@Benly Dervish Dancer requires you not to have a weapon or shield in your off-hand.Bah, that's what I get for working from memory. Another point in favor of Crane Style then.
Happens to everyone comrade.
Also, (as I previously said) if only using Trip, Disarm, & Sunder they don't need Agile Maneuvers.
All that is well and good, but I think your main problem right now is skill selection.
1) Technically one of your traits is suppose to be a Campaign Trait. The GM obviously might have waived this requirement, not noticed, or does not actually know that.
2) How do you have a +3 climb? You should either have a +0 with no ranks or a +4 with 1 rank, not sure where those numbers came from.
3) Knowledge Planes? Really? Is there some sort of flavorful reason for this?
The first part of Skull and Shackles sort of is written to simulate the life of a new pirate, your character is very much not written that way in the skills department. I would at least throw a point into Intimidate next round, that would give you a +6. You have a decent Charisma, you might as well use it.
As I said in the OP, this character was hastily and "newbishly" put together - I am looking to ask the consent of my GM to make some skill changes, nothing groundbreaking so far, like some of the points that you made above ;) I'm hoping he will agree.
I don't think Piranha Strike will work for Rapiers even. Isn't it only for lights weapons? Rapier is 1 handed if I recall and Piranha Strike does nothing for "Finesse" weapons (unless of course they happen to be light).Correct, you are
EDIT: If you are looking at Trip, Disarm, & Sunder as your primary Maneuvers then you don't need Agile Maneuvers.
Ok, that makes my whole argument of Piranha kinda moot then. I could equate another weapon, etc, etc, but I don't want this to be abnout totally and uterly min/max - optimization yes, but to a degree. the character is created and I want to take it from there.
Krodjin, thank you for having pointed that one out ;)
So...
I'm looking at:
Lvl 1
Weapon focus - Rapier
Dodge
Weapon Finesse
Lvl 2
Dervish dance
Level 3
Weapon focus - Scimitar
Level 4
Weapon Specialization - Scimitar
Swap Weapon focus - Rapier with either Improved Unarmed Strike to go Crane way, or Agile Maneuvers right from the bat (maybe I don't need it right away since for the time being I can trip, disarm, etc. though getting a AoO to the face)
What say you guys?
In an hour or two I'll put things up more structured (like an idea from level 1 through.... 6 or something) - hope you guys will be around to give me your insight.
Level four you could get Combat Expertise and go to get Imp. Disarm/Trip.
I should be around in maybe 3.
I have Combat Expertise for free at level 2 from Lore Warden ;)
I have Combat Expertise for free at level 2 from Lore Warden ;)
I forgot about that!
I recommend swapping Weapon Focus(Rapier) for Imp. Disarm/Trip.
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Edeldhur, I hear you - I don't like to min/max as much as I like to try and recognize my characters potential. Sometimes how you get there is a big part of the fun.
Give your GM a heads up and maybe he can write something into the campaign to help your PC transition from Rapier to Scimitar.
Also, since Piranha Strike is out you may need to reconsider Power Attack if you still find you're lacking a flat bonus to damage that's multiplied on crits... One way to do that without raising your STR to 13 would be to dip 2 levels Ranger and select 2 hand style. Ranger fits your idea of lightly armored martial character and will also provide some nifty other benefits (+3 Reflex & Fort. Favoured Enemy or Rangers Focus depending on archetype for further static bonus to damage that gets multiplied).
Of course you also delay some Lore Warden class features which would hurt as well.
Anyhow, I'm just winging out ideas here. Disregard then if they don't fit your concept!
:)
Ok so first things first - as Timothy Hanson had said, the character was actually not correctly built - again, I was a complete newbie when I made him... He didn't EVEN have a campaign trait.....
So I reviewed him, and here follows:
Edeldhur
Human Fighter (Lore Warden) 1
CG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 11 (1d10+1)
Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +0
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Rapier +5 (1d6/18-20/x2)
Ranged Shortbow +4 (1d6/x3)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 15
Feats Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Rapier)
Traits Buccaneer's Blood, Captain's Blade (Acrobatics), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +4, Escape Artist +2, Fly +2, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Perform (dance) +3, Profession (sailor) +5, Ride +2, Stealth +2, Swim +3
Languages Common, Daemonic, Undercommon
Combat Gear Arrows (20), Rapier, Shortbow, Studded leather armor; Other Gear Flint and steel, Ink, black, Parchment (2), Signet ring, Waterskin
Ye well, actually, my GM gave out two traits + one campaign - he's a nice guy.
