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Once again I ask because of several disagreements at my gaming group, with people I respect so I'd rather get it right and pass it on.
Are ALL Free RPG day scenarios PFS legal for multiple runs. That's what I've heard from one person.
Example: Can a PC play "We Be Goblins, Too," multiple times to apply to different PCs obviously. Or any of the other Free RPG Day scenarios for that matter?
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Obviously you have read parts of the the Guide to Organized play Eric, but I might suggest you read it completely and more thoroughly. I am not trying to be mean but almost every one on the threads you make is covered pretty plainly in the Guide to organized play. It also seems that many of the threads you make in here ask a question and when someone answers them you usually ask the same question again. Many people can find this type of behavior as either annoying at the least or might view it as trolling in general.
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Level 1 adventures can be replayed. Period.
This includes level 1 scenarios (First Steps 1-3) and level 1 modules (We Be Goblins, Master of the Fallen Fortress, Godsmouth Herecy, Murder's Mark, etc).
Any adventure intended for characters above level 1 cannot be replayed. This includes playing level 1 PCs through a 1-5 or 1-7 scenario, or playing a level 1 character in a level 2 module. This part sometimes confuses people.
Semi-exception: Level 1 modules are only intended for level 1 characters, so they can be replayed. However, modules can also be played with a PC who is one level outside the range, so you can play a level 1 module with a level 2 character. But only once. You can replay that module with as many level 1 characters as you would like, but you cannot replay it with a level 2 character.
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I should explain myself. Often times you read my questions and you probably assume that they are my questions. More than often than not, they actually aren’t. I’m the only one who posts here because, well, these boards can be a hostile environment, so a lot of folks just straight out avoid them.
So I ask on behalf of other people. I ask because I’ve got GMs who have been doing things ‘their way’ for so long, that the only way to correct the ‘wives’ tales’ they’ve been passing around among themselves is to get an outsider’s point of view, or a VC’s or VL’s ruling and then all debates can cease.
I personally said, “I don’t think you can run a scenario or a module, beyond lvl. 1, more than once.” But I hear otherwise and people who have been doing it for 3-4 years, where I’ve been doing PFS for 8-9 months. So, I don’t want to play an illegal PC, who did “We Be Goblins, Too” more than once, if I ever go to a Con, next year but I don’t want to offend a GM by telling him “I can’t play this more than once because I won’t get credit for it,” if that GM is telling me that I can. And I don’t want to tell him he's 'wrong,' even privately, unless I’m a 100% sure and I’ve covered all my bases.
So, I ask dumb questions just to make sure I’m not going to be wrong, if I tell them otherwise, when I say, that I read the rules differently. So, while it may look that I reside in Trollheim, I really do mean these questions sincerely.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So let me get this straight:
Your local GMs don't read the Guide themselves, and furthermore are offended if you point out where the Guide contradicts them, unless you first get the Guide vouched for by Someone On The Internet? Then suddenly it's all okay?
And they dislike People On The Internet enough that they won't set foot here themselves, but they trust those same People On The Internet enough to accept being told by said People that they're wrong, even on topics where the same answer coming from a local player or from the Guide would be considered offensive?
That's... kinda weird.
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So let me get this straight:
Your local GMs don't read the Guide themselves, and furthermore are offended if you point out where the Guide contradicts them, unless you first get the Guide vouched for by Someone On The Internet? Then suddenly it's all okay?
And they dislike People On The Internet enough that they won't set foot here themselves, but they trust those same People On The Internet enough to accept being told by said People that they're wrong, even on topics where the same answer coming from a local player or from the Guide would be considered offensive?
That's... kinda weird.
The People On The Internet scare me. They are evil.
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Eric, I think you failed to understand my point and you just further reinforced it. The questions you are asking either yourself or on behalf of other people are plainly spelled out in the Guide to Organized Play. GO READ IT! I am not the first person to point this behavior out to you. I find it terribly hard to believe that everyone in that group is that confused. On top of that there are 7 Venture Officers in your local area that you could ask, or that most likely there is at least 1 organizing at the locations you play at. These forums can be heated at times but they are hardly hostile and when things get bad there is a paizo staff member that usually steps in and gets it back in line.
