I have written a new class for a home brew world I am launching for my new campaign to celebrate my return from a year in Japan.
I would love any feedback that could be offered.
The class is call Champion of the Kami, and is a Paladin Alternate class.
It can be found Here
I am planning on adding Bear and Butterfly as additional Kami.
If anyone has any ideas or feedback please share.
You may want to add the option of receiving an Atonement spell in the alignment restriction part.
The "may not act in a way so as to deprive another of free will", if taken literally, would deny the Champion any chance of being an adventurer. You can't kill the "bad guy" - dead people no longer have free will. You can't restrain them, capture them, or even make them change their ways.
Although it may not help, I've developed a project with Rite Publishing in creating Kaidan setting of Japanese horror. I am half-Japanese and based on a love of my heritage, history and folklore, we've developed a very authentic Japanese setting, adventures and supplements - even including our own version of a kami based paladin, called the Yamabushi.
Our Kaidan book on the samurai caste, Way of the Samurai feature 4 archetypes for samurai, 1 for onmyoji wizard, 1 for yojimbo ranger, 1 for teppou bushi gunslinger, 2 prestige classes, traits, feats and rules for designing a samurai clan.
We have a similar book for Yakuza, Way of the Yakuza featuring 2 rogue archetypes, 1 tattooist wizard archetype, 1 blind bard archetype, 1 bushi fighter archetype, and rules for designing custom yakuza gangs.
We have a GM's Guide and Player's Guide to the setting currently in development after a successful Kickstarter last summer, expectiing released in Oct/Nov 2013. More classes, divine and otherwise will appear in these volumes.
Here's a sneak peek at the finished map of the islands of Kaidan, I just completed...
If you need additional Japanese setting support material based on a heavy dose of authenticity, Kaidan might be your ticket. One thing though Kaidan is Japanese for 'ghost story', as this is intended as an Asian horror setting, though our supplements work for any oriental game.
I've never had the opportunity to spend a year in Japan, but I have spent 6 months between 2 trips in the past.
To both VRMH and gamer-printer,
My thanks.
I am currently working on some changes to the champion, as I decided to move all of the Auras around, and I am working on new more appropriate names for them.
I have reworded the code slightly to make it more clear that interfering with free will is based around control such as charm spells or dominate magic.
I also am still working on Bear and Butterfly Kami.
Did either of you find the Kami choices to be either over or under powered?
@Gamer-Printer,
I have actually been looking at your Kaidan Kickstarter and you have intrigued me with it before.
While I have my own setting, that I am putting the finishing touches on, I am actually planning on purchasing some Kaidan stuff to help with some of my world areas as I enjoy what I have seen so far.
Just to gush, the cherry blossoms are out early in Ueno this year. I would recommend looking them up online as people are saying that they are particularly nice.
I loved them this weekend, it is like being in another world at the festival in Ueno park.
鬼ごっこ=Scary!
I am sure you have seen かくれんぼ, but if not please enjoy it. :-)
Sorry for the rambling, but it is just nice to share an interest.
I get laughed at when we all go out after work because I like to tell Japanese ghost stories after a few beers and the guys think it is hilarious coming from an アメリカ人.
Anyway all the best of luck with Kaidan.
P.S. Sorry if the Japanese is bad, my writing/reading is distinctly worse than my listening/speaking.
Not sure why it's a new class when it could work as an archetype. Most of the class feature stay as normal paladin except for choosing a kami patron so to speak?
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I like the class, but I think it's a bit odd as a specifically chaotic good Paladin variant. All it does mechanically is give alternatives to the paladin's mount and give the option to swap spellcasting for bonus feats, and the Kami are of many alignments. Aside from the code, there's nothing in there that says "Chaotic Good" to me.
I agree with Corvo Spiritwind that this seems more like a paladin archetype.
