Suggestions for PFS Cleric.

[Kysune]

Hello all,

I've been pondering building an archer cleric and I'm finally deciding to make him for my local pfs group. I understand Cleric is not the best option for archer but I'd like to "fight against the grain" anyways.

I'm planning on playing a Halfling Cleric of Erastil (free longbow proficiency) and I've came up with the below stats to play as an archer.

Stats:

STR: 14 - I'm not sure if 14str is too high, but I wanted to keep it above 10 for use with a composite bow.

DEX: 16 - Primary stat of concern here, keeping it high for good to-hit, also got +1atk from small size.

CON: 12 - Not the greatest, but not the worst. I won't be in the front so I probably don't need to invest more in this.

INT: 12 - I'm going Animal Domain and I'll be riding my AC. Normally I'd dump Int but doing so I wouldn't be able to max Ride and Handle Animal. If you have any suggestions please let me know but at later levels I plan on riding my flying Roc AC while bowing people down and casting spells.

UPDATE: Items I'm considering getting throughout my career are -

+1 Composite Longbow (I'll buy effects but I'll be using Greater Magic Weapon to bump it's enchantment bonus up higher to save money)

Bracers of Archery

+1 Animated Shield (I can use this while shooting a bow correct?)

Some additional items that increase dex,con,wis possibly and maybe a few cheap items that raise skills Ride and Handle Animal if they exist? I won't want to fall while on a flying mount but I'll have the Feather domain for the spell Feather Fall (Or I guess I could buy a Feather Fall ring?)

WIS: 14 - Most important stat for Cleric, I plan on boosting Wis at lvl 4, 8, and 12 with my free points.

CHA: 9 - Dumping this stat as best as I can, +2 from Halfling or it would be 7.

I'm planning on focusing my feats in archery, mounted archery, and possibly quicken metamagic feat since I'll be focusing on using my standard for bow and arrow.

Please give me some thoughts and suggestions. I'm gearing for a flying AC mount, and keeping my range for arrows and casting at later levels. Until then I'll be supporting (ranged combat and support spells) my team on the ground while my AC guards me.

[Kysune]

Also, a few items I'm considering getting throughout my career:

+1 Composite Longbow (I'll buy effects but I'll be using Greater Magic Weapon to bump it's enchantment bonus up higher to save money)

Bracers of Archery

+1 Animated Shield (I can use this while shooting a bow correct?)

Some additional items that increase dex,con,wis possibly and maybe a few cheap items that raise skills Ride and Handle Animal if they exist? I won't want to fall while on a flying mount but I'll have the Feather domain for the spell Feather Fall (Or I guess I could buy a Feather Fall ring?)

[RainyDayNinja]

I'd tone down the Strength in exchange for more Dexterity; with only medium BAB and penalties from Rapid Shot and/or Deadly Aim, you'll need all the attack bonuses you can get. I'd go with 12 Str and 18 Dex

You might also consider taking the Crusader archetype; you get one fewer spell of each level per day, but you get some bonus combat feats. For an archer, you'd probably want Weapon Focus at level 1, Shield Focus at level 5 (for use with a buckler), and either Weapon Specialization or Greater Weapon Focus at level 10.

However I don't think you're going to be able to pull off a mounted archer cleric. You just don't have the feats for it.

[David Bowles]

My friend has a really good wood oracle archer. That might be better than a cleric because of the bonus mystery stuff.

[Jiggy]

Divine favor is your friend. Just sayin'.

[David Bowles]

Let's be honest here: magical lineage: divine favor is a better friend.

[Kysune]

You know, I actually did that a few minutes ago to toy around with stats thinking I may have invested a little much in Str since I actually spent 10points in it (just harder to notice since Halflings lose 2str). Great suggestion, glad you also thought the same.

I'm thinking I may want to take a 2 level dip in fighter? Maybe the Archer Archetype for the +1 perception and +5ft range while getting 2 combat feats to help get those mounted feats in?

If I can squeeze two fighter levels in I think adding them both after 4th level would probably be best since I'll have my Animal Companion then and at 5th lvl I can use my free feat on Boon Companion? I believe with 2 levels of Fighter my AC pet will only be 1 HD behind me which isn't too bad.

EDIT: I can't take Oracle as the Animal Companion selection doesn't give me the freedom of a Roc, which is why I want to be a mounted archer. I'll be riding my flying Roc while shooting down on people. As an Oracle I'm stuck with wolf,pony,dog, or boar unless I took the feat Beast Rider....which I can't because I'm set in stone as playing a halfling.