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The People On The Internet scare me. They are evil.So let me get this straight:
Your local GMs don't read the Guide themselves, and furthermore are offended if you point out where the Guide contradicts them, unless you first get the Guide vouched for by Someone On The Internet? Then suddenly it's all okay?
And they dislike People On The Internet enough that they won't set foot here themselves, but they trust those same People On The Internet enough to accept being told by said People that they're wrong, even on topics where the same answer coming from a local player or from the Guide would be considered offensive?
That's... kinda weird.
The People on the Internet should be the name of a new horror movie.
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I may not have explained it well enough Jiggy.
Different people, some are players and some are GMs.
But if I tell the GMs that they are incorrect and that I read it on Paizo's website, I won't get any arguments.
You'd be amazed at the hurt feelings that occurred when I had to explain how 50 non-lethal and 50 lethal dmg, doesn't kill an NPC with 80 hp. I had to point to it, in a book and my GM recently, pointed out that now he has to keep two numbers in two buckets when we're throwing around non-lethal dmg because of my rule lawyering.
When its just, I read it but I can't point it out to you right now, then I might be told my opinion is wrong. This way, I know where to find it and show them and I quite frankly, there are enough rules to print a bible for PFS.
Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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... quite frankly, there are enough rules to print a bible for PFS.
The Guide to Organized Play is 45 pages. 2 pages are front matter and the cover. 2 pages are a character sheet. 1 page is OGL. 3 pages are contact info for VOs. 3 of the pages deal with defining organized play and finding a game. 2 deal with worldbuilding. 7 deal with factions and their traits, so they are not mandatory reading. One page deals mostly with the GM star system and where you purchase scenarios from. On the remaining pages, there are 4 1/4th page illustrations. On other pages, there are at least 2 pages of artwork remaining (the three character images and the diagram of the chronicle sheet). Two pages deal with modules - if you are not current in a module, they do not apply. 3 of the 4 pages of character creation deal with matters addressed in the core rulebook. Therefore, there are 17 pages of rules that govern Pathfinder Society.
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Eric, I think you failed to understand my point and you just further reinforced it. The questions you are asking either yourself or on behalf of other people are plainly spelled out in the Guide to Organized Play. GO READ IT! I am not the first person to point this behavior out to you...
You and your attitude are the reason for why this forum is considered ‘hostile’ by so many people. You are a guy who memorized hundreds of pages of rules and you think to lord it over people who don’t have the time to do so because they have other things that require their attention, outside of PFS.
You don’t want to answer a PFS question? Please do us all a favor and don't.
But don’t berate people for asking or feel like someone spit in your soup, when other people are polite enough to answer them, without making the person asking the question feel like an idiot.
But if your attitude is that no question should be asked that has already been answered in one of the 40+ books printed by Paizo, then by your own set of rules, this Forum is pointless. Because every question that has been asked on this Forum is a question on PFS rules, that can be answered in those books or in the 40+ page guide, that we all MUST MEMORIZE according to your rules. So please, from now on, don’t read my threads or anyone else’s for that matter, if you don’t like answering PFS rules questions. That way I and others, will only have to deal with people who are willing to answer and enjoy explaining things.
Sniggevert answered a question, it was a done deal and I didn't need more, I was about to thank him and move on with my day.
And you came to Troll me, that's how the rest of this whole thread is perceived on my end and by many other people, who just decided to give up on this Forum, and not ask the next question, that might offend you, oh Lord of the PFS Forum.
... quite frankly, there are enough rules to print a bible for PFS.The Guide to Organized Play is 45 pages. 2 pages are front matter and the cover. 2 pages are a character sheet. 1 page is OGL. 3 pages are contact info for VOs. 3 of the pages deal with defining organized play and finding a game. 2 deal with worldbuilding. 7 deal with factions and their traits, so they are not mandatory reading. One page deals mostly with the GM star system and where you purchase scenarios from. On the remaining pages, there are 4 1/4th page illustrations. On other pages, there are at least 2 pages of artwork remaining (the three character images and the diagram of the chronicle sheet). Two pages deal with modules - if you are not current in a module, they do not apply. 3 of the 4 pages of character creation deal with matters addressed in the core rulebook. Therefore, there are 17 pages of rules that govern Pathfinder Society.
