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Any word on a Mythic Playtest?


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Paizo Employee Lead Designer

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Hey there Folks,

Looks like we've hit a few snags in getting this out on time. The document ended up being quite a bit larger than expected and it is going to take us a little longer to get it to you.

I was hoping to get it out this week, but since I am leaving the office for two weeks, going to Lucca Comics and Games in Italy, I am afraid I am going to have to delay the playtest until I get back.

My apologies to those that have been eagerly waiting for this. I promise that when you do get a chance to see it, it will be well worth the wait. I just want to make sure that I am here to answer all of your questions when this goes live.

Look for it the week of Novemeber 12th (not on the 12th, sometime that week).

Thanks again for hanging in there.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


*sends a platoon of kobold ninjas to steal the playtest document while Jason is away*


Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Look for it the week of Novemeber 12th (not on the 12th, sometime that week).

Thank you Jason for the update. It will drive us crazy I know but I also know you guys err on the side of quality so it is all good.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hey there Folks,

Looks like we've hit a few snags in getting this out on time. The document ended up being quite a bit larger than expected and it is going to take us a little longer to get it to you.

I was hoping to get it out this week, but since I am leaving the office for two weeks, going to Lucca Comics and Games in Italy, I am afraid I am going to have to delay the playtest until I get back.

My apologies to those that have been eagerly waiting for this. I promise that when you do get a chance to see it, it will be well worth the wait. I just want to make sure that I am here to answer all of your questions when this goes live.

Look for it the week of Novemeber 12th (not on the 12th, sometime that week).

Thanks again for hanging in there.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

While I appreciate the heads up so we aren't looking for it for the next two weeks, this kind of post would have been better served some time ago.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Will this not delay the release of the book (and by extension the release of the Ap it is tied to?)

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Peter Stewart wrote:
While I appreciate the heads up so we aren't looking for it for the next two weeks, this kind of post would have been better served some time ago.

Understandable and had we known earlier, we would have announced it earlier. This decision was made quite recently with some realities of timing setting in on the staff.

Sorry for leaving folks waiting.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Kevin Mack wrote:
Will this not delay the release of the book (and by extension the release of the Ap it is tied to?)

This delay will not affect the schedule of the book or the AP tied to it.

Jason

Grand Lodge

Thanks Jason! I am hoping to use the playtest while I take my players to the mysterious City-States of Iblydos! Heh heh... the timing is great! They still have a few weeks left in Magnimar! I am so looking forward to this!


I guess despite my impatience, this is probably a good thing. My players are new and this will give them more time to master the game so I can be sure I'm not going to overwhelm them.


Interesting to see that the Mythic rules will be supported out of the gate with an AP. *gleefully rubs his hands together*


Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Looks like we've hit a few snags in getting this out on time.

Good job with the damage control, a timetable more precise than "when it's done" is always good PR. :)

However, I would like to know what those snags are.


I think I'm a little late to the party. What is Mythic and where can I find more information about it? I can't seem to find anything about this on the paizo web site.


Shad0wdrag0n wrote:
I think I'm a little late to the party. What is Mythic and where can I find more information about it? I can't seem to find anything about this on the paizo web site.

Mythic is what they're calling the post-20th level rules set for Pathfinder. I believe that this was announced @ GenCon 2012 for release @ GenCon 2013.

Grand Lodge

Actually it is something that is applied any time. You can have mythic characters and adventures anywhere between 1st and 20th or beyond! Mythic and Epic are completely different!

It's like having the medusae and THE Medusa. It's kind of like applying a template to characters/creatures that take them well beyond the norm.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
AlgaeNymph wrote:
However, I would like to know what those snags are.

He did say in his post that the playtest was larger than they'd thought, and that he'd be out of the office for the next two weeks.


Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Will this not delay the release of the book (and by extension the release of the Ap it is tied to?)

This delay will not affect the schedule of the book or the AP tied to it.

Jason

So what we lose is one month or so from the playtest period -- no other conclusion is possible.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Will this not delay the release of the book (and by extension the release of the Ap it is tied to?)

