Mage Armor = +4 Armor Bonus+5 Padded Armor = +1 Armor +5 Enhancement
For a total of +9 AC. Is that correct?
No. +5 padded armor already has a +5 enhancement bonus, or a +6 AC bonus total.
Mage Armor of +4 overrides the +1 from Padded and then you have the +5 enhancement for an AC of 9. Do any of you have Herolab? Just run the numbers there and you will see who is right. (Fix) +4 Mage Armor or +6 Padded is the option.
Would a +4 Enhancement Bonus from Bull Strength Stack with a +2 Inherent Bonus to Strength since they are both increasing Strength, then? Or no?Yes, they stack. They are different bonus types applied to the same thing (your strength score).
That has nothing to do with this thread though. Enhancement bonuses are never added directly into your AC, they always increase a suit of armors armor bonus, or a shields shield bonus.
Right, and it have everything to do with this thread. The Inherent Bonus adds directly to Strength and the Enhancement Bonus "increases" it, as you have worded above.
Mage Armor of +4 overrides the +1 from Padded and then you have the +5 enhancement for an AC of 9. Do any of you have Herolab? Just run the numbers there and you will see who is right.
If that is what Herolabs says, then it is wrong.
Right, and it have everything to do with this thread. The Inherent Bonus adds directly to Strength and the Enhancement Bonus "increases" it, as you have worded above.
No. Armor bonuses are added directly into your AC. Enhancement bonuses never are. Enhancement bonuses (to armor) always increase the armor bonus an item grants.
+5 full plate grants you a +14 armor bonus to your AC. It does not grant a +9 armor bonus, and a +5 enhancement bonus to your AC. Every single monster in the Bestiaries that has magical armor agrees with that. (Check the Solar angel, for example.)
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Mage Armor of +4 overrides the +1 from Padded and then you have the +5 enhancement for an AC of 9. Do any of you have Herolab? Just run the numbers there and you will see who is right.Armor Bonus and Enhancement Bonus are fundamentally different bonuses and, thus, stack...
Mage Armor = +4 Armor Bonus
+5 Padded Armor = +1 Armor +5 Enhancement
For a total of +9 AC. Is that correct?
No. +5 padded armor already has a +5 enhancement bonus, or a +6 AC bonus total.
Herolabs can be, and has been in the past has been, wrong.
p.s. please fix your post, you didn't close a /quote properly.
Mage Armor of +4 overrides the +1 from Padded and then you have the +5 enhancement for an AC of 9. Do any of you have Herolab? Just run the numbers there and you will see who is right.If that is what Herolabs says, then it is wrong.
Wait, no, I was talking about using Herolab to try out the Ablative Armor/Enhancement thing.
Yeah, Mage Armor and the Magic Padded are two different Armors so you either get the +4 or the +6.
Would a +4 Enhancement Bonus from Bull Strength Stack with a +2 Inherent Bonus to Strength since they are both increasing Strength, then? Or no?
Yes. A +2 enhancement bonus to Strength stacks with a +2 inherent bonus to strength.
Now, on to this situation.
Magic Vestment doesn't grant a bonus to AC.
I want to say this again, to make sure you caught it.
Magic Vestment doesn't grant a bonus to AC.
And one more time, because this is the key element in this whole discussion.
Magic Vestment doesn't grant a bonus to AC.
Is that clear enough?
Your armor grants an armor bonus to AC.
Magic Vestment provides an enhancement bonus to your armor.
Thus, when you use Magic Vestment on your armor, it grants a higher armor bonus than it did before, just as the enhancement bonus on magic armor does.
At no point does Magic Vestment directly affect your AC. What Magic Vestment (or a permanent +1 enchantment on armor) does is grant a bonus to your armor. So in the end, your AC increases because your armor bonus increases.
Are we saying that Ablative Armor doesn't work on Magic Armor? What happens when you cast Ablative Armor on the +5 Padded Armor? Is the AC adjustment a +6 or +8?
Wow. Didn't expect this to keep going after I switched my vote, so here's my argument against this combo stacking:
Ablative Barrier is a spell with it's own armor bonus, it does not increase the armor bonus of the clothes.
Magic Vestment is an enhancement bonus to the armor bonus of the clothes. Effectively increasing the armor bonus of the clothes.
You cant cast Magic Vestment onto the ablative barrier spell. Therefore, you take whichever armor bonus is higher after figuring them separately.
Clear as mud?
Are we saying that Ablative Armor doesn't work on Magic Armor? What happens when you cast Ablative Armor on the +5 Padded Armor? Is the AC adjustment a +6 or +8?
You don't cast ablative barrier on a set of armor. Treat the spell as if it is it's a magical set of armor, then figure the total AC bonus. In this case the +5 padded leather trumps the spells bonus. for a +6 AC
*edit - changed ablative armor to say ablative barrier
Are we saying that Ablative Armor doesn't work on Magic Armor? What happens when you cast Ablative Armor on the +5 Padded Armor? Is the AC adjustment a +6 or +8?