VRMH is right that the code could use adjustment. I don't see your adjustment so I can't tell if you've fixed it, but I'd recommend making a division against restrictions on free will that are allowed in order to prevent evil or oppressive acts (you are allowed to use some means to prevent murder or enslavement, but may not use any means to prevent someone from engaging in nondestructive artistic expression) and restrictions on free will that are never acceptable no matter what the circumstances or end (use of compulsion magic).
As a related note, I'd see a CG champion as having an interesting position regarding taking prisoners. Namely, though they can offer and accept surrender, if an opponent chooses to fight to the death they are required to respect that opponent's preference for death over imprisonment and would not be allowed to take that opponent prisoner.
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I like it. It's a nice coherent CG paladin alternative :)
But how do you explain being a CG Champion to kami that may be (for example) LN? It can be explained, I'm sure, but it does deserve a comment in the class description...
Kudos on having a CG code that looks playable but not too much an easy way out; having to stand up to authority can be risky after all :)
Not sure why it's a new class when it could work as an archetype. Most of the class feature stay as normal paladin except for choosing a kami patron so to speak?
I like the class, but I think it's a bit odd as a specifically chaotic good Paladin variant. All it does mechanically is give alternatives to the paladin's mount and give the option to swap spellcasting for bonus feats, and the Kami are of many alignments. Aside from the code, there's nothing in there that says "Chaotic Good" to me.
I agree with Corvo Spiritwind that this seems more like a paladin archetype.
VRMH is right that the code could use adjustment. I don't see your adjustment so I can't tell if you've fixed it, but I'd recommend making a division against restrictions on free will that are allowed in order to prevent evil or oppressive acts (you are allowed to use some means to prevent murder or enslavement, but may not use any means to prevent someone from engaging in nondestructive artistic expression) and restrictions on free will that are never acceptable no matter what the circumstances or end (use of compulsion magic).
I agree, and honestly this is just a first draft to see how well received the idea could be. The boards have some very intelligent, very knowledgeable, and very opinionated people in attendance and I figured if the rough sketch could tantalize or interest this audience it was worth working on.
I plan to release a V2.0 and will post it in this thread soon.
Please understand however that I am in the middle of transferring back to the United States from Japan and will be busy so it may be as soon as today or as late as next week just depending on what time I am able to find available.
As a related note, I'd see a CG champion as having an interesting position regarding taking prisoners. Namely, though they can offer and accept surrender, if an opponent chooses to fight to the death they are required to respect that opponent's preference for death over imprisonment and would not be allowed to take that opponent prisoner.
I agree on the use of prisons/enslavement.
If a person chooses to willingly accept judgement and prison/surrender/wage debt as right then as long as evil is not being perpetuated on them the Champion could/would allow it, however a Champion would never be part of unwilling imprisonment he would offer them the option of surrender or death as you describe.
I like it. It's a nice coherent CG paladin alternative :)
But how do you explain being a CG Champion to kami that may be (for example) LN? It can be explained, I'm sure, but it does deserve a comment in the class description...
Kudos on having a CG code that looks playable but not too much an easy way out; having to stand up to authority can be risky after all :)
Thank you.
I will be as I said releasing some more on this in the near future.
As for why they are CG, that is more based in the setting I have written and the fact that the Champions sprout from a Race that was literally created as slaves and used as such by godlike beings for centuries.
Freedom is literary the basis of all that this race finds good and slavery is the most abhorrent crime in their society.
The race learned of the Native spirits called Kami from a sect of neighboring humanity and began to find individual powerful Kami with which to cooperate and create bonds.
From this the Champions were born.
I will neaten up my notes and provide some links however this could take some time as I have several hundred pages of notes and writing for this setting.
I plan on providing the V2.0 Champion first.
Well I got some free time today and finished up a lot of what I wanted for the Champion, so I will post a Version 2.0 later after I return home.
You may want to add the option of receiving an Atonement spell in the alignment restriction part.
The "may not act in a way so as to deprive another of free will", if taken literally, would deny the Champion any chance of being an adventurer. You can't kill the "bad guy" - dead people no longer have free will. You can't restrain them, capture them, or even make them change their ways.
