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I know that using clone as a "get out of death free card" is a popular idea, but can you actually do that by RAW? It seems to me that it is impossible to make a useful clone in advance.
Here is the clone spell:
Clone
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 8
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S, M (laboratory supplies worth 1,000 gp), F (special laboratory equipment costing 500 gp)
Range 0 ft.
Effect one clone
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance noThis spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return). The original's physical remains, should they still exist, become inert and cannot thereafter be restored to life. If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.
To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature's living body. The piece of flesh need not be fresh, but it must be kept from rotting. Once the spell is cast, the duplicate must be grown in a laboratory for 2d4 months.
When the clone is completed, the original's soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead. The clone is physically identical to the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original. In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including its gaining of two permanent negative levels, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can't be cloned). If the original creature gained permanent negative levels since the flesh sample was taken, the clone gains these negative levels as well.
The spell duplicates only the original's body and mind, not its equipment. A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh which rots if not preserved.
I bolded the relevant bits.
Going over them one at a time...
"If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone". "Has", not "Is". As in past tense. You have to already have been slain for the spell to work.
"When the clone is completed, the original's soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead". This part couldn't be any clearer. If you are already dead, you enter the clone. If you are not dead, you do not.
"A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh". So if you are NOT dead then you create a clone, but it is a "soulless bit of inert flesh". It also goes on to say that it rots (just like every other type of dead flesh I would guess) and that you can preserve it, but no where does it say if you die at any future point you will transfer to the clone, preserved or not.
By a strict reading of RAW, I guess, yes. You're right.
But reading the spell it seems clear that is not the intention.
Temporal Stasis
Put an indefinite hold on clone completion a the last moment. Make arrangements to have the spell released upon death.
Yes, you could do that. Or you could just grow the clone and cast Gentle Repose on it then have someone cast the Clone spell after you die. It has a 10 minute casting time. But either way you will need someone you trust to know that you died and then activate the clone. Just casting the spell in advance doesn't seem to work.
Edit: Actually, now that I read the spell a little closer, I don't think temporal stasis would help. You don't need to suspend the clone, you need to suspend the casting of the spell. Plus that would be a second 8th level spell and another 5,000gp.
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If the wizard is high enough level to be dealing in clones, he's high enough level to have an extra-dimensional bolt hole and a couple of reliable servants. Even if he has to make them.
The sole purpose for which I use Contingency is as an exit strategy. Incapacitated or dead, get me out.
If the wizard shows up dead, fails to show for an extended time period, or the servants are otherwise notified of the wizards death, one of several clones can be removed from stasis.
I'm not even talking a major expenditure of wealth. A simulacrum of a level one commoner is absolutely loyal and capable of intelligent thought. Alternates could range from golems to a minor, but well compensated, entity summoned via planer binding to an improved familiar or homunculus that does not adventure.
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Edit: Actually, now that I read the spell a little closer, I don't think temporal stasis would help. You don't need to suspend the clone, you need to suspend the casting of the spell. Plus that would be a second 8th level spell and another 5,000gp.
That is exactly why I suggested Temporal Stasis over Gentle Repose.
It takes 2d4 months for the clone to grow after the spell is cast. You stop that growth a day before completion.
But just removing a clone from stasis isn't enough. Someone has to cast the Clone spell on the clone. So while the level one commoner knows that you have died, he can't actually revive you.
I guess if you put Clone on a scroll and had a servant with a good chance to succeed at casting it you would be okay. But it is not the automatic event that most people make it out to be. It is simpler to have someone cast Raise Dead or Resurrection on your corpse. It might save you from having someone cast True Resurrection if your body is lost, but that's about it.
Ah. I was reading that backward. You cast the spell, then grow the clone. Not the other way around.
You were right. I was wrong. ;-)
Still, it looks like it is a lot more complicated than at first glance.
You get your hideaway (500gp), cut a chunk off yourself, cast Clone (1,000gp), grow the clone almost to completion, cast Temporal Stasis (5,000gp), get a trusted servant to watch over things, arrange for some clear signal that you are dead (a false activation is going to cost you a lot and make you vulnerable again), then wait while your servant pulls you out of the deep freeze and the clone finishes growing.
You need Restoration for Clone also. But like I said, it is a huge savings over True Resurrection (25,000gp).
Still, it is no more a "get out of death card" than any of the other raise spells. You still need someone to bring you back, you can't do it yourself.
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No, not really "better" than other options. Just specific to wizards.
The somebody else part I already addressed. A created being with absolute loyalty to the wizard. It can serve many other functions beside just babysitting a clone.
The wizards real "Get out of jail free" card is Astral Projection. Don't put yourself in a position to die and never worry about loosing gear.
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I'm not really seeing why there is any confusion at all.
You cast the spell and make a clone.
Now ask yourself the following: Are you dead?
Yes > Your soul goes into the clone once it's finished maturing.
No > Nothing happens until you die, then see "Yes."
There is no text in clone that indicates that your soul enters the clone if you die after the clone has matured. Therefore, if the clone is completed while you are still alive, you've wasted the spell.
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You're overthinking this.
"If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone". "Has", not "Is". As in past tense. You have to already have been slain for the spell to work.
Sure, "has been" is past tense, but there is no specific time that this question is asked, nor is it limited to being asked only once.
The way I see this, think of it like an endless loop. The magic asks "Has the original been slain?" No. Then the magic asks the same question again. And again, and again, like a magical computer program running a Try-Catch loop.
If the question is ever answered "yes" then it immediately transfers the soul to the clone. The loop ends if the Clone rots.
I agree with DM_Blake.
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So constantly check if clone healthy then constantly check if caster is alive. If casteralive = 0 then activate funciton soulclonetransfer.
You're overthinking this.
