Jason Bulmahn Director of Game Design |
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Hey there Folks,
Looks like we've hit a few snags in getting this out on time. The document ended up being quite a bit larger than expected and it is going to take us a little longer to get it to you.
I was hoping to get it out this week, but since I am leaving the office for two weeks, going to Lucca Comics and Games in Italy, I am afraid I am going to have to delay the playtest until I get back.
My apologies to those that have been eagerly waiting for this. I promise that when you do get a chance to see it, it will be well worth the wait. I just want to make sure that I am here to answer all of your questions when this goes live.
Look for it the week of Novemeber 12th (not on the 12th, sometime that week).
Thanks again for hanging in there.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Peter Stewart |
Hey there Folks,
Looks like we've hit a few snags in getting this out on time. The document ended up being quite a bit larger than expected and it is going to take us a little longer to get it to you.
I was hoping to get it out this week, but since I am leaving the office for two weeks, going to Lucca Comics and Games in Italy, I am afraid I am going to have to delay the playtest until I get back.
My apologies to those that have been eagerly waiting for this. I promise that when you do get a chance to see it, it will be well worth the wait. I just want to make sure that I am here to answer all of your questions when this goes live.
Look for it the week of Novemeber 12th (not on the 12th, sometime that week).
Thanks again for hanging in there.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
While I appreciate the heads up so we aren't looking for it for the next two weeks, this kind of post would have been better served some time ago.
Jason Bulmahn Director of Game Design |
While I appreciate the heads up so we aren't looking for it for the next two weeks, this kind of post would have been better served some time ago.
Understandable and had we known earlier, we would have announced it earlier. This decision was made quite recently with some realities of timing setting in on the staff.
Sorry for leaving folks waiting.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Jason Bulmahn Director of Game Design |
Turin the Mad |
I think I'm a little late to the party. What is Mythic and where can I find more information about it? I can't seem to find anything about this on the paizo web site.
Mythic is what they're calling the post-20th level rules set for Pathfinder. I believe that this was announced @ GenCon 2012 for release @ GenCon 2013.
Aeshuura |
Actually it is something that is applied any time. You can have mythic characters and adventures anywhere between 1st and 20th or beyond! Mythic and Epic are completely different!
It's like having the medusae and THE Medusa. It's kind of like applying a template to characters/creatures that take them well beyond the norm.
David knott 242 |
Kevin Mack wrote:Will this not delay the release of the book (and by extension the release of the Ap it is tied to?)This delay will not affect the schedule of the book or the AP tied to it.
Jason
So what we lose is one month or so from the playtest period -- no other conclusion is possible.
Steve Geddes |
Jason Bulmahn wrote:Kevin Mack wrote:Will this not delay the release of the book (and by extension the release of the Ap it is tied to?)This delay will not affect the schedule of the book or the AP tied to it.
Jason
So what we lose is one month or so from the playtest period -- no other conclusion is possible.
They might be able to pick up some slack in the development/rewrite phase and/or the editing/layout phase.
ecw1701 |
The playtest is done...now they just need to edit it and make it look pretty. They care about us <sniff>
Am I the only one who read this as the playtest is done, aka finished and I missed it? Because I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then I read Jason's post and threw up a lot.
BTW Mythic is not post 20 rules; by all accounts you can start at lvl 1.
Jim Groves Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4 |
AlgaeNymph |
AlgaeNymph wrote:However, I would like to know what those snags are.He did say in his post that the playtest was larger than they'd thought, and that he'd be out of the office for the next two weeks.
If those were the snags then...I feel a little silly for asking, especially since he mentioned them right after he mentioned snags.
Nonetheless, I feel asking is warranted, just to make sure.
ecw1701 |
ecw1701 wrote:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then I read Jason's post and threw up a lot.What the hell? What is there to "throw up" about?
Having to wait 2 more weeks, and consequently having to rearrange my group's campaign and scheduled game time again, since we've been already been waiting for almost a month.
I'll live, and I'm sure the playtest will be great when it gets here. It's just a drag, is all.
