I want to play a riding dog ,as per the book, and take fighter levels at second level. Do you think this concept is over powered, insane, or impossible? I was going to go with collars of natural armor, and take trip and bite feats. How can I convince the DM I'm not crazy.
Make sure to include the awaken spell in character creation, that way you have a decent enough Int score that you can understand spoken language and access most feats (that is, those that are not "monster" feats).
You're going to have 4 racial hit dice if you use an awakened riding dog, which means your CR is going to be too high to play in a 1st-level party. Maybe if the other characters began as 2nd- or 3rd-level characters, you could convince your DM to allow it.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Your barking mate
Tail attachments could work for a quadruped.
-I don't want to be awoken...I want to play lassie...Or snowie. A dog who forms a strong bond with a party member, so for example I have to whine when I smell bad guys, or who has to pull a characters clothing to get their attention.
-I'm looking for a challenge, which is why I specific do not want to be awoken...I simply want to be a dog. A very bright, INT 2 dog.
Hmm, alright then. As an animal, with less than 3 Intelligence, I don't think that you take levels in character classes. You'd advance in racial (animal) HD. That said, you wouldn't be very powerful. Your biggest disadvantage, even more so than your lack of class levels and typical feats, would be your inability to understand spoken language. Coupled with your inability to comprehend most things, you'd have to sit out most of the campaign (everything minus combat, really).
-I would only play the concept if the DM agrees my dog can take fighter levels...or maybe barbarian. I would have no ability to use hands...no armor...It's a serious sub-optimal character, but as an animal it would have certain advantages.
-Is there an actual rule that says you need an INT score to take levels? Spell casters, yes, but what about fighters?
I don't think it's explicitly written. I suppose it's up to each individual table to decide how they want to adjudicate the rules.
The only mention, to my knowledge, of animals taking class levels is listed in the description of the awaken spell (and only after their Int is raised to 3+ and they've become "magical beasts").
There isn't an explicit rule saying "you can't take levels", but Awaken pretty much says "now that the animal is no longer an animal and has 3+ int, it can take levels" (paraphrased) which implies that it couldn't before.
Likewise, when it comes to feats, the animal companion class feature says that animal companions with 3+ intelligence can take any feat they can conceivably use, while if their int is 1 or 2 they're limited to this list:
Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus.
There is at least one example of an animal getting character levels per the rules, specifically the giant vulture cohort through the leadership feat. There might be others.
As such, nothing forbids it per the rules.
However, I see two drawbacks.
1) As a GM or co-player, I would be fond of the roleplaying consequences of a character that is unintelligent and cannot communicate. Your character is going to be almost invisible, like an animal companion, at best, or at worst a standing joke that undermines the immersion in the game.
2) Mechanically the character is difficult to match the other characters. As a fighter you are going to be weak, since you'll never get more than 1 attack. As a ranger or barbarian, you can get claws, which might make you quite strong at low levels.
Animal-as-PC doesn't tend to work very well in conventional settings. I've DM'd or played in three games that had an animal-as-PC character. One of them was a one-off in GURPS that worked ok, but the concept was getting pretty tired even by the end of that one session. The other was in 3.5 DnD (so equivalent to PF) and it was terrible because the player couldn't really interact in any non-combat encounters and wasn't very useful IN combat encounters. She ended up wasting a lot of time just going 'doggy things' and holding up the party. She re-rolled a more 'normal' character after the second session. The third was in SPECIAL (fallout) which has specific rules for dog characters and assumes they are intelligent enough to understand speech. It worked OK in this setting but he was very one-trick-pony (bite and trip).
In short, don't play an animal character. Most RPG systems are not set up to accommodate and you will feel useless. Furthermore, often your animal will require special attention (to 'figure out' what it is trying to say, or to get it past a trap etc) which slows down the pace of the game and makes you look like you are attention seeking and/or furry.
You can still play your character using standard rules by just rolling up a Druid who prefers to hang around in wildshape. With a druids vestments and level 6-7 you never have to leave that shape during a working day. I am DMing kingmaker currently and there is a PC who does this (chills out in dire badger form). He fits in perfectly.
The biggest problem is the fact that you can't speak or understand speech beyond a few words so you can take no active part in in character talks or even out of character you have to be careful not overplay your intelligence it will be hard work and at times quite boring
Plus the first time you need to climb a rope or ladder your stuffed
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Like in my experience, it sounded cool.
