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aasimar oracle of nature 8
Aasimar
Add +1/2 to the oracle’s level for the purpose of determining the effects of one revelation.
picks bonded mount At 7.
thats a 12th level horse... ok. cool
now add feats
takes feat natures soul (from faiths of balance) at 1st, or 3rd ...
takes animal ally at 5th. gains service of animal companion, chosen from a small list, at level -3. pre reqs are no animal companion and natures soul. level 5 companion at 8....
feat says if you later get a companion, the levels stack...
level 8 oracle has a level 17 companion at 8th level?
I have a pdf of Faith's of Balance and searched through it, I could not find Nature's Soul, or Animal Ally. Would you provide links or references to these 2 feats?
Huh. I don't think it's intended, though I'm not sure why it was written that way if it weren't, either. Regardless, it is correct at this time.
If said Aasimar had the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait, you could then take the Huntmaster Feat for an additional +1 to this monstrosity of a horse.
Yup... looks like unintended consequences strikes again...
By the way, are you allowed to apply the assimar bonus to a revelation you don't yet have? Otherwise it knocks 3 levels off.
The wording on the favored class bonus is a bit ambiguous about that. It probably does only apply to revelations you have, though. Even then, you still have a level 14 or 15 horse at level 8. Granted, it's a level 14 or 15 horse that has to wait outside the dungeon/inn/ship where the scenario takes place, but at least you know it will be safe and surrounded by a growing pile of bodies!
And for those times you can actually use your mount? Yikes.
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Even without the Aasimar Bonus, Take a gnome, and take a dog. Level 13 Dog Companion at level 8. Nasty. And it can go anywhere the party can go. (give it the extra body slot(feet) feat, and give it slippers of spider climb, and you can have an improvised gecko. Or, since you probably don't care about it needing it's hands free, cloak of the arachnid, and you get a gecko that spits webs....)
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For extra evil:
Take the Oracle up to level 7.
Then take cavalier up to level 11 for Expert Trainer;
Level 11 feat, take Horse Master.
You now have:
(not counting aasimar bonus)
Animal Ally lvl 8
Oracle Mount lvl 7
Cavalier mount lvl 11
total level: 26...
Someone needs to check errata on that one. I'm not sure it is a legal use of horse master.
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For extra evil:
Take the Oracle up to level 7.
Then take cavalier up to level 11 for Expert Trainer;
Level 11 feat, take Horse Master.
You now have:
(not counting aasimar bonus)
Animal Ally lvl 8
Oracle Mount lvl 7
Cavalier mount lvl 11total level: 26...
Someone needs to check errata on that one.
Horse master screws that up actually (depending on how you view the wording
besides, you also need celestial servant for more epicness
Clicking faq, I imagine we'll be seeing this limited to the character level or just out right banned in PFS.
In regards to the favored class bonus, you wouldn't be able to choose a revelation you don't have access to so you would lose out on a few levels worth as mentioned before. One of the other rules thread on the first or second page has the relevent link.
As for the feat, my guess would be the intent was that the class you gain the companion with 'later' is different than the class you took the feat with originally.
Animal Ally gives a companion at your character level -3. You can't have an animal companion when you take the feat, but if you later gain the ability to have a companion, the levels stack. It is pretty oddly written I think.
Bit of math:
Be a figher. Get Animal Ally at lvl 5. Become a Cavalier. Gain 5 levels.
Now your effective druid level for Animal Ally should be:
7 (character level -3) + 5 (cavalier level)....
That feat deserves to be errata'ed.
An 8th level Aasimar Oracle would indeed have
5 (character level -3) + 8 (oracle level) + 4 (favored class bonus) = 17
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i found one mention of it here: link which makes no mention of it stacking if you later gain a class that gives you an animal companion.
Nature Soul
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (nature)
checks and Survival checks.Animal Ally
Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th,
Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were
a druid of your character level –3 from the following
list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse,
pony, snake (viper), or wolf.
so if we have an 8th level aasimar oracle :
5 ( character level -3 ) + 8 oracle level , +4 favored class bonus = 17.its really
0 ( character level -3 ) + 8 oracle level , +4 favored class bonus = 12
you would need to separate out the class levels animal ally would apply to, vs. the ones that normally grant an animal companion.
when you're adding ranger 6 and druid 4, you know what you're adding. (ranger 6 -3 plus druid 4 ) 3 and 4.
a fighter 5/rogue 3/druid 4 has a character level 12, so animal ally would give him a companion at EDL ( effective druid level ) 5 before he started taking druid levels. the druid levels have to be counted separately to stack, so adding 4 levels of druid leaves you with an EDL of 9 for your 12th level character's animal companion.
counting the druid or oracle levels, and recounting them for the feat, is incorrect.
First and foremost, I don't believe "having an animal companion" is considered to be an "effect." It's a class feature. If you have something that deals/heals 1dx damage per oracle level you possess, that qualifies, since that is an effect, from using an ability, that needs to be resolved on the spot, but having a pet is just having a pet. It's the same as how treating your level as 1 higher (or lower) for a spells particular school doesn't grant/deny access to spell slots, just the effects of the spells that you already have and meet the conditions.
As for the rest of this, nowhere in the description of any of these abilities does it say that effective druid levels from multiple sources stack, so the druid/ranger/sylvan-blooded sorcerer with the Animal Ally feat here doesn't add all those levels together to determine its stats. Either you only benefit from the highest effective druid level you have from all these sources, or (and I believe this interpretation was either backed up in an FAQ or some Paizo person weighing in a while back but I'm too lazy to go dig it up), each of these independent sources grants you a separate animal companion, and you just get to traipse around with a whole menagerie of low level critters.