This delay will not affect the schedule of the book or the AP tied to it.

Jason

So what we lose is one month or so from the playtest period -- no other conclusion is possible.

They might be able to pick up some slack in the development/rewrite phase and/or the editing/layout phase.


It's also possible (or rather, likely) that they had given themselves a bit of extra time between "expected-end-of-playtest" and "when-we-need-to-finalize-things" just in case the playtest got delayed. If so, then the delay won't necessarily affect the book's schedule.


Hama wrote:
The playtest is done...now they just need to edit it and make it look pretty. They care about us <sniff>

Am I the only one who read this as the playtest is done, aka finished and I missed it? Because I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then I read Jason's post and threw up a lot.

BTW Mythic is not post 20 rules; by all accounts you can start at lvl 1.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

ecw1701 wrote:
Am I the only one who read this as the playtest is done, aka finished and I missed it? Because I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

No, No.. you didn't miss it. :)


Cthulhudrew wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
However, I would like to know what those snags are.
He did say in his post that the playtest was larger than they'd thought, and that he'd be out of the office for the next two weeks.

If those were the snags then...I feel a little silly for asking, especially since he mentioned them right after he mentioned snags.

Nonetheless, I feel asking is warranted, just to make sure.


My mistake ... shakes his fist at the nat 1 that was rolled on picking up on what the Mythic rules are for Pathfinder.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
ecw1701 wrote:
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then I read Jason's post and threw up a lot.

What the hell? What is there to "throw up" about?


Zaister wrote:
ecw1701 wrote:
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then I read Jason's post and threw up a lot.
What the hell? What is there to "throw up" about?

Having to wait 2 more weeks, and consequently having to rearrange my group's campaign and scheduled game time again, since we've been already been waiting for almost a month.

I'll live, and I'm sure the playtest will be great when it gets here. It's just a drag, is all.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

David knott 242 wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Will this not delay the release of the book (and by extension the release of the Ap it is tied to?)

This delay will not affect the schedule of the book or the AP tied to it.

Jason

So what we lose is one month or so from the playtest period -- no other conclusion is possible.

What it really means is that implementation of playtester feedback will extend further into the book's development phase than originally intended. It should not truncate the playtest period at all.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
ecw1701 wrote:
Zaister wrote:
ecw1701 wrote:
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then I read Jason's post and threw up a lot.
What the hell? What is there to "throw up" about?

Having to wait 2 more weeks, and consequently having to rearrange my group's campaign and scheduled game time again, since we've been already been waiting for almost a month.

I'll live, and I'm sure the playtest will be great when it gets here. It's just a drag, is all.

Sorry, but to me your choice of word feels disrespectful to Jason and Paizo. This sense of customer entitlement these days drives me crazy. It's not like Paizo committed to a certain date here, it's not even a product. And if your whole game is hung up on this, maybe you're doing something wrong. Sorry, but I had to say that.

Silver Crusade

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Customer entitlement for free stuff is very funny.


Are wrote:

It's also possible (or rather, likely) that they had given themselves a bit of extra time between "expected-end-of-playtest" and "when-we-need-to-finalize-things" just in case the playtest got delayed. If so, then the delay won't necessarily affect the book's schedule.

The problem is that "expected-end-of-playtest" is a soft deadline and only applies if few or no serious problems are noted during the playtest. "When-we-need-to-finalize-things", however, is a hard deadline if you have a fixed date on which you need to get the product out. Since it is always wise to be pessimistic about the state of material that you are putting out for playtesting, a precious month in which things could get fixed has been lost. Whether that month will matter or not remains to be seen.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Guys, Jason is a big boy, and he can take the criticism. It's natural for folks who were hoping to have this sooner to be disappointed. We'll get it out as soon as we can, and it will be awesome.

Pathfinder Rules Conversion, Frog God Games

Erik Mona wrote:
Guys, Jason is a big boy, and he can take the criticism. It's natural for folks who were hoping to have this sooner to be disappointed. We'll get it out as soon as we can, and it will be awesome.