The code of conduct may leave too much open to interpretation. Perhaps say, "They champion the oppressed, killing the oppressors if necessary."
I have made some changes, and added some things.
Please critique Champion 2.0.
I hope you all find this an improvement.
Any and all feedback is welcome and wanted.
Also, thank you to everyone who commented on my first version.
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Your new writeup clarifies things a bit more, that's nice.
I've got some comments about the individual kami:
Monkey: does this mean that Monkey is the only one who casts spells?
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Bear: Might of the Ursine is an enhancement bonus; so it doesn't stack with Bull's Strength or the Belt of Strength. I agree in principle with the idea of strength for the bear kami, but I think enhancement is a bad choice as bonus type. Your special blessing is easily duplicated with equipment, and at lower levels too. If you changed it to a different type it would stack, and Bear Champions would be unusually strong. Maybe it should be an Inherent bonus?
Cub Protector: what does absorbing damage mean? Does that mean the champion negates the damage, or that the champion takes the damage instead of the ally?
Thick Pelt: I think this ability could start at a lower level; Amulet of Natural Armor is affordable (WBL-wise) at a much lower level.
In general, if a class feature is going to replace equipment, particularly staple equipment like ability/AC boosters, it shouldn't lag behind significantly; otherwise players would be better off buying the equipment even though they get that same type of bonus already. If (as it seems) you're replacing the not-insignificant paladin spellcasting with these powers, you can afford to be on par or even slightly better than the equipment version.
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Butterfly kami: I like the flavor, but I'm not sure about Death's Envoy; you get some spells really late (Restoration!). But do you have to pay expensive material component costs for them (Restoration!)?
Maybe it could give you some acrobatic abilities, perhaps less speed reduction by armor? Otherwise you're still a heavy clod in full plate pretending to be a graceful butterfly :P
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Steel: this one feels a LOT more powerful than the other kami, particularly at low levels.
Blessing of Steel: this power is pretty nifty; it means you get to use all kinds of exotic weapons without a fuss. It doesn't have to be OP, but it's quite a big ability.
Steel Brother: also quite powerful, but it's not quite as dippable.
Bonus Feats: getting Steel Soul if you're not a dwarf raises the question how much bonus you get; +2 or +4?
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Associates:
A Champion may accept only
henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic Good.
This is somewhat vague. Does it mean the Champion will only accept Good followers, or also others?
Your new writeup clarifies things a bit more, that's nice.
I've got some comments about the individual kami:
Monkey: does this mean that Monkey is the only one who casts spells?
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Yes, Monkey is the only Kami that grants spells. I am thinking about adding a fox Kami who accesses an arcane 4 level list later.
Bear: Might of the Ursine is an enhancement bonus; so it doesn't stack with Bull's Strength or the Belt of Strength. I agree in principle with the idea of strength for the bear kami, but I think enhancement is a bad choice as bonus type. Your special blessing is easily duplicated with equipment, and at lower levels too. If you changed it to a different type it would stack, and Bear Champions would be unusually strong. Maybe it should be an Inherent bonus?Cub Protector: what does absorbing damage mean? Does that mean the champion negates the damage, or that the champion takes the damage instead of the ally?
Thick Pelt: I think this ability could start at a lower level; Amulet of Natural Armor is affordable (WBL-wise) at a much lower level.
In general, if a class feature is going to replace equipment, particularly staple equipment like ability/AC boosters, it shouldn't lag behind significantly; otherwise players would be better off buying the equipment even though they get that same type of bonus already. If (as it seems) you're replacing the not-insignificant paladin spellcasting with these powers, you can afford to be on par or even slightly better than the equipment version.
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I was slightly worried about the advancement rate of Both thick pelt and might of the ursine as well, however for the last year I have been building and discarding melee builds to get the fastest, most efficient damage access possible, and in all of the simulations, of which I now have about two and a half dozen spreadsheets with 1-20 progressions for 5-10 classes/builds each, this progression of bonuses puts you behind only for the +1 Natural armor/ +2 strength gains and ahead for the +2/+3/+4 as well as the +4/+6.