"If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone". "Has", not "Is". As in past tense. You have to already have been slain for the spell to work.Sure, "has been" is past tense, but there is no specific time that this question is asked, nor is it limited to being asked only once.
The way I see this, think of it like an endless loop. The magic asks "Has the original been slain?" No. Then the magic asks the same question again. And again, and again, like a magical computer program running a Try-Catch loop.
If the question is ever answered "yes" then it immediately transfers the soul to the clone. The loop ends if the Clone rots.
I dunno. If I read a hypothetical instantaneous spell that stated "if the target has taken damage, he regains 1d8 hit points", I'd suspect that the conditional was only checked when the spell took effect.
When the clone is completed, the original's soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead.
As I read it -
In logic terms: IF (clone is completed AND creature is dead) THEN (creature's soul enters clone)
At any point in time that both conditions are true (clone is completed, and creature is dead) the creature's soul transfers to the clone. "When the clone is completed" is true from the moment in time that the clone is fist completed (2d4 months after casting) and remains true forever, assuming the clone is preserved. So, by the RAW, yes Clone will act as a "get out of death free card."
As I understand it, the reason Clone is considered an instantaneous spell (like all Resurrection type spells) is to keep Dispel Magic from killing you after you have been brought back to life.
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I say we all really know what the intent of the spell is screw RAW.. Plus dm blake's interpretation is valid.
What is the point of the spell having the ability to be made in advance if it doesn't do anything?
This spell is 8th level. What in the world is it good for if not being used as a preemptive raise dead?
Any wizard capable of casting Clone can also cast Limited Wish (which is only 7th level) and use that to cast Raise Dead. He can do this TWO LEVELS EARLIER and it doesn't require 2-8 months of wasted time growing a duplicate. The limited wish does require an extra 500gp, but that's pretty trivial for a 15th level character.
Sure, IF the body is too mangled for Raise Dead, then his Limited Wish won't work, so maybe then he needs Clone, or he can just Greater Teleport to any major city and pay some cleric to cast Resurrect. That is a bit more expensive, but not much and still trivial, and again, it doesn't require 2-8 months of wasted time.
Given the choices available to 15th level mages, I can see virtually NO BENEFIT to Clone at all, unless it can be used as a preemptive resurrection (let's not forget, the same wizard can use a Contingency spell and a friendly cleric to have a ready-cast Contingent-Resurrection as needed too, also without wasting 2-8 months).
So, RAW or not, there really are only a few tiny corner cases where Clone has any benefit at all, unless the RAI is for that last line of the spell to make it possible to grow a clone, preserve it indefinitely, and have it be your backup body if you die at a later time - even that is a bit wonky because you lose all your gear. Maybe, if there's a TPK, waking up naked at home is better than being devoured by a monster and NEVER coming back, but the rest of the time, I would prefer my friends drag me AND MY GEAR out of the dungeon and get me resurrected - which would be impossible if I had a clone instantly wake up on my death and make my actual corpse become inert.
Basically, I agree that you can preserve the completed clone, but so far as I can tell, since the soul didn't enter it, it is an inert lump of soulless flesh. Nothing says that the soul will later enter that inert lump, and "inert" specifically implies that it's not reactive -- it has no effects or properties.
Correct. That seems to be RAW. So, for an 8th level spell and 2-8 months of your time, you managed to get a banquet for a couple dozen cannibals (assuming you got your cubic inch of flesh from the living target without killing him). Nothing more. Worthless.
For an 8th level spell and all that wasted time, you should get something better than what a different 7th level spell could do instantly.
So I submit that the last bit of the spell description that talks about preserving the clone implies an RAI that the spell can be used as a preemptive resurrection. If not, then this should be, at most, a 7th level spell that uses a 10,000gp diamond and grows the clone in 1 minute.
It seems to me the way this spell has been used in official Pathfinder products should matter. And there's at least one clear case I know of where a major NPC has a clone all finished and ready to go in case she should suddenly die:
I miss the way clone worked back in the 2nd ed. days...
Clone
(Necromancy)
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 1 turn
Area of Effect: 1 clone
Saving Throw: None
This spell creates a duplicate of a human, demihuman, or humanoid creature. This clone is in most respects the duplicate of the individual, complete to the level of experience, memories, etc. However, the duplicate really is the person, so if the original and a duplicate exist at the same time, each knows of the other's existence; the original person and the clone will each desire to do away with the other, for such an alter-ego is unbearable to both. If one cannot destroy the other, one will go insane and destroy itself (90% likely to be the clone), or possibly both will become mad and destroy themselves (2% chance). These events nearly always occur within one week of the dual existence.
Note that the clone is the person as he existed at the time at which the flesh was taken for the spell component, and all subsequent knowledge, experience, etc., is totally unknown to the clone. The clone is a physical duplicate, and possessions of the original are another matter entirely. A clone takes 2d4 months to grow, and only after that time is dual existence established. Furthermore, the clone has one less Constitution point than the body it was cloned from; the cloning fails if the clone would have a Constitution of 0. The material component of the spell is a small piece of the flesh from the person to be duplicated.
The DM may, in addition, add other stipulations to the success of a cloning effort, requiring that some trace of life must remain in the flesh sample, that some means of storing and preserving the sample must be devised and maintained, etc.
...made a whole lot more sense to me!
This spell makes a duplicate. It takes 2d4 months for duplicate to grow. Once 2d4 months finish, check _ Has original been slain? Yes? Clone activates. No? Clone rots.
Has anyone discovered anything more on this? I have a wizard who is using it, but I fear the GM telling me it will not avail him.
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Lets pull up the text.
Oh this line hasn't changed.
If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return).
So when the individual has been slain it transfers to the clone. No time limit for it. So the spell asks this question until it gets a yes.
when it gets it's yes you enter the clone and continue being a pimp wizard.