I can't tell if you're joking or not, but there are no shortage of official rulings that exist nowhere other than on this internet forum.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Eric, there's a difference between asking a question whose answer is in an obscure messageboard clarification or in Splat Book #311 or which doesn't have a clear answer at all; versus asking a question whose answer is explicitly laid out approximately two inches below where you stopped reading.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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When its just, I read it but I can't point it out to you right now, then I might be told my opinion is wrong. This way, I know where to find it and show them and I quite frankly, there are enough rules to print a bible for PFS.
That "bible" is called the Guide To Pathfinder Society Organized Play. Not only should you download and read it, you can print it out and bring it with you to the game. Then you could immediately point out where your read the rule!
Frankly, the GtPSOG is part of the core assumption. Everyone at the table should have a copy of it with them.
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Eric, there's a difference between asking a question whose answer is in an obscure messageboard clarification or in Splat Book #311 or which doesn't have a clear answer at all; versus asking a question whose answer is explicitly laid out approximately two inches below where you stopped reading.
...except he had no way of knowing that -- he didn't read it.
But really, does it matter? What is the upside of berating people for asking questions? Better to just answer the question or ignore it.
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You and your attitude are the reason for why this forum is considered ‘hostile’ by so many people. You are a guy who memorized hundreds of pages of rules and you think to lord it over people who don’t have the time to do so because they have other things that require their attention, outside of PFS.
You don’t want to answer a PFS question? Please do us all a favor and don't.
But don’t berate people for asking or feel like someone spit in your soup, when other people are polite enough to answer them, without making the person asking the question feel like an idiot.
But if your attitude is that no question should be asked that has already been answered in one of the 40+ books printed by Paizo, then by your own set of rules, this Forum is pointless. Because every question that has been asked on this Forum is a question on PFS rules, that can be answered in those books or in the 40+ page guide, that we all MUST MEMORIZE according to your rules. So please, from now on, don’t read my threads or anyone else’s for that matter, if you don’t like answering PFS rules questions. That way I and others, will only have to deal with people who are willing to answer and enjoy explaining things.
Sniggevert answered a question, it was a done deal and I didn't need more, I was about to thank him and move on with my day.
And you came to Troll me, that's how the rest of this whole thread is perceived on my end and by many other people, who just decided to give up on this Forum, and not ask the next question, that might offend you, oh Lord of the PFS Forum.
Wow man. I think you need to take a step back and relax for a while. there is not reason for such hostility. There was no attitude from me. I tried suggesting something and you completely ignored what I had posted. I read quite a bit on the forums and I have seen a pattern from you. A pattern that suggests you have never really read the GtoP, and one that suggests you do not actually read everyone's responses fully. As Jiggy pointed out you are not asking some obscure rules question, you are asking basic things that are covered in the GtOP. Most of the questions you ask are covered in that and the Core Rule Book. If you thought I was berating you I am sorry you felt that way, but that was not the intention. I never said you must memorize everything and I really dislike that you are making me out to be something I am not and stating behavioral patterns that I didn't display here or anywhere else.I know that most people do not have a problem remembering basic rules of a game they enjoy playing and I don't think it is really that big of a deal to remember stuff like that. I didn't come to troll you, I enjoy teaching people things, but your posts are not asking to be taught, you are asking to be spoon fed basic rules.
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@bugleyman: Where did I berate anyone? Show me the post, and I'll edit it (if possible, otherwise I'll flag it myself).
As for the "why", I guess I'm just a believer in teaching people to fish.
@Jiggy: You didn't. But imo shouting at people to to go read the guide to organized play is hardly necessary (or likely to be productive).
And I'm all for teaching people, just don't see the point of snark. More flies with honey and all that...