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Animal Companion levels stack when the animal in question is on both lists. Look under the table , it states that under animal companion section the core book.
Class Level: This is the character's druid level. The druid's class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion's statistics.
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the aasimar oracle would need to choose a horse,
the fighter/rogue would need to choose an animal on both the Animal Ally list and the Druid list to get the benefit of the stacking.
In order to stack, they have to be counted separately from something. If they didn't stack, you'd just get the highest of the two, either your Character Level -3 , or your Druid level, or Oracle level, not both. Either case does not result in an EDL 17 mount for an oracle at 8th level. ( 12 is the best you'll do, and thats broken enough )
He would not need to chose a horse.
"being entitled to an animal companion" is not "being entitled to the same type of animal companion". As long as you are entitled to an object that falls under the category of animal companion, the levels stack.
Thus, a druid who multiclasses as a cavalier would stack their cavalier level with their druid levels to determine the effective level for their animal companion even if the particular companion is not available to cavaliers.
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PFS has an ruling handed down by Mike Brock. You can search for samurais riding tigers for specifics. I disagree with it, but its ruling is basically that if you're provided with two lists for animal companions/mounts, you have to choose off the intersection of the two lists.
so if you're a Ranger/Druid, you've got to choose off the ranger list.
if you're an Oracle/Druid, you've got to choose off of the oracle mount list.
I only pointed that out because the OP said this was for PFS. In standard play, I agree with the expanded choice options view. a Ranger/Druid would be able to choose from the most permissive list ( Druid ), and an Oracle/Druid would be able to choose from the Druid list.
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though for a while, before the ruling, it was okay link
it had about two good years before they decided "No".
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First and foremost, I don't believe "having an animal companion" is considered to be an "effect." It's a class feature. If you have something that deals/heals 1dx damage per oracle level you possess, that qualifies, since that is an effect, from using an ability, that needs to be resolved on the spot, but having a pet is just having a pet. It's the same as how treating your level as 1 higher (or lower) for a spells particular school doesn't grant/deny access to spell slots, just the effects of the spells that you already have and meet the conditions.
As for the rest of this, nowhere in the description of any of these abilities does it say that effective druid levels from multiple sources stack, so the druid/ranger/sylvan-blooded sorcerer with the Animal Ally feat here doesn't add all those levels together to determine its stats. Either you only benefit from the highest effective druid level you have from all these sources, or (and I believe this interpretation was either backed up in an FAQ or some Paizo person weighing in a while back but I'm too lazy to go dig it up), each of these independent sources grants you a separate animal companion, and you just get to traipse around with a whole menagerie of low level critters.
Bonded Mount (Su): You gain the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal mount. The creature must be one that you are capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium oracle can select a camel or a horse. A Small oracle can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if she is at least 4th level. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using your oracle level as your effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence score of at least 6.
animal ally call out if you later get levels in a class with an AC, the levels stack
also
The character's druid level. The druid's class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion's statistics.
and
l. If a character receives an animal companion from more than one source, her effective druid levels stack for the purposes of determining the statistics and abilities of the companion.
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animal ally call out if you later get levels in a class with an AC, the levels stack
in the quoted text i found of the feat on the boards, i didn't see a call out that it stacked.
this is why i hate debating suppliment's feats. i can't just link to it and see the wording of the feat right from the horse's mouth.|
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animal ally call out if you later get levels in a class with an AC, the levels stack
in the quoted text i found of the feat on the boards, i didn't see a call out that it stacked.
this is why i hate debating suppliment's feats. i can't just link to it and see the wording of the feat right from the horse's mouth.
also under animal companion it calls out stacking with other levels
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I think you're going to have to rephrase the question if you want it FAQ'd. The devs don't tend to respond to complicated examples. So something like:
I'd say no, because of ridiculous scenarios like the OP outlined; it would have to be a separate companion from what you gain from your class levels (and of course, PFS allows only one combat pet per player).
You know it doesn't say anywhere that you can get an effective druid level above your character level. Tho for the single class oracle this would make the ability kind of useless.
You know it doesn't say anywhere that you can get an effective druid level above your character level. Tho for the single class oracle this would make the ability kind of useless.
It doesn't say anywhere that you cannot and the math gives results where effective druid level > character level, so it seems pretty obvious that it's possible.
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This is actually a rather simple problem.
From the feat:
Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th, must not have an animal companion or mount that advances as an animal companion.From the core book:
A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.
As soon as the character in question takes a Bonded Mount (or really, anything that grants an animal companion) then they have effectively lost the prerequisite of 'must not have an animal companion'. It's no different then a feat which requires you to be Lawful and you losing access because you became Neutral or Chaotic.
The feat was never meant to interact with any ability that gave an animal companion, which is why it has such a prerequisite.
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If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter’s bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources.
from the feat
it exactly is meant to interact with any ability that gave an animal companion
If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter’s bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources.
from the feat
it exactly is meant to interact with any ability that gave an animal companion
*Raise thread*
The problem is, the feat was trying to let someone who later took levels in druid or what have you keep up and not start over. They weren't planning on someone getting an animal companion at level 7 that retroactively counted all 7 levels. Since it doesn't say to not count those new levels as part of animal ally's character level though, it does a very poor job of accomplishing that task and in light of the oracle ability really just messes stuff up.