One of my players has interest in making a gun-wielding bard using PFRPG rules. I was wondering what your take on this would be? He's particularly fond of pistols.
My first instinct is to do an arcane duelist bard with a one-level dip into mysterious stranger gunslinger. This way, he can choose a gun as his arcane bond and dual-wield pistols. Of course, take Rapid Reload, and the usual ranged feats such as Point-Black Shot and Precise Shot.
It's a bad idea as mysterious stranger loses the quick-clear deed and misfires happen. Without Quick-Clear, it is an HOUR to repair a broken firearm.
Well, he'd at least have access to mending. Doesn't help much in combat, but at least 10 minutes is more manageable than an hour.
Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger/Pistolero)5/Bard X should do it. He'll lose some of the Bard's versatility, but he'll be able to deal lots of damage with his firearms.
The loss of BAB is not such a problem when you get to target Touch AC.
EDIT: Also, check the Dawnflower Dervish Bard archetype for a more "selfish buffing" character. The free Dervish Dance feat means he can even enter melee without problem.
Although I still prefer the vanilla bard.
I don't think Mending gets rid of the Broken Condition of a gun. Misfires don't actually cause damage to the gun, they just gain the broken condition.
The Gunsmithing Feat explicitly says it takes an hour to fix a broken gun, unless you use the Quick Clear Deed.
Actually Mending does fix the broken condition.
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It says that Mending removes the broken condition if the object is restored to more than half it's hit points.
Misfiring doesn't deal hit point damage to the gun, it just gives it the broken condition.
Thus Mending works because the gun has over half its hit points.
Logic 101 ;)
That'll keep him going through the low levels until he gets Mending.
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It says that Mending removes the broken condition if the object is restored to more than half it's hit points.
Misfiring doesn't deal hit point damage to the gun, it just gives it the broken condition.
Thus Mending works because the gun has over half its hit points.
Logic 101 ;)
it says that if the Object was Restored to half it's hit points. If the object never lost hit points, then it is impossible for mending to restore them, and if Mending doesn't restore hit points, then the broken condition doesn't go away.
This one might have to come down to individual GM ruling pending a FAQ. I'd personally rule alongside Banecrow at my own table, but I tend to be lenient on things like that.
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it says that if the Object was Restored to half it's hit points. If the object never lost hit points, then it is impossible for mending to restore them, and if Mending doesn't restore hit points, then the broken condition doesn't go away.It says that Mending removes the broken condition if the object is restored to more than half it's hit points.
Misfiring doesn't deal hit point damage to the gun, it just gives it the broken condition.
Thus Mending works because the gun has over half its hit points.
Logic 101 ;)
Cool. All you have to do is damage the gun, and Mending works.
Tap it with a dagger, and now the spell works.
it says that if the Object was Restored to half it's hit points. If the object never lost hit points, then it is impossible for mending to restore them, and if Mending doesn't restore hit points, then the broken condition doesn't go away.It says that Mending removes the broken condition if the object is restored to more than half it's hit points.
Misfiring doesn't deal hit point damage to the gun, it just gives it the broken condition.
Thus Mending works because the gun has over half its hit points.
Logic 101 ;)
Lets say your character is at full hit points. The cleric in your party does a channel energy and you get healed for 8 pts of damage. Even though you did not need the healing does not mean you didnt get it anyways.
Mending restores hit points, just because it doesnt need them doesnt mean the magic doesnt have its effect. The magic still takes place, just one aspect of the spell is not needed the other part works.
Hence Jury Rig. Jury Rig to get you through the encounter, fix the gun in off-time, until you get Mending.
Optimal? Probably not, but then neither is mixing Bard and Gunslinger in the first place. This at least makes it workable.
Even if that's true, he'd still need to be a 4th level Bard for it to work. That's a long time to wait to be able to fix the broken condition on your weapon.
Yep you are right about that, but even if he takes gunslinger 1 and bard 4, being able to remove a broken condition in the middle of combat at 5th level would be a huge deal.
Wish I wasn't at work right now lol. I am sure there are all sorts of things I could research in my books to lower that some.
Are there not feats that give you + caster levels for when you multi class? Traits to increase your caster level with a specific spell?