I may tweak the advancement slightly, but I feel opening up two equipment slots and allowing for reallocation of WBL is a powerful factor already, and would like to do some playtesting first.
For cub protector, I will clarify the ability. It is supposed to simply transfer the damage to the Champion. So if you expend a use of Wash Clean while your Cleric friend who is low on HP and is adjacent takes a crit you may instead take the damage yourself. I realize this should be an immediate rather than a swift action however.
Butterfly kami: I like the flavor, but I'm not sure about Death's Envoy; you get some spells really late (Restoration!). But do you have to pay expensive material component costs for them (Restoration!)?Maybe it could give you some acrobatic abilities, perhaps less speed reduction by armor? Otherwise you're still a heavy clod in full plate pretending to be a graceful butterfly :P
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As a spell-like no you do not have to pay components for using your abilities, that is one reason it is so late.
I am worried that butterfly may be too weak, I will look at it.
Steel: this one feels a LOT more powerful than the other kami, particularly at low levels.Blessing of Steel: this power is pretty nifty; it means you get to use all kinds of exotic weapons without a fuss. It doesn't have to be OP, but it's quite a big ability.
Steel Brother: also quite powerful, but it's not quite as dippable.
Bonus Feats: getting Steel Soul if you're not a dwarf raises the question how much bonus you get; +2 or +4?
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For steel soul my intent was +4 and I believe that the current version would allow that however I will clarify.
In all honesty Blessing of steel is very nifty and helps a "Steel Brother" act in a thematic way, however mechanically it is normally only a +1 damage boost at most unless used with a Falcata, as most martial weapons are quite good. (Nodachi, Rapier, Scimitar, Kukri...)
Even with Falcata it is only a very marginal boost over Falchion or Nodachi two handed and a slightly larger one over Rapier, Scimitar or Kukri one-handed. In short it is very fluffy but the crunch is only ok.
One unintended consequence now that I think about it however it that technically Steel Brothers are proficient with all firearms...
That does make the ability better, however it is still only marginal in my opinion.
Steel skin is just armor training light.
Steel brother and the bonus feats are the big pay-off, but I am honestly wondering how DR x/- along with two bonus feats stacks up against spellcasting, or penalty free use of a tower shield, or what some of the other Kami give.
In truth the Kami I wondered if they were too weak were Steel, Butterfly, and Cat.
Associates:
Quote:A Champion may accept only
henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic Good.This is somewhat vague. Does it mean the Champion will only accept Good followers, or also others?
I will clarify this, a champion may only accept Good followers so Lawful good, neutral good, or chaotic good.
I do thank you very much for your feedback and am going to take a look at the areas mentioned.
While I like the different Kami choices and the bonuses they grant, I DO think this would work better as an archetype than a new class.
It's really just a reflavored Paladin besides the alignment and Kami abilities, with Monkey being a standard Paladin and the others being a lot like the Shapeshifter Ranger in concept, i.e. "Give up X (spells in this case) to gain your choice of Y abilities".
Overall it looks nice but isn't really meaty enough to be a full class.
Also, where's the Dragon? =)
Interesting... Not much else to add.
I would change the Might of the Ursine bonus to a Sacred or Morale Bonus.
You are the second person to suggest a boost to the Might of the Ursine.
I will take a look and run some numbers. I am just afraid that giving a +6 bonus that stacks with belt/book might bee to much, but as I said I will have to model it.
I just do not want this to be "the" martial that is better than any other.
While I like the different Kami choices and the bonuses they grant, I DO think this would work better as an archetype than a new class.It's really just a reflavored Paladin besides the alignment and Kami abilities, with Monkey being a standard Paladin and the others being a lot like the Shapeshifter Ranger in concept, i.e. "Give up X (spells in this case) to gain your choice of Y abilities".
Overall it looks nice but isn't really meaty enough to be a full class.