^

^
^
^
The Voice of reason in a sea of Chaos.

Good luck with that, Erik! lol


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Erik Mona wrote:
Guys, Jason is a big boy

That much is certainly true.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Hey there folks,

Sorry to disappoint on this one a bit. We ran a bit behind when we made the decision to expand the size of the document. That caused it to run into my schedule trip to Italy for Lucca Comics and Games. As the one behind these rules, we felt it was important that I be here and available during the playtest so that I could answer questions and gather feedback. This means that the playtest will be going on while we develop the book, but thats not really that big of a problem on our end. Everyone will still get the full amount of time to playtest.

And yes.. I am a big boy. I can take some criticism. No worries.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Just remember to not fall into the big hole to the underworld while you're there, Jason.

Andoran

Well in some ways this bites, as the campaign I could playtest this in ends Friday.

But take the time you need to get it done right, and then I can roll up some level 17 characters with 7 mythic tiers and see if Fafinhir can be taken down by a pair of bersakers...

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

The take-away for me is that we'll be getting a bigger playtest document, which likely means more toys to play with, more stuff to try to break, and more options. I'm disappointed too, but in this case bigger is probably better.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.

We don't require you to playtest these rules as part of an ongoing campaign. In fact... I think that's a limitation, because playtesting is somewhat destructive to ongoing campaigns.

AKA: I'd rather folks who playtest for us NOT do so as part of a currently established game. What I personally am looking for from this playtest is how the rules play for all levels and all tiers... but PARTICULARLY how the mythic rules work for really high level characters.

I'm developing a Mythic Adventure Path... and the more playtest feedback I can get on how it is playing 15th and higher level characters of tier 5 or higher, the better!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thank you for keeping us in the loop.
And I reiterate my previous point that while the delay is unfortunate, I'm sure the playtest will be awesome when it arrives.
A late product is only late until it arrives; a bad product is bad forever.
Have a safe and enjoyable trip!


13 people marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Gandalf wrote:
“A Pathfinder book is never late, nor is it early, it arrives precisely when it is meant to.”

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:
Interesting to see that the Mythic rules will be supported out of the gate with an AP. *gleefully rubs his hands together*

Paizo tends to do a lot of coordinating with their releases. Shackles came out with a Pirate supplement, the last AP coincided with the Magnimar book. So more than likely they were holding back on developing Mythic until they could plan an AP to release with it.


Question for playtesting preparation purposes: If we want to do a high-level playtest, as James has suggested that feedback from Lv15+/E5+ will provide the most useful information, can we go ahead and build those PCs, NPCs, and monsters now and then add on the epic tiers once the playtest is released, or is the Mythic system designed so that we will have to generate stats for characters and creatures all at once? The more prep I can do in advance of release, the quicker I can provide meaningful feedback!

Cheliax

Power Word Unzip wrote:
Question for playtesting preparation purposes: If we want to do a high-level playtest, as James has suggested that feedback from Lv15+/E5+ will provide the most useful information, can we go ahead and build those PCs, NPCs, and monsters now and then add on the epic tiers once the playtest is released, or is the Mythic system designed so that we will have to generate stats for characters and creatures all at once? The more prep I can do in advance of release, the quicker I can provide meaningful feedback!

That is a good question. While I don't know the answer to that for sure, I'd imagine the playtest will easily allow you too add to any character. Especially sense they said that you can add mythic and take it away at anytime. Heck an item can give a character mythic powers. So yes, go ahead and pre-build your characters. I am.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'll be adding mythic tiers to characters in an ongoing campaign, one which I designed from scratch for the express purpose of playtesting the mythic rules.

The first stage of the campaign portrays actual events in the lives of the PCs. A party of four PCs are run through a story arc that advances them from 2nd level to 12th level. The equipment and prepared spells the PCs have available at the start of each day are recorded.

