Resilient Sphere + Call Lightning & Others

[MajorTotoro]

So, several questions about this little troublemaker

- Can a person inside a Resilient Sphere (RS from now on) cast Call Lightning?

- What happens to creatures summoned when the creature that summoned them is entrapped in a RS? Can they still receive orders?

- And Spiritual Weapons?

[MajorTotoro]

For That matter: what happens to any effect that remains connected to its caster once said caster is imprisoned in a RS? (such as Illusions or a Magic Jar spell)

[Kimera757]

This spell works as Wall of Force.

Quote:

Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through a wall of force in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier. It blocks ethereal creatures as well as material ones (though ethereal creatures can usually circumvent the wall by going around it, through material floors and ceilings). Gaze attacks can operate through a wall of force.

1) The wall does not block line of effect, but it does block spells. So presumably you could cast the spell from inside, but you couldn't be struck by said spell while inside. (This is the kind of thing the FAQ could/should address though. I'm answering further questions with my interpretation.)

2) Yes. That spell is still active. As long as they can hear orders, they'll follow them.

3) If you have already cast Spiritual Weapon, I'm pretty sure you can still direct the weapon. (And it'll keep going if you don't direct it.)

4) The wall doesn't block line of effect, so I think you could keep concentrating. However, if you were already locked outside, you wouldn't be able to create an illusion outside, or attack someone with Magic Jar from inside.

[MajorTotoro]

Say what? It seems pretty clear to me that it does block lines of effect:

"A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier."

A Wall of Force is a solid barrier by all standards, imho.

[MajorTotoro]

Nobody?

[Kayerloth]

I agree it (WoF or RS barrier) does block line of effect, it is a solid barrier. It's also invisible/does not block vision (or gaze attacks) which is why while I agree it blocks line of effect I also think Kimera757 is correct in thinking that an already established spell effect could be directed/redirected (Spiritual Weapon) or concentrating to maintain a spell would be possible. Could you effectively communicate to control a summoned creature ... maybe. I think that would be more a GM call, it doesn't require (as far as I know) line of effect but I think it would be reasonable for the GM to limit your ability to 'yell' and be heard thru the RS.

EDIT: The only time I see Line of Effect mentioned in the magic section of the CRB is the portion:

Quote:

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

No mention of Line of Effect in the immediately following section discussing Duration (and Concentration) for instance.

EDIT2: Call Lightning does get a bit fuzzy. I can see how it could be ruled you would be unable to call additional bolts down if RS was between you and where you wanted to target the bolt (a space in which you wish to create an effect) I'd be inclined short of an official rule to say the effect is already there ... concentration is all that's required now to bring down a lightning bolt.

[AerynTahlro]

Resilient Sphere blocks spells such as...
* Disintigrate
* Scorching Ray
* Dimensional Anchor
* Lightning Bolt
* Fireball
* etc (also includes physical attacks and environment)
(anything that requires that the spell starts at point A and travels to point B)

The Sphere will NOT prevent the following:
* Using Call Lightning (the bolts are vertical bolts that manifest above the target of the spell, not from your fingertips)
* Summoning creatures outside of the sphere
* Creatures being summoned INTO the sphere (if it's large enough for multiple creatures)
* Dominate Person (in or out)
* Flaming Spheres/Ball Lightning being summoned into or out (provided that there is open space within the sphere)

Resilient Sphere does not block line of sight and it does not act as an anti-magic field to prevent magic from coming in or leaving. It only prevents spells, attacks, environment, etc. that exists outside of the sphere from getting inside...and vice versa... don't try casting a fireball inside of a sphere (this could make life hilarious if you resilient sphere an enemy caster without them noticing...BOOM!)

Massive tidal wave coming? Resilient sphere and watch the water flow past.
You suddenly notice several Delayed Fireball beads appear next to you? Resilient Sphere around them and watch the contained explosion not hurt you or your companions.
Enemy archers lining up attacks again you? Resilient Sphere and watch the arrows bounce off in mid-air.
Get a bad feeling while inside of a trash compactor and concerned that it's about to get worse? Resilient Sphere and those walls won't be able to close.

By the way... I have yet to see anything about force attacks dampening or blocking sound.

[leo1925]

I am with Aeryn Tahlro.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

leo1925 wrote:

I am with Aeryn Tahlro.

Seconded. Motion carries.

[Dennis Baker]

Quote:

Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst's center point, a cone-shaped burst's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanation's point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect.

Seems pretty clear to me that the general rule is you must have line of effect to cast a spell. Wall of force/ resilient sphere blocks line of effect so you couldn't cast spells through it.

There are some specific exceptions called out in Wall of Force.

Quote:

Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through a wall of force in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier.

You can cast call lightning but its origin would have to be inside the resilient sphere. I believe summoning spells and teleportation effects are the big exceptions. Otherwise it's a spell barrier.

