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Apologies if this has been previously posted somewhere and I missed it.
I suspect the starting height and modifier for the Changeling race is a little... off. The description of the race suggests they are typically "tall and slender," yet 4'2" +2d4" doesn't quite fit that claim. What would/should the actual height be for a Changeling? I'm thinking 5'2" is likely more appropriate. Thoughts?
I don't think there's been an official errata, but what you say makes a lot of sense.
The problem is 4'10" (the maximum for changelings by the RAW) is not really "on the high side" by any definition of the word...
Making them between 5'4 and 5'10 (thereby assuming the 4 was a typo'd 5) fits the description better, even though human woman could still be taller.
That's my thinking. I mean, one would think they would at least be as tall as the average of a medium sized race and a hag would be. 4'10" just isn't quite there. I'm thinking it was a minor typo.
Additionally, the only other races to use a +2d4 height modifier are small races (the only exception being dwarves/duergar). My thoughts are at least a +2d6 is more appropriate.
I think the description of 'tall and thin' applies more to their overall appearance, as opposed to how they compare to other races.
At random heights of 4'4" to 4'10" and random weights of 95 - 125 lbs they're gonna look like girls waiting in line at The Club.
Although houseruling it up to 5' would further emphasize that and make them quite gauntly.
Ok, I went and calculated the BMI for these sizes and weights:
4'4 and 95 lbs = 1.32m and 43 kg = BMI of 24.7
4'10 and 125 lbs = 1.47 and 56 kg = BMI of 25.9
While neither of these BMI shouts "fat" it's at the edge of normal weight to overweight (which is at 25).
"Tall and slender" implies something different though.
If you assume it's a type and should be 5'4 to 5'10 the BMI would be between 16.4 and 17.7, which actually falls into the Underweight category already (not severly underweight yet though). More "tall and slender" in my opinion than the other one.
BMI ~ 17 is pretty slender (maybe even too slender), true. However, your use of BMI as an indicator inspired me to try out another example for comparison: The elf.
Now, I understand that another race's BMI isn't necessarily something we could guess at accurately (since we only know human BMI values), but it can still be useful as a comparison tool.
A female elf has a BMI that ranges from 15.5 (shortest) to 15.3 (tallest). So, even more underweight (in our terms) than our changeling with a 5'2" base height. In this respect, I suppose 5'2" +2d4 doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. :)
Yeeeah I just noticed this and was like WTF?!?
I really think this is an errata and would love to see it added to the list along with the planetouched aging.
Might be a good idea to mention this in the Inner Sea Races hardcover discussion thread and/or ask in the JJ thread if the shortness of Changelings is intentional. I gotta admit I never noticed this before I read this thread.
Actually I believe Changelings should not have a height/ weight chart at all as they emulate the race they are "replacing". As fast as I remember.
Well, you might be thinking of the 3.5 (was it Eberron?). Pathfinder changelings don't always replace like in the past (unless the mother chooses to do that...).
In Pathfinder, a changeling is the daughter of a hag (you pick which hag you are descended from, and get a special ability based on your mother's type) and are left with other races to raise them until they reach puberty (so as I said above, I'm sure the mother could if she wanted kidnap a baby (don't ask what the hag does with that baby) and leave hers in it's place, she doesn't have to)
Then, they get the 'call' of their mother and are compelled to seek her out. Those that do not, eventually she gives up and they stay changelings.
However, if the changeling DOES seek out her mother then the mother performs a ritual turning the daughter into a hag. There is no going back.
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I think what Haunted Jester was referring to is the line in the Changleing description that says they appear as a member of their fathers race.
So a hag/human changeling would use the human height/weight table. A hag/elf changeling would use the elf table. They should be on the high end of height and low end of weight of the respective tables.
I assume the default changeling is intended to be hag/human.
I think what Haunted Jester was referring to is the line in the Changleing description that says they appear as a member of their fathers race.
So a hag/human changeling would use the human height/weight table. A hag/elf changeling would use the elf table. They should be on the high end of height and low end of weight of the respective tables.
I assume the default changeling is intended to be hag/human.
OH, that line yeah I see what you mean... Actually that's kind of what I do anyway with the three changelings I made (well, one is actually the green hag mother, she just takes a 'changeling' form which is based upon her former self). One's a redhead, one's a brunette, and the 'mother' (this name in fact hehe) is a blonde. :P
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I would LOVE to see a Blood of... book that features changelings. Bastards of Golarion wasn't enough.
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Me too. I really like the mechanical and story potential of the pathfinder changeling.
Me too. I really like the mechanical and story potential of the pathfinder changeling.
Yeah, I originally made this character in White Wolf's Mage the Ascension. Her story was that she was the daughter of a very evil mage who was 'kidnapped' by her adoptive parents to protect her from turning out just like her mother. She developed a huge fangirl status for Gregory Maguire's Wicked, and would every year dress up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween. I even made her in City of Heroes and a 'wicked witch' outfit was one of her alternate costumes.
When I made her in Pathfinder, changeling was just perfect for her... green hag mother? Wicked Witch? Perfection!
Me too. I really like the mechanical and story potential of the pathfinder changeling.Yeah, I originally made this character in White Wolf's Mage the Ascension. Her story was that she was the daughter of a very evil mage who was 'kidnapped' by her adoptive parents to protect her from turning out just like her mother. She developed a huge fangirl status for Gregory Maguire's Wicked, and would every year dress up as the Wicked Witch of the West for Halloween. I even made her in City of Heroes and a 'wicked witch' outfit was one of her alternate costumes.
When I made her in Pathfinder, changeling was just perfect for her... green hag mother? Wicked Witch? Perfection!
I'll get you my pretty, and your little familiar too!
I just now stumbled across this thread while trying to find the answer to a slightly different question regarding changeling height. Mainly, how it is affected by the race of the father. After all, 4'4" to 4'10" would be tiny for an Elf, but freakishly tall for a Halfling.
Didn't really find the answer I was looking for, but the best house-rule I've been able to come up with for it could apply here:
Roll height and weight as for the race of the father, then add an additional height modifier. Say, 1d4 for Small races and 1d6 for Medium. Leave weight unmodified, for the 'slender' part.