The second stage of the campaign portrays legends in which the actual deeds of the PCs are increasingly exaggerated. The same party is run through the same story arc a second time, having the same equipment and prepared spells at the start of each day. This time, each PC has one mythic tier per two class levels, and the ECL of each encounter is increased by one-half the party's average class level (often by replacing monsters with similar creatures of higher CR).

By following this scheme, I intend to compare the performance of identically-equipped mythic and non-mythic PCs in numerous encounters scaled to match their respective character levels. Specifically, my playtest will look at PCs of class level 2nd through class level 12th, using mostly core- and mythic-only character options.

Since we have a few weeks before the mythic rules are released, other folks on the boards probably have time to set up and run campaigns that are similar to (if a bit shorter than) this one, should they be so inclined. Similar campaigns could compare the performance of mythic and non-mythic characters of many different levels and builds.


James Jacobs wrote:

We don't require you to playtest these rules as part of an ongoing campaign. In fact... I think that's a limitation, because playtesting is somewhat destructive to ongoing campaigns.

AKA: I'd rather folks who playtest for us NOT do so as part of a currently established game. What I personally am looking for from this playtest is how the rules play for all levels and all tiers... but PARTICULARLY how the mythic rules work for really high level characters.

I'm developing a Mythic Adventure Path... and the more playtest feedback I can get on how it is playing 15th and higher level characters of tier 5 or higher, the better!

15th level+ @ tier 5+ ... gotcha! ^____^

Paizo Employee Creative Director

LazarX wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Interesting to see that the Mythic rules will be supported out of the gate with an AP. *gleefully rubs his hands together*
Paizo tends to do a lot of coordinating with their releases. Shackles came out with a Pirate supplement, the last AP coincided with the Magnimar book. So more than likely they were holding back on developing Mythic until they could plan an AP to release with it.

More or less the exact opposite. We were holding back the Worldwound AP until we could get Mythic on the schedule.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

DragonBringerX wrote:
Power Word Unzip wrote:
Question for playtesting preparation purposes: If we want to do a high-level playtest, as James has suggested that feedback from Lv15+/E5+ will provide the most useful information, can we go ahead and build those PCs, NPCs, and monsters now and then add on the epic tiers once the playtest is released, or is the Mythic system designed so that we will have to generate stats for characters and creatures all at once? The more prep I can do in advance of release, the quicker I can provide meaningful feedback!
That is a good question. While I don't know the answer to that for sure, I'd imagine the playtest will easily allow you too add to any character. Especially sense they said that you can add mythic and take it away at anytime. Heck an item can give a character mythic powers. So yes, go ahead and pre-build your characters. I am.

While there won't be any prebuilt PCs... there'll be a fair number of mythic monsters to play with.

I'm particularly interested, though, to see how mythic characters handle non-mythic monsters that are well above what you'd think they'd be able to handle. Like throwing two balors and four mariliths at a party of 16th level characters with tier 6 mythic powers. And then tier 4. And then tier 10. And then 18th level 2 tier. And so on and so on.


Just to be clear: When you say 15th-level with tier 5, do you mean "10 class levels and 5 tiers", or "15 class levels and 5 tiers"?

Question edited for clarity.


This Tier talk is making me think I need to scour the boards for some information on what it is to be Mythic...


James Jacobs wrote:
While there won't be any prebuilt PCs... there'll be a fair number of mythic monsters to play with.

I hope that one of the CR 35 examples in the playtest will be Cthulu. Seeing a dozen or more playtest topics detailing that fight would be incredibly amusing ;)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Customer entitlement for free stuff is very funny.

Laughing at people who mock other people for being able to feel emotions like disappointment is amusing.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Are wrote:

Just to be clear: When you say 15th-level with tier 5, do you mean "10 class levels and 5 tiers", or "15 class levels and 5 tiers"?

Question edited for clarity.

I mean 15 class levels and 5 tiers. But I'm also interested to find out how a character with 10 class levels and 5 tiers does against a CR 22 encounter. And all the possible variations in between and to either side.

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