[andreww]

Resilient Sphere surrounds you in a solid Wall of Force, its a solid barrier which breaks line of effect. I wouldnt allow Dominate Person or Summons to be cast through such a barrier in either direction. I would allow existing effects to be controlled as they have already been brough into effect.

[Dennis Baker]

I'm honestly not sure about summoning myself. I seem to recall at one point that I read it was legal because it was similar enough to teleportation effects, but I don't know where I saw that, maybe an old Rules of the Game article from 3.5.

[gustavo iglesias]

You can't summon monsters or call lightining from a resiliant sphere, or behind a wall of force. You need Line of *EFFECT*, not line of Sight.

For the same reasons, you can't summon monster (summon swarm, call lighting, etc) INSIDE a resiliant sphere while you are out of it. The only exception is Teleport, Dimensional door, and other forms of dimensional travel.

[AerynTahlro]

The expanded definition of Line of Effect..

Quote:

A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst's center point, a cone-shaped burst's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanation's point of origin).

Summon Monster and Call Lightning are not burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spells.

Quote:

Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through a wall of force in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier.

You're interpreting "spells" to mean any spell that isn't teleportation. "Spells" actually means 'any spell that requires a direct line of between you and the target' (s/a Lightning Bolt or Scorching Ray). Teleport/Dimension Door and similar effects can bypass the barrier because they allow you to either teleport past, or conjure in a line of sight. If dimensional travel was the only exception, the spell would specifically say so.

Breath Weapons are Supernatural attacks that start at the creature's mouth and extend forward, hence why they are stopped by the wall. On the other hand, Gaze, which is also a Supernatural attack, goes right through the wall. Why? Because Gaze does not require physical passage of an ability between the originating point and the destination. Breath Weapons and Gaze attacks are specifically mentioned to give examples of what Supernatural attacks will not pass the barrier.

Wall of Force / Resilient Sphere do not...
* Block Line of Sight
* Block Line of Effect for spells that do not require LoE (Summon, Flaming Sphere, Call Lightning, etc.)
* Act as a anti-magic field
* Block vision/sound (or any of the other sense for that matter)

[Dennis Baker]

Again:

Quote:

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

It's pretty darned clear you have to have line of effect to the place where a spell happens (aka the origin).

Quote:

"Spells" actually means 'any spell that requires a direct line of between you and the target' (s/a Lightning Bolt or Scorching Ray).

No, spells actually means "Spells" aka the things you find in the "Spells" chapter of the carious books. You can't bomb a closed room with spells unless you have line of effect. For example you can't cast confusion or sleep "on the other side of that wall".

That's the whole point of line of effect, not just for wall of force, but through the whole game.

[gustavo iglesias]

AerynTahlro wrote:

Wall of Force / Resilient Sphere do not...

* Block Line of Sight
* Block Line of Effect for spells that do not require LoE (Summon, Flaming Sphere, Call Lightning, etc.)
* Act as a anti-magic field
* Block vision/sound (or any of the other sense for that matter)

Wall of force block any spell, except Teleport, Dimensional door, and similar effects, which are explicitly mentioned.

You can't summon a monster behind a wall of concrete. You can't summon a monster behind a wall of glass either. And you can't summon a monster behind a wall of force.

Actually, it's Line of Effect the only thing that matters. You don't need Line of Sight at all. That's why you can summon monster inside a pitch black Deeper Darkness Spell, or cast a lightning bolt through an Obscuring Mist. But you can't cast a lightning bolt through a Wall of Force, or summon monsters behind it.

The relevant quote is this:

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

[AerynTahlro]

Well, it seems that my group's (3 different play groups, actually... one with a DM who has been around since ~2.0) understanding of Line of Effect was completely wrong.

Thank you for correcting me.

[MajorTotoro]

Thanks for the input, guys! The issue has been cleared out on my play group.

There still seem to be some gray areas to this situation (particularly, how a Spiritual Weapon would work having been cast before the RS) but I think the most important issue has been cleared out.

Thanks!

[gustavo iglesias]

AerynTahlro wrote:

Well, it seems that my group's (3 different play groups, actually... one with a DM who has been around since ~2.0) understanding of Line of Effect was completely wrong.

Thank you for correcting me.

If you were understanding Line of Effect as something different to that, yes, you were understanding it wrong.

You don't even need a Wall of Force. A simple glass wall works.

Use this analogy:
Can you cast Summon Monster or Call Lighting behind a wall of concrete? No, you can't.
Can you cast Summon Monster or call Lightning behind a wall of concrete, if you have X-Ray Vision?
No, you can't, because there is not Line of Effect. You have line of Sight (thanks to your X-ray vision), but not line of effect.

Can you cast Summon Monster or Call Lightning behind a wall of diamonds (which you can see through them)?
No, because you don't have line of effect. You have line of sight, which is not enough.

If you substitute the wall of diamonds for a wall of glass, or a wall of force, or a resilient sphere, nothing changes. You still need a line of effect to be able to create an effect with a spell.