Erik Mona Publisher, Chief Creative Officer |
Jason Bulmahn wrote:Kevin Mack wrote:Will this not delay the release of the book (and by extension the release of the Ap it is tied to?)This delay will not affect the schedule of the book or the AP tied to it.
Jason
So what we lose is one month or so from the playtest period -- no other conclusion is possible.
What it really means is that implementation of playtester feedback will extend further into the book's development phase than originally intended. It should not truncate the playtest period at all.
Zaister |
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Zaister wrote:ecw1701 wrote:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then I read Jason's post and threw up a lot.What the hell? What is there to "throw up" about?Having to wait 2 more weeks, and consequently having to rearrange my group's campaign and scheduled game time again, since we've been already been waiting for almost a month.
I'll live, and I'm sure the playtest will be great when it gets here. It's just a drag, is all.
Sorry, but to me your choice of word feels disrespectful to Jason and Paizo. This sense of customer entitlement these days drives me crazy. It's not like Paizo committed to a certain date here, it's not even a product. And if your whole game is hung up on this, maybe you're doing something wrong. Sorry, but I had to say that.
David knott 242 |
It's also possible (or rather, likely) that they had given themselves a bit of extra time between "expected-end-of-playtest" and "when-we-need-to-finalize-things" just in case the playtest got delayed. If so, then the delay won't necessarily affect the book's schedule.
The problem is that "expected-end-of-playtest" is a soft deadline and only applies if few or no serious problems are noted during the playtest. "When-we-need-to-finalize-things", however, is a hard deadline if you have a fixed date on which you need to get the product out. Since it is always wise to be pessimistic about the state of material that you are putting out for playtesting, a precious month in which things could get fixed has been lost. Whether that month will matter or not remains to be seen.
Erik Mona Publisher, Chief Creative Officer |
Skeeter Green Pathfinder Rules Conversion, Frog God Games |
Jason Bulmahn Lead Designer |
Hey there folks,
Sorry to disappoint on this one a bit. We ran a bit behind when we made the decision to expand the size of the document. That caused it to run into my schedule trip to Italy for Lucca Comics and Games. As the one behind these rules, we felt it was important that I be here and available during the playtest so that I could answer questions and gather feedback. This means that the playtest will be going on while we develop the book, but thats not really that big of a problem on our end. Everyone will still get the full amount of time to playtest.
And yes.. I am a big boy. I can take some criticism. No worries.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Joe Wells RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
James Jacobs Creative Director |
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We don't require you to playtest these rules as part of an ongoing campaign. In fact... I think that's a limitation, because playtesting is somewhat destructive to ongoing campaigns.
AKA: I'd rather folks who playtest for us NOT do so as part of a currently established game. What I personally am looking for from this playtest is how the rules play for all levels and all tiers... but PARTICULARLY how the mythic rules work for really high level characters.
I'm developing a Mythic Adventure Path... and the more playtest feedback I can get on how it is playing 15th and higher level characters of tier 5 or higher, the better!
LazarX |
Interesting to see that the Mythic rules will be supported out of the gate with an AP. *gleefully rubs his hands together*
Paizo tends to do a lot of coordinating with their releases. Shackles came out with a Pirate supplement, the last AP coincided with the Magnimar book. So more than likely they were holding back on developing Mythic until they could plan an AP to release with it.
Power Word Unzip |
Question for playtesting preparation purposes: If we want to do a high-level playtest, as James has suggested that feedback from Lv15+/E5+ will provide the most useful information, can we go ahead and build those PCs, NPCs, and monsters now and then add on the epic tiers once the playtest is released, or is the Mythic system designed so that we will have to generate stats for characters and creatures all at once? The more prep I can do in advance of release, the quicker I can provide meaningful feedback!
DragonBringerX |
Question for playtesting preparation purposes: If we want to do a high-level playtest, as James has suggested that feedback from Lv15+/E5+ will provide the most useful information, can we go ahead and build those PCs, NPCs, and monsters now and then add on the epic tiers once the playtest is released, or is the Mythic system designed so that we will have to generate stats for characters and creatures all at once? The more prep I can do in advance of release, the quicker I can provide meaningful feedback!
