Alter Self.

[Vincent The Dark]

Can I Alter Self into myself and just get the +2 to str.?

Alternatively, can I alter self into a Tengu with 2 claws and a beak attack (natural weapons)?

[MrSin]

My brother has been doing that at PFS and no ones complained, and I don't see anything against it. Turning yourself into yourself I mean. Not so sure about the tengu one, becuase most tengu don't actually have those claws.

[Vincent The Dark]

MrSin wrote:

My brother has been doing that at PFS and no ones complained, and I don't see anything against it. Turning yourself into yourself I mean. Not so sure about the tengu one, becuase most tengu don't actually have those claws.

It does say any humanoid.

[Dysfunction]

have you read the description of the polymorph school?

[ZomB]

Yeah, the magic chapter, polymorph school section, gets no love. It should be mandatory reading for PFS GMs, as a lot of things seem to slide under the radar in the name of polymorph.

PRD polymorph magic: "Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type."

Therefore you cannot change into yourself, just a generic member of your species.

PRD polymorph magic: "you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks."

Therefore if the generic creature of that type has natural attacks you gain them. Tengu's only have a bite attack as standard.

EDIT: there are two other polymorph rules that often get overlooked:
1) You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time.
2) spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell (for example Enlarge Person)

Hmm, which casters benefit from this when you could take Bull's Strength?

[Gauss]

ZomB, you can use both Bull's Strength and Alter Self and benefit from both. Bull's Strength is not a polymorph spell. Alter Self does not provide an enhancement bonus to strength.

There are quite a few ways to get Alter Self.

One bit of cheese: spend 1200gp to have a level 15 wizard cast Polymorph Any Object on you to give you a permanent Alter Self effect.

- Gauss

[Mark A. Nattress]

Polymorph Subschool - Core Rulebook pg 212 wrote:

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

With this you want to pay attention to the Natural Attacks section of combat in the Core Rulebook.

pg 182 wrote:

You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack.

[ZomB]

Gauss wrote:

There are quite a few ways to get Alter Self.

From an optimisation viewpoint I was wondering which caster's benefit from this, and is it worth preparing it? Wizards/Sorcerors/Witch/Summoner don't usually benefit from strength. Magus probably, Bard possibly.

Of course if other melee characters can get this it is a neat idea.

[Shfish]

It is a good short term buff if all you want is a size bonus to dex or str that stacks with your belts. Technically if I am small and cast it for another small person, I still get the bonus.

Optimization? Not really unless you actually get time to buff before combat.

[M_78]

I can think of at least one caster type that benefits from high strength: Dragon-Blooded Sorcerer with Dragon Desciple PRC. Use free Form of Dragon and BAM you can melee brute as a caster if things get hairy.

On a related note, does Alter self remove inherent special abilities? like Darkvision if say, a merfolk sorc sued it to get legs to walk around with? Would a Magic Item (Ring just as a for instance) remove racial traits like DV?

[master_marshmallow]

M_78 wrote:

I can think of at least one caster type that benefits from high strength: Dragon-Blooded Sorcerer with Dragon Desciple PRC. Use free Form of Dragon and BAM you can melee brute as a caster if things get hairy.

On a related note, does Alter self remove inherent special abilities? like Darkvision if say, a merfolk sorc sued it to get legs to walk around with? Would a Magic Item (Ring just as a for instance) remove racial traits like DV?

I'm fairly certain that, by changing you gain the qualities of the new race, but lose your own, with the exception of ability modifiers.

A halfling bard, rogue with scrolls, or a paladin who takes it with unsanctioned knowledge would benefit greatly as this bonus stacks with your enhancement bonuses.

[Artanthos]

ZomB wrote:

Hmm, which casters benefit from this when you could take Bull's Strength?

Dervish Dance magus -> alter self -> goblin. +2 dexterity, +1 to hit, +1 AC, darkvision. Works on tieflings.

[David_Bross]

alter self into any small humanoid gives an effective plus 2 to AC. Choose one with a decent movement speed, some darkvision/low-light, or even scent, and you've got a hell of a bargin for a 2nd level spell.

[Rashagar]

What would a generic human even look like? Would it fall into the uncanny valley for any human npc that looked at it?

[master_marshmallow]

Rashagar wrote:

What would a generic human even look like? Would it fall into the uncanny valley for any human npc that looked at it?

I'd imagine you can select different versions of particular races, like being able to get the big head as a goblin for a natural bite attack or something.

[blackbloodtroll]

Lizardfolk is a good option for gaining natural attacks.