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I mean, I'm confused as to how this is all going to work:
You need 5 levels of Gunslinger to get the Mysterious Stranger's ignore misfire ability
Then you need 2 levels of Bard to be able to cast jury rig on your gun, making it useable for 2 rounds (Well, 1 round really, because it's a standard action to cast).
Then you need 2 levels of Bard to make Mending work, so it doesn't take you an hour to fix your gun.
So you either take the 5 levels of Gunslinger to get the misfire ignore ability and then hope that you don't burn through it before you get your 4 levels of Bard.
OR you take 1 level of Gunslinger, and then you take 4 levels of Bard, and then another 4 levels of gunslinger?
Either way, you're gonna be like 5th level before the build is even close to not being a pain in the butt compared to a Gunslinger with Quick-Clear.
And if you go 1 level of gunslinger, 4 levels of bard, and then 4 levels of Gunslinger, you're going to be 9th level before you get your Dex to damage from Pistol training.
I'm stunned at all the good advice and discussion here!
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Somebody been watching "El Mariachi" and "Desperado" recently?
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Mysterious Stranger is a good synergy with the Bard's Charisma. Human? To help with the feat purchases?
Actually he wants to play a masked harlequin-like guy that has some Deadpool inspiration. He could arguably be any race since he's totally masked and moves unusually, as if being held up by strings. He could just be a human or maybe even a halfling on stilts or something.
I always interpreted that Mending restores an item if it has at least half hitpoints after the spell is completed -- regardless of whether or not it actually healed anything.
I mentioned the greater risk misfire has to my player, and he said that the greater risk actually sounds appealing flavor-wise. That he has to make a date with Lady Luck in order to keep on shooting. Even in worst-case scenario, he's still a bard and still useful to his party, which may be an argument against picking a more selfish archetype.
Pistolero sounds like an awesome idea. At 5th level, blow 3 grit points to do an all-or-nothing TWF up close and deadly for 2 (PBS) + 2d6 + 2 * Charisma modifier.
Well, are Revolvers allowed?
Yes, but obviously they have to be paid for.
Why not take Arcane Duelist with the feat Amateur Gunsling and take the Deed Quick Clear. You save most of your troubles, you just need to have a decent wisdom score. I understand the idea for Mysterious Stranger, but I would rather have a working weapon through the fighting without casting some spell.
Just a question can you stack Mysterious Stranger and Pistolero archtypes?
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Yes, Pistolero does not replace Gun Training.The RAI on that is extremely questionable, even though the RAW doesn't replace it. I've houseruled that it does replace it, and will continue to houserule it because I see no need to let guns benefit from dex to damage twice. They already do insane damage.
And yet, still a houserule.
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Yes, Pistolero does not replace Gun Training.
Actually, no - Mike Brock commented in a thread just today that this will be going in an errata in late March that these two weren't supposed to stack and that doing so is exploiting a loophole.
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Yes, Pistolero does not replace Gun Training.Actually, no - Mike Brock commented in a thread just today that this will be going in an errata in late March that these two weren't supposed to stack and that doing so is exploiting a loophole.
Hmm, wasn't aware of that. I stand corrected. Officially not a houserule as of yesterday.
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If you don't take any levels in Gunslinger, you need gun proficiency, Gunsmithing, Amateur Gunslinger, and Rapid Reload, plus you need to craft yourself a firearm for half its cost: around 300-700 gold.
So you need a level in Gunslinger. Mysterious Stranger will let you dump your Wisdom, at the cost of the Quick Clear deed. But since Wisdom is also your Will save modifier, you probably shouldn't dump it anyway. I'd say just go regular Gunslinger and keep your Wisdom at 12 and you should be fine.
The Bard levels will give you some useful spells like Jury-Rig, as well as Inspire Courage to replace the Gun Training you likely won't get since you're not going five levels into Gunslinger. So you'd need Rapid Reload, Point-Blank Shot, and Rapid Shot ASAP. Human it is, then?
I wouldn't try dual-wielding, since then you won't have a free hand to reload. You also won't have the bonus feats necessary to get all the ranged combat feats you need plus the TWF line.
But I can see an Arcane Duelist splashing Gunslinger to get an Arcane Bond pistol, then mixing it up as a ranged damage dealer with buffs and spells for backup. Good luck!