Also, where's the Dragon? =)
I agree it is very close mechanically to the paladin, however with the Kami and all of the aura changes along with the spell list and code changes I found it easier to keep straight using a full write-up. I may cut it down to an archetype in the final version as you are not alone in recommending this.
As for Dragon Kami, unfortunately the setting I am writing does not have dragons at all, so there are as yet no dragon Kami known.
To blackbloodtroll, Rynjin, and all of the others who have taken the time to respond,
My thanks.
P.S. What do you all think of Butterfly and Cat Kami? I fear they are too weak.
Edit:
@Azaelas Fayth,
My thanks to you as well.
Cat looks good if you want a TWF-ing Paladin.
Butterfly is distinctly meh. Since it's supposed to be the Healing one, perhaps giving it the ability to (like a Cleric) spontaneously cast Cure spells and at later levels giving it the Healing Domain abilities (empowered healing spells automatically is nice I think).
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I think the problem with Butterfly is that getting "ordinary" Restoration at level 19 is just way too late. Bypassing costs is nice, but by that level the money isn't all that significant.
On the other hand, getting an entirely free ride at earlier levels might be bad too. How about instead having a slow-mode Restoration that's cheap? Like taking several days of intense treatment to restore someone. (Listening to soothing/inspiring music, saunas, massages, herbal teas, meditation...)
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Bear: I suggested Inherent instead of Enhancement because that way it won't stack with the Tome (but slightly outperform it). Personally I like the idea that Bear champions are among the strongest people around, even among the "Belt Crowd".
Freeing up slots is nice, but I'm not convinced it's all that spectacular, since you can also add multiple properties to a single item for a surcharge to the cheaper properties.
Cat looks good if you want a TWF-ing Paladin.
Butterfly is distinctly meh. Since it's supposed to be the Healing one, perhaps giving it the ability to (like a Cleric) spontaneously cast Cure spells and at later levels giving it the Healing Domain abilities (empowered healing spells automatically is nice I think).
I think the problem with Butterfly is that getting "ordinary" Restoration at level 19 is just way too late. Bypassing costs is nice, but by that level the money isn't all that significant.
On the other hand, getting an entirely free ride at earlier levels might be bad too. How about instead having a slow-mode Restoration that's cheap? Like taking several days of intense treatment to restore someone. (Listening to soothing/inspiring music, saunas, massages, herbal teas, meditation...)
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Bear: I suggested Inherent instead of Enhancement because that way it won't stack with the Tome (but slightly outperform it). Personally I like the idea that Bear champions are among the strongest people around, even among the "Belt Crowd".
Freeing up slots is nice, but I'm not convinced it's all that spectacular, since you can also add multiple properties to a single item for a surcharge to the cheaper properties.
Cat: It seems like no-one has a problem with this Kami, I was just afraid that no penalty TWF along with 4 bonus feats might be worth less than 4 level spell casting. However I will leave it this way for my play-testing and see.
Butterfly: I agree, the last tier of Spell-likes should have something else besides restoration.
I think I am going to rewrite the spell-likes list and allow for selection rather then dictate what is given.
Bear: Currently a Paladin Smiting is already > all other martials in DPR. What I was afraid of was making the bonus so great/attractive that it meant even when not smiting the champion would be so close to Barbarian/Fighter that there would be no reason not to take champion over Barbarian/Fighter.
I am currently running some numbers, and from what I see if I make it a non-enhancement bonus then from levels 4-8 non-smiting non weapon bond using Bear Champion DPR > Paladin/Fighter/Barbarian DPR. Adding Weapon bond and, Smite or Companion and smite to this may in my opinion be too much. The Gap between Champion and Fighter/Barbarian past level 8 could easily be bridged with use of a companion or bond, meaning that the Champion would always be doing as much damage as a fighter or raging barbarian and would when smiting be doing much more.
I am still only running the initial numbers however and will continue to model so as to get a more complete picture.
My thanks for your feedback :-)
I promise I am actually considering any and all feedback so as to adjust the Champion and allow for a more fun and playable class. I am just cautious and like to spreadsheet changes before announcing them.
