How to touch 6 friends.

[Brogue The Rogue]

This came up recently in our game, and the text is a little unclear. I'm wondering if anyone could shed some light on this.

Quote:

Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Quote:

You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action.

Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

My reading of this text is that, to touch your six friends, you would need to cast the spell as a standard action, then touch them all next round as a full round action. I'm not even sure you could move while doing this. One of my players linked some other text that I can't now seem to find that leaned it a little differently, though.

Can anyone shed some light on how, exactly, this situation should work?

[DM_Blake]

I always understood that to mean they all need to be within touch range during your round. I also took that to mean that you would cast the spell in a previous round, hold the charge, and then make your 6 touches on adjacent friends as a full-round action this round.

[Brogue The Rogue]

Yes, we'd played it that way previously, but now I'm not so sure.

Situation A) Cast the standard action spell as a full round action, touching up to six friends within range.

Situation B) Cast the SA spell as a SA, then, next round, use a FRA to move around and touch people.

Situation C) Cast the SA spell as a SA, then, next round, touch up to 6 people as a FRA with no moving.

Which of these seem right to all of you? Or did I miss some?

[MrRetsej]

Applying a touch spell to up to 6 friends only works for touch spells that allow for it though, right? A spell like Water Breathing would allow for it because the target is "Creatures Touched," plural, but Cure Light Wounds wouldn't because the target is "Creature Touched," singular.

Sadly there are very few touch spells that allow for more than a singular target per touch.

[Hawktitan]

There are quite a few communal spells that allow it.

[Brogue The Rogue]

Communal is the game, yes. Specifically Resist Energy, Communal.

[Mortalis]

I understood it as situation C personally, but I wouldn't make a ruckus if others treated it as B or A.

[Jeraa]

Brogue The Rogue wrote:

Yes, we'd played it that way previously, but now I'm not so sure.

Situation A) Cast the standard action spell as a full round action, touching up to six friends within range.

Situation B) Cast the SA spell as a SA, then, next round, use a FRA to move around and touch people.

Situation C) Cast the SA spell as a SA, then, next round, touch up to 6 people as a FRA with no moving.

Which of these seem right to all of you? Or did I miss some?

Its noty A. You can't just change the casting time like that.

Its not B. The rules say you can touch up to 6 people as a full round action - it doesn't say you can move during that action.

So the correct answer is C. Note you can move after you cast the spell in the first round (assuming you still had a move action left). You should also be able to take a 5' step in the second round.

[Speaker for the Dead]

What if you got six friends to touch you, then cast the spell?

[Quatar]

I agree with people that say option C is correct.
I think you should be able to take a 5 foot step even between two touches. I mean you can take a 5 foot step between two swings of your sword, so you should be able to take one here as well.

Speaker for the Dead wrote:

What if you got six friends to touch you, then cast the spell?

Doesn't work. It's magic, and it involves some sort of willingness of you to transfer the magic to someone. Therefor it costs you an action.

I know touching someone will discharge it if you want or not, but simply have 5 people holding on to you won't work. It's not like your entire body is suddenly a magic conductor.

[andreww]

I have always considered it to be C. If you use a touch attack spell like say Harm the touch attack is part of the standard action to cast the spell. You dont have to cast Harm one round then touch the target the next.

If people apply A or B then I would recommend any caster wanting to use Communal spells to grab Reach spell and turn them into close range to save on actions.

[Arssanguinus]

Well, if by touching you THEY. Have to expend an action, then I wouldn't see thee problem with it, really - six players expending their action to let you keep an action? Seems like that's not a game breaker. Even if they only have to expend, say, a move action to do so. Wouldn't seem to break the action economy.

[Ughbash]

I always used it as option D.

Cast a SA spell as a standard action (which would allow you to touch one friend) and then use the rest of the round touching your other friends.

Which is closer to A then other things though you are still casting the spell as a standard action.

For what it is worth this may make a good FAQ candidate. I Faq'd the post listing the three options.

[Drachasor]

Quote:

You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.

[Joesi]

Arssanguinus wrote:

Well, if by touching you THEY. Have to expend an action, then I wouldn't see thee problem with it, really - six players expending their action to let you keep an action? Seems like that's not a game breaker. Even if they only have to expend, say, a move action to do so. Wouldn't seem to break the action economy.

I agree.

Or at least at the worst, One could house-rule that it could be like a swift action for the user to channel the touching from himself to those touching him, since it may still exert some energy to be able to expend the charge to the right targets despite everyone already being in contact.

[Brogue The Rogue]

Drachasor wrote:

Quote:

You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.

There it is! THAT is the text he cited. I couldn't find it for the life of me.

So this is pretty clear. You can alter the spell's casting time to a full-round action to touch up to six targets, all without holding the charge. There's definitely no moving allowed, though, with the exception of a five-foot step, since any movement other than a five-foot step would interrupt the action (which isn't permissible).

So that makes it Not A-D, but E: Full round action to cast the spell, of which touching six friends is part of that action, and no movement may be taken other than a five foot step.

That seems clear to me, now. Any other opinions on this?

[Heymitch]

Brogue, I'm glad you found the answer you were looking for.

Now, can you show us on this doll where the Wizard touched you?

[Drachasor]

Brogue The Rogue wrote:

Drachasor wrote:

Quote:

You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.

There it is! THAT is the text he cited. I couldn't find it for the life of me.

So this is pretty clear. You can alter the spell's casting time to a full-round action to touch up to six targets, all without holding the charge. There's definitely no moving allowed, though, with the exception of a five-foot step, since any movement other than a five-foot step would interrupt the action (which isn't permissible).

So that makes it Not A-D, but E: Full round action to cast the spell, of which touching six friends is part of that action, and no movement may be taken other than a five foot step.

That seems clear to me, now. Any other opinions on this?

That's NOT what it says.

If it is a standard action casting time, then AS PART OF THE CASTING, you can touch 6 people.

If you don't, but the spell lets you hold a charge, then NEXT round you can touch up to six people, but it is a full-round action.

Why 6 people as a standard (or even SWIFT!) action when you cast the spell, but a full-round if you hold the charge and do it in another round? No idea. It doesn't make a lot of sense. That, however, is what the rules say.

Well, alternatively you could read it as not allowing multiple touches during the casting IF you can hold the spell charge for multiple rounds. That seems a bit bizarre.

[Brogue The Rogue]

You are completely right, Drachasor. I had actually come back here to amend my statement to what you just stated when I was rereading it and typing it up for my players, but I'm glad I restated to make sure I had it in that older post.

I have to say, it's very odd how they have that set up, and not in the least bit counter intuitive. *rolls eyes* It's free to do as a standard action when you cast the spell, but it takes more time to touch six people than it does to cast a spell AND touch six people when you're just holding the charge. Odd, but, well, whatever. The rules are the rules, and knowing how they're supposed to work lets us adjust them as works best for us.

Thanks a ton for all the insight, everyone, and Drachasor, for the proper citation and proper clarification.

And thank you Wizards for splitting what is basically one set of rules into two different chapters of text. xD

[Xaratherus]

Since the thread seems to be wrapping up, I had to pop in and say:

"How to touch 6 friends": Plan on a really high liquor bill.