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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@bugleyman: Where did I berate anyone? Show me the post, and I'll edit it (if possible, otherwise I'll flag it myself).
As for the "why", I guess I'm just a believer in teaching people to fish.
@Jiggy: You didn't. But imo shouting at people to to go read the guide to organized play is hardly necessary (or likely to be productive).
And I'm all for teaching people, just don't see the point of snark. More flies with honey and all that...
Okay, then point me to the shouting/snark and I'll go edit/flag that. I agree with what you're getting at, so if you can point me to where I fell short, please do.
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Okay, then point me to the shouting/snark and I'll go edit/flag that. I agree with what you're getting at, so if you can point me to where I fell short, please do.
Again, it wasn't you. I replied to your post because you implied that someone who may have looked and not found an answer would somehow know where it was (and therefore whether he should post about it) right here:
...asking a question whose answer is explicitly laid out approximately two inches below where you stopped reading...
...which really doesn't follow.
Can't we all just get along? ;-)
Edit: For the record, the shouting is right here.
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You can only replay Tier 1-2 Modules(with a level 1 character) and tier 1 scenarios. You can't replay We be Goblins Too.
The way I find the answers to many of the rules questions I have is to open the document on my PC and use ctrl-F to find the relevant entry. Just type the keyword that you are looking for clarification on, such as 'replay'.
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Edit: For the record, the shouting is right here.
That shouting was from Chris. He's a ginger. He can't help but be an evil soul-sucking monster. Don't blame him for something he has no power over. :)
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That shouting was from Chris. He's a ginger. He can't help but be an evil soul-sucking monster. Don't blame him for something he has no power over. :)
You, sir, should have a look at this (NSFW).
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Hey now Chad. Gingers are not evil we are CN, and we are not monsters we are people.
No soul = Not a person.
Chris, I didnt know your little brother had a movie coming out this year.
;)
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Most of the questions you ask are covered in that and the Core Rule Book.
Ok this is for everyon not just for you, PFS is my hobby. It is not my life. This isn't a slam on any of you but rather the amount of dedication I am willing to put forward towards this game.
When I read the response of, "go read and memorize 450 pages worth of material," I get snippy. Seriously, I get really ticked off as do most people, who treat PFS as a 'hobby.'
450 pages of reading and being able come up with an answer at a moment's notice is not an answer. And someone suggesting that I go searching those books to remember where I read any particular answer to any question, I don't remember the answer to, sends me into a red haze.
You'll remember some answers, I'll remember others and we can all help eachother by filling in our knowledge gaps. Brushing off someone else's question as a personal 'fail,' is not productive.
I own my books and don't have PDFs, so doing a search function essentially means rereading everything. And that's not happening. Again, not because I don't care but because there's too much.
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As a heads up, if you do need to search the Core Rulebook electronically without owning it as a PDF, you can use Paizo's Pathfinder Reference Document and look through there for any specific rules. Also, the search box on Paizo's site can also be set to look through the PRD, or the messageboards, if you need assistance to find a specific ruling.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Eric,
No one is telling you to memorize any number of pages. Just be read them and be aware of what topics are covered in the guide and/or core rulebook.
If you don't have time to read the entire core rulebook, at least familiarize yourself with the table of contents and indexes so you can find things more easily.
Then when a question does come up, you can do what we do, refer to the book and find the answer you are looking for in a timely manner.
Instead you repeatedly post questions you could find the answer to yourself in just a few minutes.
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True, there is the index, but I also work. I'm at work now. Then at the end of the day, I will get into my car and drive 60 miles to the store where I play and then spend 4.5 hours playing and then another 60 miles to get home. 6.5 hours total.
I do this once or twice a week. I am also the guy who sends a mass email to everyone that comes to our store to play PFS, letting them know what scenarios will be offered that week. I have an excel spread sheet that tells me what people have played, which I update, so that the right scenarios can be picked so that everyone can have a good time and we're not getting stale. 2 more hours dedicated to the administration of PFS in my area.
I'm pretty sure, I do plenty to make things easier on everyone else, including our GMs.
So, when I ask a simple question, before I start driving in 2 hours, I pray for a simple answer and not for anyone to rake me over the coals because I don't have another 8.5 hours to dedicate to memorizing a rule book, especially when I'll have to spend another 4 hours preparing a scenario for next week.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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EDIT: Ninja'd a lot.
Eric, no one's suggesting that you need to memorize 450 pages. In fact, some folks have even specifically said they DON'T expect you to memorize all that.
What you're being asked to do is to read the most likely place. For instance, you already knew what section of the Guide to check for the replay question; all people are asking is that you finish reading that section before asking. You're being asked to read two more paragraphs, not another 449 pages.
When people say "It's in the Guide/CRB", they're not suggesting you should memorize those documents. They're suggesting that when you have a question about X, you should find a chapter and heading that sound relevant and read like, 3-4 paragraphs, tops. Heck, the CRB even has an index in the back so you don't even have to look over chapter titles and section headings.
To put it in perspective, what you're being asked to read is in fact less text than what you've *written* on this topic.
Again, it's not like there's this 450-page pile of unsorted information that you have to either memorize or just read from beginning to end until you hit the information you wanted. We're talking about an organized compilation of information that is laid out specifically to let people find information without having to read through everything to get to it.
Pretending that the people who are asking you to take two minutes to find the right paragraph and read it, are instead asking you to either memorize or wade through 450 pages of text, is dishonest at best.
What's being asked of you is less effort than you've already put in. Stop pretending that it's anything else.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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rake me over the coals because I don't have another 8.5 hours to dedicate to memorizing a rule book,
There you go again.
Us: "Spend two minutes looking up your answer."
You: "Stop telling me to spend 8.5 hours memorizing 450 pages of rules!"
That's what needs to stop.
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I was answering Chris' statement, please read below, before you make an accustation of me being disingenuous.Eric,
No one here is telling you, or even expecting you to "go read and memorize 450 pages worth of material".
The questions you keep asking are almost always something covered in Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The Guide is 45 pages, and as Netopalis pointed out, it really only has about 17 pages worth of rules. To respond to "please read this 45 page document to find your answers" as if we told you to "read and memorize 450 pages worth of rules" is more than a little disingenuous.....
Most of the questions you ask are covered in that and the Core Rule Book.
Netopalis wants me to know those 17 pages, others expect me to know the Core RB and those 17 pages.
And people wonder why more people won't ask questions on this forum?
Today I'll go back to the store and if a new player comes in to play I'll quote Chris. And when they ask me if they should find another hobby, I'll just nod. That sound like a plan to everyone, who's taking a turn at me?
I'll just tell ALL new players, that they shouldn't even get on this 'Forum' to ask a question until they've read the CRB and the Rules to Organized Play. Is that the suggestion I should take away from this whole discussion?
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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We do not expect you to memorize books. We expect you to have the capability and initiative to check those books for facts that may be related to the problem you have at hand.
No one here is telling you to memorize books. Everyone here is telling you to use them as reference material.
And as for reading the Rules to Organized Play? It's kind of what it exists for. It's the rules we all play by. We are all expected to read them.
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We do not expect you to memorize books. We expect you to have the capability and initiative to check those books for facts that may be related to the problem you have at hand.
No one here is telling you to memorize books. Everyone here is telling you to use them as reference material.
And as for reading the Rules to Organized Play? It's kind of what it exists for. It's the rules we all play by. We are all expected to read them.
Tell me where in those rules you can find out that an Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity can use Human only Feats and Traits, in all books other than the Advanced Race Guide?
Can't find it? Yeah, me neither.
Do you know why? Because there is a rule addendum, to every rule.
And when a GM at my game tells me that he is using a rule that allows people to play "We Be Goblins, Too" multiple times, I don't tell him he's wrong because I know that for every rule, there is a counter rule.
That's what I've learned in the last 6 months on this forum. Just because something is written in one place, doesn't mean there isn't a counter rule, somewhere else.