[Jiggy]

I've never felt the need to use metamagic with divine favor, so I'm not seeing what's so great about using Magical Lineage with it. Unless you're thinking of eventually using Quicken Spell on it as a 4th-level spell instead of 5th? I suppose for an archer (who doesn't need to close with the enemy) that could let you start shooting faster. Bonus points if you also have Quick Draw.

[David Bowles]

Yes, that's what he uses it for: quicken spell. Pretty nice on an oracle.

[Jiggy]

So you're wanting a mostly-martial character who has an animal companion, uses a bow, and has a little bit of divine casting?

Sounds like you're trying to play a ranger without taking ranger levels.

[Kysune]

Is that even legal to reduce a level 1 spell to a cantrip that can be cast as many times as you want?

EDIT: Sorry, I read it wrong. I see now that it lowers Quick Metamagic by 1 if that's what you'd choose. Seems pretty useful as a trait. Maybe more useful for Extend Metamagic? Shouldn't that drop it down to a 0 level adjustment and then you have 2x the duration for Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment along with other nice spells that'd be effective for much longer?

[Kysune]

Yeah I guess I'd be picking Ranger, but I'd assume the buffs to +hit +dmg and +ac from spells would be more beneficial. I also have the ability to buff my Roc AC and cast spells to counter effects. I know the Ranger is more martial but I'd assume they'd not be as versatile.

[David Bowles]

Magical lineage only reduces it by one level when applying metamagic feats.

The wood oracle is a strong choice in this situation.

[Kysune]

Going to repeat once more...I'm not playing an Oracle....I'm looking to use mounted aerial archery. I would consider Ranger with a splash of something but I'm thinking my buff spells or versatility would suffer greatly. (especially since greater magic weapon, magic vestment, and some others only overlap a +1 magic item and not add in addition to a +1 item.)

Cleric lvl 4 Example: +1 bow, cast greater magic weapon lvl 4, still a +1 bow.
Cleric lvl 12 Example: +1 bow, cast greater magic weapon lvl 12, longbow is now a +3 bow.

[David Bowles]

What you really need is a cleric equivalent of the magus, which doesn't really exist. The cleric's lack of feats is going to be killer.

One of the issues is that divine favor is super good until caster level 6. I suppose you could magical knack and take two levels of fighter. But you still might have trouble fitting in deadly aim.

[Kysune]

Well I could dip 2 levels in fighter, in all honesty I'd never see that 3rd +1 bonus to atk/dmg from Greater Magic Weapon since my character would be retired.

I'd be up for a Ranger with a dip in Druid or Animal Domain Cleric probably since I could still get a flying mount. I'm not sure if there's any other dips I could take that would also but Ranger's AC selection is a bit limited.

Just depends on what you guys think if Ranger with a few levels dip in something would be better, a pure cleric, or a cleric with a few levels dip in fighter for some extra combat feats. Bring the suggestions, I'd love to hear them. I just want to keep a flying mount and have mounted arhcery (spells would be a nice bonus though) :)

[David Bowles]

What's so great about greater magic weapon? Just buy a fancy bow as you level. Also, magical knack trait will give you back two caster levels of effectiveness (NOT spells).

[Akerlof]

Archery can be done on a cleric, you just won't be as powerful as a martial archer. It will be very frustrating until level 3 when you can get precise shot (human would be better because of that.) If you do go with a cleric archer, I would suggest you consider yourself a support caster who can fill in dead time by shooting a bow rather than a primary damage dealer. As a halfling archer, you'll be doing less damage than a cleric with similar stats wielding a one handed weapon, at least for the majority of your career.

Halfling with a Roc companion is another cool thing, but again it's not helping your archery much. Yes, in some cases it will give you the maneuverability to get clear shots. But most of the time you will be a feat behind a human using a feat intensive fighting style, as well as 2 str and 1 average weapon damage behind a medium character.

If you want to pick up two levels of fighter, I would suggest doing it in the first two levels. That gives you Point Blank, Precise, and Rapid shot asap and those are the three core feats for an archer. You'll at least be an actual archer, but you'll still not be an optimized damage dealer. My guess is that you will be on par with the 3/4 BAB pregens, damage-wise.

[Erisana Liaomei]

You can choose from the full range of Druid animal companions if you take the Beast Master archetype, and you'd get it at the same time as you would as a cleric with the Animal domain.

[GreySector]

Personally I would go human, ignore Dexterity, pump Wisdom and Strength, and take Guided Hand (requires Channel Smite). Maybe take a level dip at 2nd level for Zen Archer Monk.

[Azothath]

I have a garuda aasimar cleric of erastil(feather, community) that uses a bow. It's not bad and has a tight theme.

If you're looking to optimize bow then be a Zen archer or Ranger with some cleric added in. A few well chosen items will have you casting the cleric spells you need as 1 level of cleric brings their spell list with it.

Being a cleric first and then an archer will mean that you are not as effective as the fighter types unless you are buffed. If you self buff a lot that draws from your available support spells. The party needs to know you are not a support character BEFORE you go on a mission.

Humans are always good if you need feats.

[Chris O'Reilly]

Have you considered an inquisitor? You only get one domain power but that could be animal. Judgments and the bane ability really help to up your hit and damage. They get slower casting progression but maintain full caster levels for things like magic vestment.
I always recommend for people to plan out their levels and see what it looks like. When people see how long it takes for their build to really come together they sometimes reconsider. Just archery itself is feat intensive enough for most classes without bonus feats, even human, to be unable to pursue any other options until maybe the end of your PFS career. Trying to also fit in boon companion, the mounted feats, and quicken spell is going to be a challenge. Fighting against the grain isnt easy!
I applaud you for sticking to your concept though.

[Curaigh]

Beastmaster Ranger trades the 6th level combat style feat for improved empathic link, which reduces its favorability. Otherwise this makes sense for a roc-riding halfling archer. I would consider Fighter/cleric. You might also consider Roughrider (fighter), and just level dip into the roc AC. Roughrider gives your mount bonuses, but they're not as nice as AComp progression (evasion) and you will lose the seventh level advancement (large). Assuming you want more 'mount' and less 'AComp' the trade is not bad. Splitting the levels works might also work, you will have to crunch numbers to decide.

[Mergy]

I think Chris has it. Inquisitor has a lot of things over cleric when it comes to being more fighty, and you still get quite a few spells to play with. Judgement and Bane are both amazing, especially if you have them up and running in the same fight.

[David Bowles]

The inquisitor also already gets longbow proficiency I think.

[Wraith235]

IMHO fighter is your best option ... Ranger is so below the grade its not even Funny

another thing you may consider is Zen Archer for 3 levels ... Wis to attack etc.

but I also agree with Chris - Inquisitor avoids Dips (unless your feat starved)- Can take Animal Domain for the Roc (though you dont get it till 4th level)- Grab Boon Companion to make it your level

take the Feather Subdomain for a racial bonus on perception + an init bonus if you can act in the suprise round

--- Edited for Clarity

[Kysune]

Well I think I came up with a good multiclass choice: Ranger6/Druid4/Fighter2.

I'd get the 2 bonus combat feats from Fighter, 2 bonus archer feats from Ranger (Imp Precise Shot I wouldn't normally be able to get), Druid spells and access to flying mount.

As a 6Ranger I'd have a 3rd lvl AC pet, 4Druid would bump my AC pet to 7th lvl, and taking Boon Companion would increase it to 11th lvl by the time I was lvl 12 myself.

My bab at lvl 12 would be.....(calculating).... +11/+6/+1. Which would only be 1 point behind a Fighter. I only need 14wis since my highest lvl spells are 2. I can now
add my bonus stats from 4,8, and 12 to Dex instead of Wis.

1) Fighter 1: Deadly Aim (lvl 1), Precise shot (fighter)
2) Fighter 2: Point-Blank shot (fighter)
3) Ranger 1: Mounted Combat (lvl 3)
4) Ranger 2: Rapid Shot (ranger)
5) Druid 1: Boon Companion (lvl 5), Animal Companion: Roc (druid)
6) Ranger 3:
7) Ranger 4: Many Shot (lvl 7)
8) Ranger 5:
9) Ranger 6: Mounted Archery (lvl 9), Improved Precise Shot (ranger)
10) Druid 2:
11) Druid 3: FREE FEAT: undecided (lvl 11)
12) Druid 4:

By not going Full Cleric: I'm losing spontaneous heal spells, positive channeling, higher lvl spell list and better buffs. But my BAB will now be only 1 point behind
a full Fighter and I'll have 10 feats instead of a Cleric's 6. I'm taking the dip in Druid to expand my AC list for a flying mount.

I do have the option of going Ranger9/Fighter1/Druid1 though. I'd gain evasion, 1 favored terrain, and access to a Ranger's lvl 2 spells. Only spell I see really useful
would be Wind Wall though. But going this route instead of Ranger6/Druid4/Fighter2 I'm losing wild shape 1/day, lvl 2 druid spells and ability to cast more druid spells,
multiple druid specials and Druid4 would give an additional +3 Will save compared to the Ranger9/Druid1 route. Between the two options my BAB doesn't change.

Things to keep in mind: I'm going Halfling..period. Not playing an Oracle, or Zen Archer. I'm considering the two above options I laid out. Inquisitor could work with Animal Domain but I'm losing out 3 more levels on my Roc pet, which makes it a 7th lvl Roc when I'm 12th lvl and that's not safe :/ (Assuming I'm dipping Inquis, instead of druid, since I'm feat starved for fitting both Archery and Mounted Archery into my build)

I'd love to hear suggestions on what Fighter Archetype I could use that would help the most. So far I'm just using base Fighter in the above build. I'm assuming it's legal and fine to Multiclass 3 levels, I'd just only have 1 favored class that I could choose +1hp, +1sp, or +halfling favored class bonus. I'm also not sure what Ranger and Druid Archetypes if any would be a good choice to help also.

Let me know what you think of my stats and which Multiclass path you think is better. I'll be going Halfling so keep that in mind.

EDIT: I also think 6th lvl Ranger is a good choice as there'd be no way I could get Imp Precise Shot during my PFS career before retiring.

2nd EDIT: Stats are Str12, Dex18, Con12, Int12, Wis14, Cha9

[Curaigh]

With the level 12 cap in PFS triple classing is tricky, but what you laid out looks fine (& fun). Personally the prestige classes that require two classes as prequisites are difficult to take advantage of before retirement. Hmmm... any PrCs that might be a good choice after level 6 or 7? If so they are in splat books...

[Kristen Gipson]

The animal companion levels do work like you think.

The ranger levels will not stack like you think they do. You have the 4 levels of Druid, the ranger levels do not stake since it doesn't add to your current AC level, it gives you another AC. So right now, your AC will only be level 8.

So if you want to try to keep the AC level up with your level, don't multiclass.

[Wraith235]

Kristen Gipson wrote:

The animal companion levels do work like you think.

The ranger levels will not stack like you think they do. You have the 4 levels of Druid, the ranger levels do not stake since it doesn't add to your current AC level, it gives you another AC. So right now, your AC will only be level 8.

So if you want to try to keep the AC level up with your level, don't multiclass.

SRD wrote:

The druid's class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion's statistics.

Ranger AC = Druid -3+ Druid level 4+ Boon Companion +4... hes done his Homework on this one

3+4+4 = 11

also note than any way to get additional animal companions have been Changed / Banned with the exception of Beastmaster (which I think may have slipped through the cracks

Pack Lord - Banned
Huntsmaster - only 1 Hound

so the multiple Animal Companions are strongly discouraged by the campaign staff

[Wraith235]

I had a long post that I lost so I'll try to recreate it

Ranger9/Fighter1/Druid1 is the Route Id go

A) More HP
B) more Skill points

Questions to ask yourself
A)do you really see yourself Wildshaping ? your 8 levels of Multi-classing so shaping focus isnt even worth it - Edit I just realized that with Shaping Focus you could hit Level 8 Wild Shape ability which includes Elemental Body II - which includes small Air elemental - a cheap way to get another +2 to your Dex and +2 natural armor
B) are you really going to miss level 2 Druid Spells?

Stats Look Good your going to wish you had more strength due to being small (Small Composite Longbow - d6 damage)if you had a way to boost that anymore Id do it

as for Archtypes

Fighter -

Fighter Archtypes Normally need 2-3 levels before you see some kind of change ... for the above Build depending on what armor your loking at Lore Warden might be an Option

Ranger
Falconer - there is / was a huge debate on if a Roc Qualified for Falconer or not
Infiltrator - Customization anyone ?
Woodland Skirmisher - Really Situational but could fit the Theme
Skirmisher - Lots of Shooty options in there
Trapper - are you playing with a regular Group or an Open table format ? if its a regular Group and they need someone to fill the trap finder role this is something to consider

[Kristen Gipson]

Wraith235 wrote:

Kristen Gipson wrote:

The animal companion levels do work like you think.