Additionally he's letting me change the character deeper, so here goes another update:
Edeldhur
Human Fighter (Lore Warden) 1
CG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 11 (1d10+1)
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +0
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Rapier +5 (1d6/18-20/x2) and
. . Scimitar +2 (1d6/18-20/x2)
Ranged Shortbow +5 (1d6/x3)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 11, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 16
Feats Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Traits Buccaneer's Blood, Captain's Blade (Acrobatics), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +8, Climb +4, Escape Artist +3, Fly +3, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Perform (dance) +2, Profession (sailor) +5, Ride +3, Stealth +3, Swim +3
Languages Common, Daemonic, Undercommon
Combat Gear Arrows (40), Rapier, Scimitar, Shortbow, Studded leather armor; Other Gear Flint and steel, Ink, black, Parchment (2), Signet ring, Waterskin
Can you tell me if you used a program for this stat block? It seems to me that a lot of the stats on Paizo look the same as you have posted, where do they come from?
Also it is a pity (as was pointed out by a Paizo staff member - James Jacobs IIRC) that the dex fighter, outside Dervish Dance, doesn't work. Such a pity :( So GL with your 'new improved' PC :D
And this would be the plan for:
Edeldhur
Human Fighter (Lore Warden) 2
CG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 18 (2d10+2)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +0
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Scimitar +7 (1d6+4/18-20/x2)
Ranged Shortbow +6 (1d6/x3)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 11, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +2; CMB +2; CMD 17
Feats Combat Expertise +/-1, Dervish Dance, Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Traits Buccaneer's Blood, Captain's Blade (Acrobatics), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +9, Climb +5, Escape Artist +3, Fly +3, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (local) +7, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perform (dance) +3, Profession (sailor) +6, Ride +3, Stealth +3, Swim +4
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Edeldhur
Human Fighter (Lore Warden) 4
CG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 32 (4d10+4)
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +1
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Scimitar +9 (1d6+4/18-20/x2)
Ranged Shortbow +8 (1d6/x3)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 11, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +4; CMB +10 (+12 Tripping); CMD 21 (23 vs. Trip)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Combat Expertise +/-2, Dervish Dance, Dodge, Improved Trip, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Traits Buccaneer's Blood, Captain's Blade (Acrobatics), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +12, Climb +8, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (local) +8, Knowledge (nature) +7, Knowledge (planes) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perform (dance) +3, Profession (sailor) +8, Swim +7
Languages Common, Daemonic, Undercommon
Combat Gear Arrows (40), Mithral shirt, Scimitar, Shortbow; Other Gear Flint and steel, Ink, black, Parchment (2), Signet ring, Waterskin
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Improved Trip You Trip at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Now, there are couple of things I am wondering about:
- Level 4 feat: Weapon Spec (Scimitar) or Improved Trip?
- Should I take any defensive feats?
- I was taking a further look at the Crane Feats, and they may seem essential for defensive purposes (although the Magus in my group is planning on going that Route]
- Is CMB [/b]+10 (+12 Tripping) good for level 4? Pardon for my inexperience...
@mach1.9pants:
The stat blocks are from Herolab
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You are looking pretty good so far.
I would go Improved Trip first, as it will give you the shine you want.
You seem to have some heavy hitters, so disabling the enemy, to allow big hitters to finish them off is a good path.
If you are going the trip path, then Combat Reflexes will allow you to get more out of it.
Maybe hold off on Agile Maneuvers and get Combat Reflexes.
Yeah I'm not going to lie I avoid looking at skills unless I am actually writing on a Character Sheet...
Something that might work is seeing about instead of Dervish Dance getting a Pathfinderized version of Improved Weapon Finesse(3.x feat). It allows you to use DEX for damage in place of STR on any Finesse weapon. This let's you keep the Rapier.
What's wrong with a Scimitar?
Just throwing out the option. As IWF would allow a larger weapon selection.
I was thinking this would give him all the light weapons and all Finesse weapons.
This way he could use a Elven Curved Blade, a rapier, etc.
Skill selection looks much better. I think some of your math is a little off and not entirely sure why you listed some things, but the core concept in that area is much clearer, and much more helpful.
For example Fly is dex based, and you have a +3 same with Ride. I assume they just sort of got listed, as it does not seem like you put in any skill points in either, which is good since you do not have a mount or wings. I might make a few different choices at level 4 but that is more a personal style thing. The choices you want to go with seem to be just fine as well.
I think the studded leather's armor check penalty if factored into the skills.
I think the studded leather's armor check penalty if factored into the skills.Skill selection looks much better. I think some of your math is a little off and not entirely sure why you listed some things, but the core concept in that area is much clearer, and much more helpful.
For example Fly is dex based, and you have a +3 same with Ride. I assume they just sort of got listed, as it does not seem like you put in any skill points in either, which is good since you do not have a mount or wings. I might make a few different choices at level 4 but that is more a personal style thing. The choices you want to go with seem to be just fine as well.
This seems to be correct.
What's wrong with a focus on one weapon?
No need to spread oneself thin.
Absolutely nothing is wrong with that.
I was thinking it would give the GM an easier time giving treasure.
It would also give him more options for weaponry to deal with DR and such.
What about defense guys? I will be rolling with Combat Expertise on lvl2 though the tax on the to-hit numbers doesn't seem very kind.
The Crane combat style seems good for this BUT, it's a looong way to go even as a Fighter. Assuming I start at level 6 with Crane Style and C. reflexes, Weapon spec at 8, Crane Wing coming in only at level 9, and the amazing Crane riposte only at 10...
So many options...
Boosting your Dex will up your AC.
Wear some Silken Ceremonial Armor, and never worry about max dex bonus.
Or a Haramaki. Or Bracers of Armour if you can afford it.
The next feat to think about is Piranha Strike. This is basically Power Attack, except that it's for finesse weapons. It gives you more damage which will help you pull your weight some.
Piranha strike is only for light weapons, not finesse weapons so no rapier or scimitar.
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The next feat to think about is Piranha Strike. This is basically Power Attack, except that it's for finesse weapons. It gives you more damage which will help you pull your weight some.Piranha strike is only for light weapons, not finesse weapons so no rapier or scimitar.
I keep saying that, but many choose to ignore it, and say Power Attack is the wrong feat for the build.
The next feat to think about is Piranha Strike. This is basically Power Attack, except that it's for finesse weapons. It gives you more damage which will help you pull your weight some.Piranha strike is only for light weapons, not finesse weapons so no rapier or scimitar.
Already been covered.
@AC question: Again So Many Options. Hmm Silken Ceremonial Armor, Amulet of Natural Armor, a Magic Tattoo of a Belt of DEX, and so on... I think I am in love with this concept...
Need anything else, comrade?
Surprisingly enough, after having agreed to all my changes on the character, my GM decided to accept Dervish Dance for not only Scimitar, but also Cutlass and Rapier :D I guess for now I'll just stick with the scimitar.
For the time being I guess I have a pretty good idea whher to go with him, and I am guessing that the crunch I posted above for levels 2 and 4 will be the one I will follow.
I left the door open for power attack, since my STR is at 11 (could go up to 13 with a +2str item eventually).
The silken ceremonial armor seems quite a decent choice, even flavor wise, but while I am still raising dex (at 18 right now), I will still have room to fit in maybe... a mithral chainmail?
Krodjin also makes a very good point - I should REALLY make some room for Iron Will...
And as blackbloodtroll said, if I go improved trip (still worried with some forum posts I saw flying around that it loses efficiency as levels raise... but I guess I can swap it right? ;)), I should really also consider Combat Reflexes <- this one with Crane Riposte seems to be = sweet, so I guess I'll see how the AP proceeds and take it from there.
Your feedback has been invaluable guys, thanks a lot - I am still working on the character but I have a much better view of some good options before me.
We are here to help.