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I have an excel spread sheet that tells me what people have played, which I update, so that the right scenarios can be picked so that everyone can have a good time and we're not getting stale.
FYI - from experience - that'll work for about 6 months...
Seriously, find a better use for your time, you'll be glad you did.
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Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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Eric: Most of these questions are answered through simple use of the Additional Resources Page. While it's true that the additional resources page is one of the most underused and misunderstood parts of PFS, it's really fairly simple. Just look for the resource that the feat, ability, etc, you want to use is in. If it's a source not on the page, it's not legal. If it's a source that's on there, it should be pretty easy to tell if it's legal or not.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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I have an excel spread sheet that tells me what people have played, which I update, so that the right scenarios can be picked so that everyone can have a good time and we're not getting stale.FYI - from experience - that'll work for about 6 months...
Seriously, find a better use for your time, you'll be glad you did.
Over here, we've actually had a functional system for recording characters and played scenarios using a wiki and Google Docs. It's been up since Season 0. It does, however, require players and GMs to use their own initiative to record things in order to keep them accurate.
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Eric, the complaint being made is that you have shown no incentive to look things up yourself, it is not that you're incapable of memorizing an entire set of rulebooks (I don't think anybody except Kyle Baird and maybe Jiggy can claim to have done that). You're happy to ask somebody else to spend their time looking up a rule, but you're not willing to spend any effort yourself in doing so. Believe it or not, that may be considered rude.
What most of us want to do is live by the mantra of "teach a person to fish". I (and others) don't want to answer every previously answered question ad nauseum. We'd rather that you take a minute or two to do a search and find out the answer to yourself. Believe it or not, it may actually save you time.
Out of curiosity I went and tried to answer your question and timed myself to see how long it took (because I didn't know the answer either).
Tell me where in those rules you can find out that an Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity can use Human only Feats and Traits, in all books other than the Advanced Race Guide?
I couldn't remember which book Scion of Humanity was in (I assume if I were curious, I'd probably know, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're using Hero Labs or something). Total time to navigate to d20pfsrd, do a search on 'Scion of humanity', find 'scion of humanity' on the page, and navigate to figure out which book it's from - 22.5 seconds.
I then opened up a new browser window, navigated to the additional resources, searched for 'Advanced Race Guide' and looked through the list (realizing at this point it's sorted by race) and saw the statement that all traits and feats are legal for Aasamir. Time spent doing that? 33.04 seconds.
Again, you likely know this information since you had the book open looking up a resource in the first place, but since I already have the browser window for d20pfsrd open, and I personally don't recall where "World Traveler" is from I did a search looked up the trait, and saw it was from the APG. Time spent, 18.63 seconds.
I went back to paizo.com (already open), looked up "Advanced Race Guide" and "Scion of Humanity" with the find function on the additional resource page. Discovered that the following traits are NOT legal section. Trait is not on the list, I know I'm good to go. Time spent - 13.52 seconds.
Total time spent with the extra time required for me to look up sources = 87.69 seconds, or less than one and a half minutes.
Total time spent specifically reviewing the additional resources = 46.56 seconds, or less than one minute.
I've spent a lot longer than even the more rigorous just writing up this e-mail to respond about whether it's legal or not. I also spent my 1.5 minutes (rather than having you spend yours). That's what I believe is driving people off. You ask basic questions that you don't need to know the rules inside and out to answer, you just need a little search savvy.
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Eric, with all due respect,
I agree that some things are difficult to find answers for. Your scion of humanity interaction is a fair example, because I can see how someone without strong system mastery could get the word meaning messed with it's interaction with the Aasimar race/selecting race restricted stuff.
That aside, this is the best suggestion I have you: if instead of all the time you currently spend typing complaints back at those who type in your posts you used that time to just familiarize (key word here is familiarize, not learn backwards and fowards) yourself with the PFS guide and the general language of the game itself, I believe you would have far less questions.
I understand being busy. I hope you will understand why your time might be put to more constructive use reading just a little bit than it currently is in arguing with folks (some of whom argue back) and continuing to defend positions you've stated dozens of times already.
Food for thought.