get 2 of each wand I want so if one jams I still have the other to try.

Raging vitality does look great, works well with Controlled Rage, too. But there's nothing I want to give up for it... Combat Reflexes at 9th level maybe, since I'll have to be enlarged to use it (not going reach weapons with Crowd Control, and Daredevil Boots/Acrobatics.)

On weapons, the best is keen (19-20, x3) or keen x4, which are mathematically equal, then keen (18-20, x2), which is about 12% behind on damage. Straight keen x2 is another 12% behind that, so a x2 weapon does about 3/4 damage of a x4 or (19-20, x3). Greatsword is only 6% above that, and 6% behind (18-20, x2). The extra 1.5 it does over the nodachi together with +12 damage starting for both means 19 vs 17.5 average, so the nodachi does about 8% less before considering criticals, so greatsword is better. For nodachi to be better, your extra damage has to be enough that 1.5 is less than 6% difference, or 25 average greatsword, or another +6, so when you're adding +18 damage per hit or more, which is a +4 belt (that I'm not planning to get...), +2 enhancement to weapon, divine favor for +2, or +2 belt, enhancement, divine favor, and 2 points into strength or enlarged... also power attack level 4 pretty much gets you there... so yeah, nodachi after 4th level will be as good or better, but only ever slightly (never more than 6%, and practically not more than 3%.)

Also on weapons, looking at my budget, is Adamantine something I need for 3000gp? Obviously goes well with 3rd level Improved Sunder feat so I have a chance to break non-wooden hafted weapons and armor with a single sunder attempt. Hmm, hardness 10 for steel/non-wooden hafted weapons, 15 for mithral, +2 hardness per enhancement bonus, so adamantine would bypass up to +4 steel or +2 mithral. My average damage by level 3 won't have gone up much, still 19 (21 with divine favor,) so good chance to give broken condition to anything with 40hp or less after bypassing hardness, which includes weapons to +3 (one-handed metal hafted only +2), armor to a bonus of 8 without enhancements, or 6 and +1 enhancement, or 4 and +2... so armor still not great. But this is 3rd level, so not bad. Broken weapons are -2 to attack and damage, and are reduced to just a x2 crit on a 20. Broken armor halves armor bonus, rounded down and double armor check penalties. And broken weapons will be destroyed the 2nd round, if not the 1st. Now the bad guy gets to provoke AoO's when he's reduced to just unarmed strikes for offence.

Without adamantine, I'd only be able to break wooden-hafted or un-enhanced weapons in 1 round. Which sucks.

Edit: hmmm... think I've just discovered an argument for the nodachi. It will do a little less damage on a hit, say 18, which only breaks up to hp 36, which takes one off the AC that I can break with a single hit and gives me more of a chance to not break weapons... except I crit more, especially keen, which gives me a much better chance of crit sundering, which is awesome, guaranteed to break in one round, and will have a decent chance of destroying most weapons with a single hit, too, and is capable of sundering much better armor. Although this line of thinking is risky, relying on the 30% crit chance over the keen greatsword's 20% chance, it does seem to go with the sunder focus, and the Destroyer probably likes criticals a lot... Yeah, alright, you sold me. Nodachi it is.

Another nice thing about the nodachi is that when enlarged/using lead blades, the 1d10 goes to 2d8 then 3d8, while a greatsword goes from 2d6 to 3d6 to 4d6. So a nodachi enlarges much better, keeping the 1.5 less damage with one enlargement, while base dice increase average damage by 3.5 for both, so once crits are factored in, nodachi is easier to get above the greatsword (need another +6 damage above, enlarged you need only +4 or so.) And when double enlarged, the nodachi is only 1/2 point behind the greatsword! Which makes it a flat out better weapon when considering criticals. Which also makes it more likely that I'll try to pursue a triple-buff strategy when possible, divine favor, enlarge, and lead blades (all wisdom) with UMD, at high levels anyway.

Major Edit: Destroyer's Blessing is not PFS legal, dammit... well, Raging Vitality at 7th then and Combat Reflexes at 9th.

Shadow Lodge

rangerjeff wrote:

STR 18 (+2 racial)

DEX 14
CON 15 (+1 at 4)
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 8

...you've only spent 18 points. You're also not spending points effectively if you put your 4th-level bump into the stat other than the one which you overpaid to raise high at character creation. Aside from the occasional UMD check, you're getting very little out of the effective two points "spent" by having a CHA 8 instead of a 7. You're only getting three skills/level with your half-orc.

If you want to play a PFS beatstick with a lot of skills (for OoC UMD), go with...

STR+17
DEX:14
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:14
CHA:07

For more STR-focus....

STR+19
DEX:12
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:12
CHA:07

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Barb build critique, please All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice