When to stop pumping Disable Device?


Advice


I'm playing a Gulch Gunner in our party's Wrath of the Righteous campaign and I'm the only character with a halfway decent disable device skill (get it as a class skill with the archetype). I don't mind being party skill monkey, but I'd like to free up some skill points for other things, so I'm wondering just how high my disable device even has to be, or if I have to put a point into it every level for it to even keep up.

Right now I'm sitting on +10 at level 3 (+12 really, since masterwork thieves tools), which should beat any non-magical trap we run across with a take ten...I think. Magical traps will be a pain, although fortunately I do have a workable UMD and the GM okay'd us buying those one scrolls that give trapfinding at half the character's level for the duration of the spell. I also plan on picking up the Goggles of Minute Seeing or whatever those one goggles are that give you +5 Disable Device.


You can take 20 on picking locks, but not disabling traps, so trap DC will typically be the limiting factor. The DC for a magical trap is 25+spell level, and that's generally going to be the highest DC you'll encounter.

9th level spell gives a DC of 34, so a Disable Device of 29 is as high as you need (min of 1 means a fail by 4 or less, which you can retry) unless there are circumstance modifiers being applied, such as lighting penalties, or challenging circumstances (eg. in a sandstorm). If you can take 10 on the test, you only need a Disable Device of 24 (after all modifiers)


That's true about taking 20, except for the occasional instance when you're wanting to get through a locked door in a hurry - say when there are a bunch of rust monsters chasing you or the room is filling with water from a trap that your boneheaded fighter tripped (speaking from experience there). I wouldn't waste your skill points for these rare instances though. I've also seen a DC 40 lock come up once in a while but that is a rarity. I agree with Graeme if the assumption is that you are okay with missing a DD check on occasion.


Invest in a wand of knock to suppress arcane locks.

I have only ever had to disable a lock in a hurry once, which failed and led us into a hard but fun combat.


Ok so would you say it is also important to rank it up each level? When can I even expect to start finding those dc 34 magic traps, like level 10? 15? 17?

Scarab Sages

Trap disable DCs vary wildly even for traps of the same CR. For example, at CR 11, there is a DC 20 trap and a DC 30 trap. DC 34 and 35 traps start showing up around CR 13-15, though lower DCs are more common.


FanaticRat wrote:
Ok so would you say it is also important to rank it up each level? When can I even expect to start finding those dc 34 magic traps, like level 10? 15? 17?

A 9th level spell in a trap is a CR 10 or so encounter if I recall correctly (it's been a LONG time), so you could see it even earlier depending on the circumstances.

Basically you want to achieve a +24 modifier (so your take 10 can hit DC 34 for 9th level spell traps).. you can get a +2 and +5 bonus from items (masterwork tools & goggles, et al), so you are looking at +17 counting class skill bonus and trapfinding bonus.

But that brings us to the real problem that you have.. you don't have trapfinding per say. You have the disable device skill, but that is not enough to disable a magical trap.

If this is important to you, then you could consider a 1 level dip into:

1. Ranger (trapper archetype)
2. Sorcerer (seeker)
3. Oracle (seeker)
4. bard (sandman)
5. alchemist (crypt breaker)
6. one or two PrCs that I don't want to look up (mea culpa)
7. Rogue

A 2 level or 3 level dip is a bit much for it, but does give you a few more options.

-James


Really it depends on how often traps come up in your games. If you have someone that can cast summon monster 1 to walk through trapped areas and set them off then you probably don't really need to disable it, also investing in the adventurer's trope of the 10ft pole. Like wise, a locked door is only a problem if you want to remain stealthy and quite. Otherwise a locked door is merely one full attack from being splinters on the ground, especially if your melee combtant picks up an adamantine weapon for sundering those doors.

In my group the answer to the question of "How many ranks should I put in disable device?" would be 0. We almost never have traps, and by the time we do breaking a lock or dispelling the magic or summon/setting it off remotely seems generally the best way to handle the occasional ones we do.


james maissen wrote:
FanaticRat wrote:
Ok so would you say it is also important to rank it up each level? When can I even expect to start finding those dc 34 magic traps, like level 10? 15? 17?

A 9th level spell in a trap is a CR 10 or so encounter if I recall correctly (it's been a LONG time), so you could see it even earlier depending on the circumstances.

Basically you want to achieve a +24 modifier (so your take 10 can hit DC 34 for 9th level spell traps).. you can get a +2 and +5 bonus from items (masterwork tools & goggles, et al), so you are looking at +17 counting class skill bonus and trapfinding bonus.

But that brings us to the real problem that you have.. you don't have trapfinding per say. You have the disable device skill, but that is not enough to disable a magical trap.

If this is important to you, then you could consider a 1 level dip into:

1. Ranger (trapper archetype)
2. Sorcerer (seeker)
3. Oracle (seeker)
4. bard (sandman)
5. alchemist (crypt breaker)
6. one or two PrCs that I don't want to look up (mea culpa)
7. Rogue

A 2 level or 3 level dip is a bit much for it, but does give you a few more options.

-James

I already mentioned that the GM allowed me to buy the scrolls to let me get temporary trapfinding (Aram Zey's Focus, I believe?). I think that would be less costly than losing levels in gunslinger. Then again, the only reason I'm really pumping this is because I'm designated DD monkey. I'm wondering if I should just get some scrolls of mount or summon monster or something to bypass most traps.


The thing I found with traps is they are either anoying or horribly debilitating and there is not really a middle ground.

So when we dis rise of the runelord the only trap I failed to disarm did 50 negative energy and killed me. These types of traps are in my experience not stoppes by the easier magics. But I alao play with people who don't usually have knock memorized.

Btw for wrath if you are going trickster you can use disable for other stuff.


FanaticRat wrote:
I already mentioned that the GM allowed me to buy the scrolls to let me get temporary trapfinding (Aram Zey's Focus, I believe?). I think that would be less costly than losing levels in gunslinger. Then again, the only reason I'm really pumping this is because I'm designated DD monkey. I'm wondering if I should just get some scrolls of mount or summon monster or something to bypass most traps.

Ah sorry I missed that. I'm not familiar with Aram Zey's focus, et al.

As to setting off traps.. well that depends on how your DM thinks and runs things.

For me, traps are not wandering monsters. If you were an intelligent creature looking for a lair and you came upon a trap, then you would look to utilize it as a defense. And having a loud noise go off telling yourself that invaders are nearby would be the biggest benefit it could give you.

If your DM thinks along these lines, then setting off the traps is akin to loudly singing 'hello beasties, come and eat us'. Your encounters would be a lot tougher as creatures would always be prepared for you, or would even ambush you. That's the real value of trapfinding... staying stealthy.

Then again, some traps automatically reset. That means you're going to suffer through it, and if you are forced to retreat... well then you're going to suffer through it again.

All that said, being prepared with sheep/canaries is not a bad thing to have as an option.. it just has its potential downsides.

-James


Mojorat wrote:

The thing I found with traps is they are either anoying or horribly debilitating and there is not really a middle ground.

So when we dis rise of the runelord the only trap I failed to disarm did 50 negative energy and killed me. These types of traps are in my experience not stoppes by the easier magics. But I alao play with people who don't usually have knock memorized.

Btw for wrath if you are going trickster you can use disable for other stuff.

Actually am going trickster, but all the disable device-oriented path abilities suck--don't see the point of ranged disable when you can't take ten, nor the point in Astounding Disable since I wouldn't be trying to use DD in battle anyway. Trap Taker seems marginally useful, but since my UMD is a lot lower than my disable device and a lot harder to boost (even when taking the trait that gives it to me as class skill and the racial bonus, I stil only have 8 CHA) and the fact that you can't take 10 on UMD, it seems like I"m more likely to blow myself up with it.


Dispel magic is probably easier to get rid of magical traps than you using a scroll.

Dispel magic is a pretty useful spell anyway, so your casters should have it


It's worth mentioning, since some people have brought up the Knock spell, that unlike previous versions of the game, it is no longer automatically successful in opening locks. A typical wand or scroll of Knock is near-useless against truly advanced locks.

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