That is a good question. While I don't know the answer to that for sure, I'd imagine the playtest will easily allow you too add to any character. Especially sense they said that you can add mythic and take it away at anytime. Heck an item can give a character mythic powers. So yes, go ahead and pre-build your characters. I am.
Epic Meepo RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 |
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I'll be adding mythic tiers to characters in an ongoing campaign, one which I designed from scratch for the express purpose of playtesting the mythic rules.
The first stage of the campaign portrays actual events in the lives of the PCs. A party of four PCs are run through a story arc that advances them from 2nd level to 12th level. The equipment and prepared spells the PCs have available at the start of each day are recorded.
The second stage of the campaign portrays legends in which the actual deeds of the PCs are increasingly exaggerated. The same party is run through the same story arc a second time, having the same equipment and prepared spells at the start of each day. This time, each PC has one mythic tier per two class levels, and the ECL of each encounter is increased by one-half the party's average class level (often by replacing monsters with similar creatures of higher CR).
By following this scheme, I intend to compare the performance of identically-equipped mythic and non-mythic PCs in numerous encounters scaled to match their respective character levels. Specifically, my playtest will look at PCs of class level 2nd through class level 12th, using mostly core- and mythic-only character options.
Since we have a few weeks before the mythic rules are released, other folks on the boards probably have time to set up and run campaigns that are similar to (if a bit shorter than) this one, should they be so inclined. Similar campaigns could compare the performance of mythic and non-mythic characters of many different levels and builds.
Turin the Mad |
We don't require you to playtest these rules as part of an ongoing campaign. In fact... I think that's a limitation, because playtesting is somewhat destructive to ongoing campaigns.
AKA: I'd rather folks who playtest for us NOT do so as part of a currently established game. What I personally am looking for from this playtest is how the rules play for all levels and all tiers... but PARTICULARLY how the mythic rules work for really high level characters.
I'm developing a Mythic Adventure Path... and the more playtest feedback I can get on how it is playing 15th and higher level characters of tier 5 or higher, the better!
15th level+ @ tier 5+ ... gotcha! ^____^
James Jacobs Creative Director |
Turin the Mad wrote:Interesting to see that the Mythic rules will be supported out of the gate with an AP. *gleefully rubs his hands together*Paizo tends to do a lot of coordinating with their releases. Shackles came out with a Pirate supplement, the last AP coincided with the Magnimar book. So more than likely they were holding back on developing Mythic until they could plan an AP to release with it.
More or less the exact opposite. We were holding back the Worldwound AP until we could get Mythic on the schedule.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
Power Word Unzip wrote:Question for playtesting preparation purposes: If we want to do a high-level playtest, as James has suggested that feedback from Lv15+/E5+ will provide the most useful information, can we go ahead and build those PCs, NPCs, and monsters now and then add on the epic tiers once the playtest is released, or is the Mythic system designed so that we will have to generate stats for characters and creatures all at once? The more prep I can do in advance of release, the quicker I can provide meaningful feedback!That is a good question. While I don't know the answer to that for sure, I'd imagine the playtest will easily allow you too add to any character. Especially sense they said that you can add mythic and take it away at anytime. Heck an item can give a character mythic powers. So yes, go ahead and pre-build your characters. I am.
While there won't be any prebuilt PCs... there'll be a fair number of mythic monsters to play with.
I'm particularly interested, though, to see how mythic characters handle non-mythic monsters that are well above what you'd think they'd be able to handle. Like throwing two balors and four mariliths at a party of 16th level characters with tier 6 mythic powers. And then tier 4. And then tier 10. And then 18th level 2 tier. And so on and so on.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
Just to be clear: When you say 15th-level with tier 5, do you mean "10 class levels and 5 tiers", or "15 class levels and 5 tiers"?
Question edited for clarity.
I mean 15 class levels and 5 tiers. But I'm also interested to find out how a character with 10 class levels and 5 tiers does against a CR 22 encounter. And all the possible variations in between and to either side.