I've been wracking my brain for a while now to try and figure out what any difference between Greater Teleport and Interplanetary Teleport. It seems to me that both of them let you travel without limit and with only having a good idea of where you want to turn up. Interplanetary mentions that you can teleport to a specific point on a planet if you have it in mind, but Greater says that you have no miss chance from where you intend to go. The only difference I can think of is that with Interplanetary Teleport, you can choose to go to a particular world without having your destination be immediately life-threatening. But really, how different is the two spells in practice?
It's fluff, but Distant Worlds says many of tried using greater teleport for space travel and failed because of things like the caster being unable to compensate for the speed of the planet or not being able to comprehend the distance required.
Edit: Distant Worlds also alludes to the idea that magic is like the interwebs and requires an magical connection to said world for the teleport to be successful. If said world is "offline" then Inplanetary teleport, wish and miracle are somehow able to bypass it.
Greater requires you to have a specific spot in mind and a reliable description of that spot. Interplanetary doesn't- it just needs you to know which planet you're going to, and it takes you somewhere habitable if you don't have a specific place in mind. Also, in games where other planets are accessible, it's commonly houseruled that greater can't travel between planets, either.
Greater teleport specifically states interplanar travel is not possible, so doesn't even need a houserule.
Interplanetary =/= Interplanar
Greater teleport specifically states interplanar travel is not possible, so doesn't even need a houserule.
I personally would treat the other planets exactly as if they were other planes, and avoid an entire series of weird exceptions and issues, but supposedly in Pathfinder they're on the same plane but just further away.
Greater teleport specifically states interplanar travel is not possible, so doesn't even need a houserule.
interplanar: Between planes.
interplanetary: between or among planets; "interplanetary travel".
Planets as in Saturn and Neptune. Or Aballon and Aucturn in Pathfinder.
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So here's the thing. In pretty much all D&D type settings, there wasn't really a well-supported planetary element. Teleport has a built in range limitation, but greater teleport was classically set up as "unlimited" but WITHOUT the idea that there are other planets in the universe, really, to teleport to. Sure, there were other planets, but that wasn't really a strong element of game play in the majority of D&D adventures, and it certainly wasn't an expectation in the core rules for D&D.
That's changed in Golarion, but it's a bit confusing since the implication is that you can teleport as far as you want with greater teleport.
The way it works in Golarion, and the way I hope some day we'll clear up how it works in the core (since they adopted interplanetary teleport into core, it's already implied), is that greater teleport allows unlimited teleportation on a planetary scale, but not beyond that. You need interplanetary teleport to go to other planets and galaxies.
The logic is clear, but it still seems a bit squirrely that you can visit the gods in Heaven with a 7th level spell, but need a 9th level one to stay in your own solar system.
If the other planets all universally had instantly-lethal environmental conditions (super-gravity, poisonous or no atmosphere, sulfuric acid rain, insane heat or near-absolute zero cold), and if interplanetary teleport had an adaptation effect built-in that stayed in effect all over the planet, then it would make perfect sense.
Heaven's closer. And you don't need the spells per se. All planets in the solar system except Aucturn have portals to every other planet on them.
Heaven's closer.
How exactly is another plane closer than something on the same plane?
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If you think about the planes as overlapping, it makes sense that they'd be closer than other planets.
Think of Golarion as the ground floor of a house. The attic is heaven, and the basement is hell. If you want to go to Akiton, that's the house down the street.
And couldn't use just plane shift to Heaven, and then back to a different planet?Heaven's closer.How exactly is another plane closer than something on the same plane?
Hmm. It's not entirely clear, but no, doesn't seem that way. From what I can tell, when you cast plane shift, you are transported to a point on the selected plane 5d100 miles from the point that corresponds to where you started off from.
So, unless two planets were somehow only 1,000 miles apart, it doesn't seem like you could plane shift across planets.
Edit: Plus, if you let plane shift travel vertically between planets, you're giving your GM free rein to have it teleport you 5 miles in the air , into hard vacuum, or the like.
Curious, would this mean that a caster that took the proper precautions couldn't teleport into space?
Hah, that's what I get for skimming through the spell and not taking the time to really read what I'm seeing.
With greater teleport, I'd say he can teleport into space to a distance equal to the diameter of his planet, since that's the furthest he could travel with greater teleport.
With interplanetary teleport, I'd let him teleport to any point in space that would be habitable with his precautions, planet or no. That seems to be RAI, if not RAW, from the "must be habitable" bit. I suspect the reason they didn't say it could teleport anywhere in space was the lack of satisfactory rules for hard vacuum.
I think it would be fine to allow Greater Teleport to get you to the moon and back.
Well, there is Planetary Adaptation. So that should get past the immediate danger caveat.
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The moon is covered in the corpses of wizards who were too curious and not cautious enough.
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Curious, would this mean that a caster that took the proper precautions couldn't teleport into space?
In fact... you can't teleport into an area that can't support you. Technically, that means NO one can teleport into something that has no ground to stand on. I suppose if you have a fly speed, you could teleport into the air, and there's no gravity in space so there's nothing to support you in the first place... but as designed, teleport assumes you're arriving on the ground. Same goes for summoning creatures, actually.
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I think it would be fine to allow Greater Teleport to get you to the moon and back.
Actually... we've already established in world that that doesn't really work—see the Moonscar for details.
In fact... you can't teleport into an area that can't support you. Technically, that means NO one can teleport into something that has no ground to stand on. I suppose if you have a fly speed, you could teleport into the air, and there's no gravity in space so there's nothing to support you in the first place... but as designed, teleport assumes you're arriving on the ground. Same goes for summoning creatures, actually.