You can not cast Ablative Barrier on a suit of armor. It must be cast on a creature.
Ablative barrier grants you a +2 armor bonus to your AC. If you are already wearing a suit of +5 padded armor (for a total armor bonus of +6), then the Ablative Barrier grants you no armor bonus at all.
Okay, ask yourself this:
What does providing an enhancement bonus to a suit of armor or shield do?
Does it improve your armor or shield?
How does it do that?
What does armor or shield do for you?
In what way would improving your armor or shield benefit you?
I think that is going beyond what the creators intended but I'll bite. I'd have to say an Armor Bonus may describe how robust a certain piece of armor is, such as Chain Shirt vs. Full Plate and an Enhancement Bonus would describe the quality or "ease of use under conditions" of that certain piece of armor.
So a very high quality chain shirt might approach the benefits provided by a stock suit of Full Plate, for example.
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"Ablative armor" does not exist. Ablative Barrier does, and provides an armor bonus, just like the Mage Armor spell.
Magic Vestment improves Armor and Shields, by giving them an enhancement bonus, thus increases the armor or shield bonus they provide.
Magic Vestment treats clothing as if it were an armor with a +0 armor bonus.
Ablative Barrier does not stack with armor.
Are we saying that Ablative Armor doesn't work on Magic Armor? What happens when you cast Ablative Armor on the +5 Padded Armor? Is the AC adjustment a +6 or +8?
No they don't stack. Armor bonuses don't stack.
Read the spell. It grants an Armor bonus to the target (a creature).
Magic Vestment provides an Enhancement bonus to Armor (like the equipment).
Enhancement bonuses increase the armor bonus of the affected item. (A +5 Enhancement bonus on Padded Armor provides +6 armor.
So since armor bonuses don't stack you take the higher bonus. Okay?
If you enchant your shield its an Enhancement bonus.
If you enchant your Armor its an Enhancement bonus.
Both of these WILL effect your AC because they are not directly effecting your AC. One is Enhancing the Armor, the other is Enhancing the Shield.
Mr.Damage by your account these would not work cause you claim the enhancement bonus is effecting you. Its not. Ablative Barrier gives an armor bonus. The Clothes (with Magic Vestment) also give and armor bonus. You take the higher bonus.
this question has been asked before in regards to whether or not mage armor can stack with magic vestment. However, after reading those threads, i still was unable to find a definitive answer. Therefore, I shall ask this question...
Lets say I use Magic Vestment to give me a +5 'enhancement bonus' to my clothes (which the magic vestment clearly indicates as a legal target).
Therefore I now have [Clothes = AC 0 + 5 'enhancement bonus' from magic vestment]
Now, I then cast Ablative barrier, which gives me a +2 'armor bonus' to my AC.
By my understanding, this SHOULD give me an AC of 7 [0 from clothes, 5 from enhancement, and 2 from ablative barrier]
None of these bonuses overlap (one is an enhancement bonus, the other is an armor bonus), so this would lead me to assume that the AC is correct.
If my assumption is wrong, can someone explain why? Thanks again for the help :)
An enhancement bonus improves something, it isn't a stand alone bonus.
You should have cast Magic Vestment on Ablative Barrier not on your clothes.
MV on Clothes is +5 AC.
MV on Ablative Barrier is +7.
Ablative Barrier is not armor, a shield, or clothes.
And if we start letting spells be cast onto spells in order to enhance that spell, then we all die a little inside :)
Not to mention Ablative Barrier is an invisible force subject to miss chance :)
Nothing to see here, move along....
Wow....lots of discussion *jaw drops*
Well, I think my previous post about how 'enhancement bonuses' are converted into the actual 'armor bonus' pretty much satisified me.
However, I do have a second question *cringes*
Is it possible to enchant clothing (lets say, Monk's Robe, example)?
Also, would clothing 'technically' count as light armor (my guess is no, but hey, just figured I'd ask).
Is it possible to enchant clothing (lets say, Monk's Robe, example)?
Also, would clothing 'technically' count as light armor (my guess is no, but hey, just figured I'd ask).
No. Remember that monks loose their abilities while wearing armor. If clothes were armor, monks would have to run around naked to get their class features.
Also remember that armor or weapons must be masterwork to be enchanted. So if clothes were considered armor, they would have to be masterwork clothes to be enchanted.
That being said, there are a few items that do function similiar to armor, such as Robe of the Archmagi. Note that even though it provides an armor bonus, it is not armor. It has no arcane spell failure and no armor check penalty, and (probably) can't be enchanted with armor special abilities.
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wow. Im amazed at the patience of some of you.
Yeah, but eventually patience wears thin. I really REALLY hate it when someone reads the title of a thread, ignores the ENTIRETY of what has been posted since then, and asks a question that has subsequently been answered. And this has happened like FIFTY FREAKING TIMES in this thread.
Please PLEASE for all of our sanity's sakes, PLEASE read the thread before you post.