Float like a Butterfly, They levitate and hover for 1 round per charisma bonus plus Champion level, once per 10 minute interval. They can carry one person. They can move 10 foot a round as a move action, up or down, and when they run out of time, they feather fall. They may use a silk lasso to move laterally.
Try it granted at various levels.
To all who have contributed to this thread/class with your feedback, an update.
I am currently moving from Japan to the US and am just getting access to the internet again.
It will be at least several days if not a week before I can post another version of the Champion of the Kami.
I thank you all for your time and feedback and promise it will all be given consideration in the next iteration of the Champion.
Good luck, and please do. I like very much this idea.
To all of you who were kind enough to add feedback to this thread in the past my most sincere apologies for this extremely delayed response, however real life concerns have not allowed any leisure time for me in the past several months.
I have worked on the Bear and Butterfly Kami as spoken of earlier and am currently working on a Fox Kami.
Any additional feedback is welcome and appreciated, as I believe that this version of the Champion is slightly better balanced.
I hope you all enjoy.
Quick update before bed,
I have added the companions for Bear and Butterfly Kami to my latest version, and will publish it after I finish Fox Kami which will be a four level arcane caster focusing in the illusion and transmutation schools so far.
I will try to put it up tomorrow.
Thank you all again for looking at this.
The spell lists. Certain Kami should have spells, only on their lists.
The butterfly would have feather fall, levitate, and fly. The Fox would have Pass without Trace and Fox's cunning.
The spell lists. Certain Kami should have spells, only on their lists.
The butterfly would have feather fall, levitate, and fly. The Fox would have Pass without Trace and Fox's cunning.
First I would like to sincerely thank you for your time and feedback.
Currently only Monkey Kami has spell-casting, at 4th level divine.
I was planning on adding Fox with 4th level arcane, whose spell list will be completely different.
Are you saying you feel each Kami should offer spell-casting instead of the special abilities I have given them but just with a unique spell list?
What are the companions for the new kami? Bear's obvious, but Butterfly?
I'm suggesting make the Butterfly Cami have flight, through powers or magic, and move the grim reaper powers over to the Crow Cami.
A huge luna moth would make an excellent companion for the Butterfly Cami.
What are the companions for the new kami? Bear's obvious, but Butterfly?
Butterfly is a Giant Butterfly, using the stats for Giant wasp from Ultimate Magic.
If it is not too much to ask could you give me your thoughts on the new Final Flight ability for Butterfly, and the changes to Bear?
I'm suggesting make the Butterfly Cami have flight, through powers or magic, and move the grim reaper powers over to the Crow Cami.
Ah now I understand.
Thank you for your feedback.
dot
Just a Quick update,
I am still working on the new Fox Kami. For all that are interested I believe this will be the last of the Kami.
I am curious what others think of Butterfly's "Final Flight" ability, as some of my local play-testers have recommended I limit it to only being usable for a number of rounds per day equal to the Champion's Charisma modifier + 3 and have no reset, feeling otherwise it is too powerful.
They are further recommending that Might of the Ursine may be too powerful at +10 and should perhaps be scaled down to +8.
I am curious to get some more input on these abilities.
Well after a period of pursuing other projects and lots of Real world work I have returned to the Champion of the Kami Class. My apologies for the delay.
I would love any critiques anyone would be willing to offer for this iteration as I feel it is much closer to finished.
I have the new version at Champion of the Kami
Butterfly, Boons, and Fox are of particular concern.
Also the Fox spell list, any feedback is appreciated however.
I am worried also about the changes to Steel Kami's DR.
Any Ideas?
I am concerned about Fox Kami's Spell list being too strong early and too weak later.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
I appreciate all of those who have taken the time to look at this.
I have removed all of the earlier versions of the Champion of the Kami, only V4.0 is available to avoid confusion.
My thanks for any and all interest and feedback.
If you need anything answered please feel free to contact me.