The ranger levels will not stack like you think they do. You have the 4 levels of Druid, the ranger levels do not stake since it doesn't add to your current AC level, it gives you another AC. So right now, your AC will only be level 8.

So if you want to try to keep the AC level up with your level, don't multiclass.

SRD wrote:

The druid's class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion's statistics.

Ranger AC = Druid -3+ Druid level 4+ Boon Companion +4... hes done his Homework on this one

3+4+4 = 11

Never mind. I looked at the ranger AC ability and not the Druid. It does not list that in the ranger ability.

[Chris O'Reilly]

In PFS levels for animal companions only stack if the animal companion in question is available on both lists. Mike Brock ruled as such in this thread (which may not be perfect in clarity but amounts to the above. At the absolute best expect table variation, unless theres been a more recent ruling overturning that)
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p73y?Cavaliers-and-Exotic-Mounts#43

For Rangers, they may lose one bonus combat feat to be able to take a Roc but that is still one feat up on a cleric. The trait a cleric would use to gain handle animal as a class skill a ranger can take to up their caster level by 2 leaving them one behind.

Another animal companion option is the Mad Dog barbarian which receives a full HD level animal companion with no restriction. It doesnt help the feat dependency but if you stick to it and druid you dont have to take boon companion or you can take levels of fighter for feats and take boon companion and eschew the casting.

[Wraith235]

I personally am not a fan of the mad dog ... especially on a halfling ... and even more so on a ranged character

[Sir Thugsalot]

Kysune wrote:

I've been pondering building an archer cleric and I'm finally deciding to make him for my local pfs group.

That "PFS" part is important, as it'll limit what you can make to what's in the books you own (unless your group is lackadaisical about enforcing that).

Quote:

I understand Cleric is not the best option for archer but I'd like to "fight against the grain" anyways.

Clerics are great archers -- because they often have little to do in combat other than get themselves into melee trouble (tip: don't do that).

Quote:

I'm planning on playing a Halfling Cleric of Erastil (free longbow proficiency) and I've came up with the below stats to play as an archer.

<sucking teeth> ....halflings are an unsung race, but difficult as archers due to the automatic -2 damage on every arrow they fire versus a normal-sized character.

Stats I'd use:

Array 15,14,12,12,12,12 into:

STR-10
DEX+17
CON:12
INT:12
WIS:14
CHA+14

--or--

Array 15,14,14,14,12,07 into:

STR-05 (this build uses a crossbow)
DEX+17
CON:12
INT:14
WIS:14
CHA+16

01 pala1 [divine hunter][Precise Shot], Weapon Finesse

...note: you don't have to be Erastil with this set-up, since a paladin dip grants all weapon proficiencies. She is, however, the only LG deity with the Animal domain.

02 cler1 [Erastil:Animal(Feather)/Plant]
03 cler2 Selective Channeling

...because professional adventuring clerics don't heal the monsters.

04 cler3 2nd, DEX>18
05 cler4 Boon Companion
06 cler5 3rd
07 pala2 [Divine Grace][Lay on Hands], EWP:Repeating Crossbow
08 cler6 ...etc

Mount: leopard.

The goal here is to be a real healer who's an asset to the party, not a "dabbler" who marches in and gets his head ripped off. The cat takes care of melee for you; the crossbow gives you plinking ability in between casting and healing. Your job is to make all encounters relative cakewalks by ensuring that everybody stays alive at all times.

[Kysune]

I'm not opposed to the Repeating Crossbow idea, not sure how different it would be compared to a Long Bow though as I'm sure some of the ranged feats won't work for x-bow.

I'd assume that a flying mount would be infinitely better for any caster though as I have to worry less about being grappled or having someone threatening me / locking me down to where I can't cast or must make Concentration checks to cast effectively.

My issue with a Cleric focused build is the lack of feats though. There's just too little feats to go around to really make shooting appealing.

[Sir Thugsalot]

The RXB was for the strength-dumper build.

Quote:

There's just too little feats to go around to really make shooting appealing.

The easy solution is not to take any.

It's not like a full-class caster can't find something else to do if the target is in melee behind soft-cover for relative -8 penalty.

[Kenji Elindir]

I really think Inquisitor is the best option here. All it takes is one feat, boon companion, to get your Roc (from the Feather subdomain) up to par, it has full caster level for your buffs, and plenty of BAB/abilities to make sure you hit.