Well, that's a kick in the pants. I was hoping I could have some fluff of my high level Void-Touched sorcerer to occasionally sleep in a nebula or some such. Guess I may need to invest in Interpanetary Teleport to get that aspect of the Starborn ability roleplayed.
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In fact... you can't teleport into an area that can't support you. Technically, that means NO one can teleport into something that has no ground to stand on. I suppose if you have a fly speed, you could teleport into the air, and there's no gravity in space so there's nothing to support you in the first place... but as designed, teleport assumes you're arriving on the ground. Same goes for summoning creatures, actually.Well, that's a kick in the pants. I was hoping I could have some fluff of my high level Void-Touched sorcerer to occasionally sleep in a nebula or some such. Guess I may need to invest in Interpanetary Teleport to get that aspect of the Starborn ability roleplayed.
That, or convince your GM that it's a cool idea and let him make the ruling for you. ;-P
That, or convince your GM that it's a cool idea and let him make the ruling for you. ;-P
Granted, there is always that. :P
I think its fine with greater teleport allowing space travel. I see interplanetary teleport as a more inter-staler teleportation option. You could say: Take me to the first planet around the star I have designated D-4JS2.
With greater teleport, you are limited to planets that you could visually resolve :)
I don't think that We can even make out the surface of mars without our orbiter. Not well enough for teleport I feel.
I would have preferred interplanetary teleport to be 8th level so it could be simulated through a wish (though that would get expensive).
It all depends on how easy you want interplanetary travel to be in your game. Considering that many of the planets in Distant Worlds would be suitable adventure sites for parties of low to medium level it is kind of a shame that these areas are inaccessible until your party is at ultra-high level.
On the other hand, the Golarion setting was written without much reference to other worlds. Aside from the weirdness in Numeria there hasn't really been much in the way of visitors from other worlds, and culturally these visitors have not made an impact at all. The setting would need to be rewritten somewhat if people were coming from and going to other worlds on any kind of regular basis. However, I would certainly get more out of the setting if that were so.
I would have been inclined to allow greater teleport to work but with a much greater chance of error. Just as greater teleport reduces error from teleport, interplanetary teleport could reduce the error from greater teleport.
As far as the Moonscar goes, teleporting into the wrong spot is not something that you want to happen when going there.
Here's some other ideas if you want there to be more interplanetary travel in your games:
1. Shantaks can take you but they are Chaotic Evil and are more likely to abandon you mid-flight. That would be really bad. There ought to be another creature that can do the same thing - such creatures would probably be Lawful Neutral and would be willing to take passengers - for a fee. They might be smaller than Shantaks, who prey on them.
2. A magician with greater teleport could perhaps make a device that when destroyed causes a teleport effect with a destination of the planet on which it was made. Thus these amulets allow one-way travel between worlds; they would probably be sent back and forth and traded between powerful magicians, and a lower level party could get to another world if they bought or found one, or were perhaps given one by a mysterious patron. Then a part of their adventure would include finding such a device that could bring them back home, or learning the secret of its construction.
Peet
So here's the thing. In pretty much all D&D type settings, there wasn't really a well-supported planetary element. Teleport has a built in range limitation, but greater teleport was classically set up as "unlimited" but WITHOUT the idea that there are other planets in the universe, really, to teleport to. Sure, there were other planets, but that wasn't really a strong element of game play in the majority of D&D adventures, and it certainly wasn't an expectation in the core rules for D&D.
That's changed in Golarion, but it's a bit confusing since the implication is that you can teleport as far as you want with greater teleport.
The way it works in Golarion, and the way I hope some day we'll clear up how it works in the core (since they adopted interplanetary teleport into core, it's already implied), is that greater teleport allows unlimited teleportation on a planetary scale, but not beyond that. You need interplanetary teleport to go to other planets and galaxies.
It may be implied, but I do not like it when new options take away uses from old options. Greater Teleport says unlimited and that's how our group will handle it until someone buys a CRB with errata that says otherwise.
1. Shantaks can take you but they are Chaotic Evil and are more likely to abandon you mid-flight. That would be really bad. There ought to be another creature that can do the same thing - such creatures would probably be Lawful Neutral and would be willing to take passengers - for a fee. They might be smaller than Shantaks, who prey on them.
Try the Oma. It has full starflight and you can ride indefinitely in its second stomach, and it's N. Convince it not to bite you, and you just have to take 6d6 acid and a DC 20 Reflex save, both trivial at levels where interplanetary flight is feasible.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/oma
It's from Paizo, too. Distant Worlds.
Try the Oma...
Yeah, I remember this one, and you`d only need one to carry a typical party, but with an INT of 2 its not something you can simply negotiate with, and at CR16 it isn`t showing up in your game until you can almost cast interplanetary teleport anyway. I`d like to see something coming by a little earlier, like CR7, that is intelligent and can carry one party member each.
Edit: The big deal with the Oma is that it can cross interstellar distances. There`s no such thing as interstellar teleport.
It may be implied, but I do not like it when new options take away uses from old options.
Agreed. It sets a TERRIBLE precedent.
My logic (and ruling) on this has always been the same as Ipslore the Red's.
Greater teleport requires a specific destination in mind. You can't just teleport to "Castrovel". You have to teleport to "the middle of the High Church of Calistria in the city of El in Sovyrian" - and more then that, you have to have been there before. If you want to get to a planet you don't know any specifics about and have never visited, greater teleport is useless to you.
Interplanetary teleport, on the other hand, lets you teleport to a planet you know nothing about except the name. If you find a book that makes an off-hand mention of a planet called Barsoom, one casting of interplanetary teleport later you are there - and automatically in a hospitable location, for bonus points.
To my mind that's enough of an improvement over greater teleport to justify the higher level, while not weirdly retroactive-nerfing greater teleport.
I wouldn't call any of those descriptions "reliable," but I admit that's subjective.