In practice, it sucks for everyone, except maybe the "furry"(or fuzzy, if you prefer) PC, and even that wains eventually.
Now, if it was an awakened(intelligent) creature, capable of speech, then things change.
I am not telling you not to, but to be cautious.
You could be an awakened dog, that just happens to still act like a dog, and maybe chooses not to speak.
Besides, who doesn't like talking dogs?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
my honest advice, in three easy steps-
1. read this
2. have a good laugh about it
3. come up with a more practical idea that you're just as excited about (and will enjoy for much longer)
What about seeing if you can convince one of the other players to be a druid and you play his companion dog? Basically from level 1-5 you play as the animal companion itself, at 5th level the druid awakens and then releases/replaces you and you advance as a character. Or you could just continue the whole game as their animal companion.
I think it CAN work, but it needs to be something that EVERYONE in the party is fine with. Preferably, your character should have a close relationship with one of the humanoid characters in the party - be someone's pet/friend or similar. And treat communication between you and that character as no issue at all, as if you spoke the same language even if you don't.
Maybe you could say your character is just like any other character, but some sort of polymorph witchery turned him into a dog, and play from there? You could keep all of your usual mental skills (int, wis, cha) so you can still interact with the other PCs on higher level than other dogs, but you wouldn't be able to speak common. Maybe Sylvan? It'd be a good idea to have at least one of the Humanoid PCs be able to understand what your character is trying to say; maybe through a wish spell or something.
You could basically play like a permanently polymorphed druid, except with the stats/abilities of a fighter or barbarian.
Makes me think of "The 10th Kingdom;" a book/movie in which the prince gets turned into a dog in the beginning, and becomes an important member of the party of protagonists who eventually save the kingdoms. The story's hardly comparable to a PF adventure, but it's a start.
|
|
Did everyone seriously refuse to play with the guy after that?I was in a game with a guy who decided to play a cat.
That sounded fun, but it ended horribly.
Everyone swore a blood-oath to never play with the guy again, and to be ever wary of "furry" PCs.
Yes.
Under the circumstances, this was the nicest thing we could come up with.
We did what we could before it got to this point, but to no avail.
The campaign itself was lost, and even my DM could not fix it.
This terrible person, combined with this terrible idea, was the perfect storm.
I think I'll run the Dog as an NPC in a game, and yes, I see how it would get really old, really fast.
It's an idea like Communism.
It sounds good in theory, but in practice, doesn't really work.
Hey, try not to bring RL politics into threads ;)
Either it derails them or BS like that gets to stand undisputed ;)There's politic threads for that debate instead, I think there's another goblin that could give you a run for your money about it...
I have tried it. Being without thumbs is crippling but can be done. Being without speech is worse. Being without both? Forget it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I want to play a riding dog ,as per the book, and take fighter levels at second level. Do you think this concept is over powered, insane, or impossible? I was going to go with collars of natural armor, and take trip and bite feats. How can I convince the DM I'm not crazy.
If you just want to wear a collar and be ridden, why don't you just play a halfling?
If you just want to wear a collar and be ridden, why don't you just play a halfling?
I was going to say why not become a Pathfinder for Cheliax and work for the Paracountess
there are plenty of 'animal pc classes' like ratfolk and kitsune to pick from. surely there is a dog-man in there somewhere. if you really, really want to play an actual dog, expect trouble ahead.
Nonsentient animals can not take character classes, you're stuck with the Bestiary entry.
I have to correct this part. Nothing in the rules suggest that they can't get PC classes.
Actually the rules for advancing monster through adding class levels suggests the combat role as most appropriate to animals amongst others.This doesn't change that playing a dog is problematic at best.
|
It works even worse in PFS, i've had multiple tables with a player who was playing a druid and was way to attached to his animal comapnion (it was a horse, even though he kept referring to it as a pony. You see where I am going with this). Not only did he slow down the game severely with his antics where the judge at the table had to decide an on the spot ruling for something that was not really supported by the rules, but he took the RP of the character to a disturbing level which bothered most of the people at the table when he did it.
You could play an awakened dog or perhaps an awakened wolf that simply pretends to be a regular dog. So everyone seems to think you are just a very smart dog but in fact you are Awakened.
...there's a 3pp for that....Here you be. It one an ENnie, so it's probably high quality :)