Why Mythic?

[Inferon]

I do not want to come across like I don’t want Paizo to write this book in my small rant. They will, and that’s fine. It is not for me, but I understand that some players will love it, and I am glad for them. My idea of the perfect RPG is going to be vastly different from many people, and I expect and accept that.

So, I don’t really understand why anyone would really want to play Mythic. As Pathfinder stands, all Player Characters are already borderline superheroes from first level onward already. For example, it used to be that 18 was the maximum any character could hope for in any given stat ever, and now it’s common to have first level characters to start with a 20 in their main stat. Magic items are everywhere. Furthermore, I don’t see what these rules can be used to represent that cannot already be represented with higher level characters. Why do we need to be even more godlike in a game where we are already so above the regular humanoid norm? Why does our high magic high fantasy game need to be even more so? I love Pathfinder, but this just seems like a bit much.

I think that this book to me is what Ultimate Combat was for many people. Some dislike firearms in their fantasy game, and others dislike eastern influences on their western setting. I don’t like being given more than what my race, class, and feats give me. So I’m just going to deal with it.

If anything, this seems to me the opposite direction they should have taken. I personally would like to see a source book that deals with lower magic campaigns. A campaign where magic items are very very rare. A campaign where casters may not be able to cast as often or as reliably or only at a great personal cost.

So, to conclude, I’d like to say again that I’m not against this book coming out. I’m glad for the people who are going to like this book, I just never see myself playing a Mythic game. To the people are psyched for Mythic, can you tell me what has you most excited? And to the people at Paizo, do you think we will ever see a lower magic, gritty source book?

[Tormad]

As a DM I am excited for this material as a different avenue to making bigger and better encounters. As you have stated Players are already borderline superheroes. These rules will lead to some truly epic super villains.

I'm tossing around giving my players access to some tier 1 abilities, but for the playtest at least I am going to assign abilities and flaws to them as opposed to this being another avenue to min/max something ridiculous.

my 2cp.

[Tirq]

I'm going to agree with Tormad. Maybe now the PCs will actually have a hard time against a 5v1 fight, and the allies will seem even stronger.

[danielc]

Tormad wrote:

I'm tossing around giving my players access to some tier 1 abilities, but for the playtest at least I am going to assign abilities and flaws to them as opposed to this being another avenue to min/max something ridiculous.

Why not just playtest it as written and then report back the real problem areas so they can be fixed/adjusted? Isn't that what a playtest is for?

[Orthos]

Quote:

If anything, this seems to me the opposite direction they should have taken. I personally would like to see a source book that deals with lower magic campaigns. A campaign where magic items are very very rare. A campaign where casters may not be able to cast as often or as reliably or only at a great personal cost.

This book/setting you suggest is to me what Mythic is to you. Different styles, different strokes, different preferences.

I like high magic, I like epic fantasy. I like a higher-powered game - I usually allow 3.5 stuff in my games in addition to PF, for the extra options and extra challenge. I like the new abilities for players and monsters alike, and I like the ability to slip it in at any level, rather than secluding it at the top end of the scale (a la 3.5's Epic) where not as many players get to make use of it.

I like almost all of the abilities listed available for players to choose from, and I like the level of customizability. Could these abilities have been implemented in the non-Mythic game, perhaps as feats? Maybe. A lot of them, however, would have been considered overpowered for normal game levels, while in a Mythic game that just by its name tells you to expect a higher threshold on both sides of the GM screen, they fly just fine.

In short, it's exactly what I've been looking for in my games for some time. It allows me to up the ante a little bit, with some fiddling it allows me to continue games past 20th, and it lets my players have the resources they need to keep up the pace and keep things interesting.

[Alaryth]

Low level characters are nothing like superheroes. Eather as a player or as DM, I want the characters to feels special; we have enough mundane around on the real world.
Besides... whats so horrible wrong with superheroes? Anytime I view a reference to them, seems like there are something absolutely wrong to them.

[Jason Bulmahn]

Mythic gives us the opportunity to have a different style of play, something that we find will help us tell a type of story that we otherwise could not tell without significant "spot" additions to the game. We of course realize that this style of play might not be for everyone, just like low magic, psionic, or epic, is not for everyone. By giving it a broad appeal, allowing it to be used at every level of play, as well as by keeping the theme well within what most would consider part of a fantasy setting, we are hoping to mitigate that limitation.

You may not agree, and thats fine. I think you will find that this book has something for you even if you dont necessarily let your players use it all the time, or even at all.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

[Inferon]

Thank you for the quick responces. As a DM, I have to agree that these rules could make for some great NPC's. I also thought soon after posting this that these rules could be used for a strictly post 20 game, much like old epic. Perhaps if my players ever make it there, I'll let them use these.

As to my superhero comment, I want to make clear that I do like many superheros. What I meant was, to me, the characters are already at that level, and I saw that any addition onto that was needles.

Also, thank you for the quick reply Mr. Bulmahn. I do notice that you sidestepped my qudestion, though :P

I'll probably end up picking this book up eventually anyway. Like or dislike, its too interesting to not pick up.

[KainPen]

I feel you in some ways Inferon, I see Mythic as a chance to make really good encounters by applying to Monsters and NPCS, To make these super hero type character actual have to give it there all. The beauty of Mythic is it is entire GM control system, You may only let you pcs get to teir 3, while your monsters can use any teir you want. You don't have to let the pc get any mythic teirs but have to deal with mythic creatures. things that where not threath anymore can be again. With out the creatures growing larger or applying class levels or advancing monster hit dice and so on ect.

Why because it going to be a great GM tool, you don't have to allow players it ablities but can be used against them.

There are still balancing that need to be done with this and we found things already that Jason said may need to be adjust, and new idea that can use to make the it better now is the time to do this and put your ideas in.

[Roberta Yang]

Without Mythic, you can't perform the greatest feats of mythological heroes, like being slightly harder to hit while drinking something.

[kevin_video]

Personally, when I looked over the playtest I felt nothing but boredom. I feel no satisfaction at all from this. Not even remotely. This is not something I was looking forward to seeing. If I want mythic stuff, I'll use the 3pp Godlings. I'm not looking for superheroes, or anything like that in my games. As such, I felt absolutely robbed that THIS was the book that Paizo decided to go "Let's bring back the Archmage." No. A thousand times, no. I felt less robbed by Red Goblin when they made the Archmage an epic prestige class. At least that I could understand. But for an official game only to allow Mythic archmages? That's not something I'm happy with. I almost fear how they're going to implement this with Pathfinder Society.

Thumb's down for me. Not buying this when it officially comes out, and my group's never going near it, despite the whining I'm sure I'll hear about it being the only "legal" way to become an archmage by my wizard players.

As Inferon said in the OP, and to paraphrase it, this is not my perfect idea of an RPG, but some people will find that it is. That's fine. I won't dispute that. You guys have fun. But you can count me out.

[Jason Bulmahn]

Well folks, I feel like we have stated our position on this, and rather than see this turn into the thread where folks just proclaim that they are not going to use Mythic and would prefer to see us do something different, I think I will close this one down.

We understand this will not be for everyone. We hope that in the future, you find our offerings more to your liking.

This thread is locked.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer