Hello fellow RPG players!
I am trying to find a way to build my strength based magus before my initial game on friday. I am simply going to list my general plans for my characters general progression through its levels and give a little explanation into what I was thinking when I chose certain feats. Please feel free to give me as many suggestions and advice as possible. Please note that I am not interested in switching to a dex based Magus that uses Dervish Dance and a scimitar.
First off I am a human for the extra feat as well as other reasons that pertain to my characters backstory. Our DM also gave us 1 extra feat to work with. Meaning, as a lvl 1 Human Magus, I have 3 feats.
For my stats it was a 30 point buy system. My DM is planning on having quite a few epic battles and asked us to trust him with this high amount of points. I bought a 16,16,14,14,10,10 to have a decent spread of my abilities without having a negative stats. I assigned them like this.
STR: 18(+4) (+2 from racial bonus)
DEX: 14(+2)
CON: 14(+2)
INT: 16(+3)
WIS: 10(+0)
CHA: 10(+0)
Our DM allowed us 2 starting traits. So I chose these:
-Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)
-Adopted (Dwarf)(Darkvision)
I am considering replacing adopting with something a little more effective, I just cant seem to think of anything at the moment.
FEATS:(Not sure about any of my lvl 1 feats, suggestions are welcome)
lvl 1)Improved Initiative, Dodge, Combat Reflexes
lvl 3)Weapon Proficiency(One Handed Bastard Sword)
lvl 5)Weapon Focus(One Handed Bastard Sword), Arcane Strike
lvl 7)Intensify Spell(shocking Grasp)
lvl 9)Lunge
lvl 10)Weapon Specialization(One Handed Bastard Sword)
lvl 11)Improved Crit(One Handed Bastard Sword)
That was my general plan, like I said, I am unsure of my first lvl feats and suggestions are welcome. I am also considering Mobility and Spring Attack somewhere in there.
Another side not. I am going for the Bladebound Archetype of Magus.
Thanks for the help.
Wait, how did you get Darkvision from a trait?
Are you sure you checked how Adopted works correctly?
possibly not, this is only the first time I have ever used it. In which case I am all ears on how it is meant to work.
Instead of adopted I could take reactionary. However, that would make my initiative like +8 with improved initiative and my dex mod
I don't see that as a problem. Adopted lets you take race traits normally exclusive to said race.
I think one Dwarven one gave bonuses to saves. You can find a trait optimization guide around these forums, in a sticky thread.
Also there is a number of traits that give perception as a class skill. If you plan to have a familiar (or bladebound.) you will get the alertness feat from it leading to a solid perception check.
There is also heirloom weapon to save yourself the EWP feat. Another good option. Though it can be a problem if your DM is likely to say sunder your weapon.
Regarding the Bastard Sword, did you know you can you a one-handed weapon with two hands for the extra damage? It's is useful for the Magus who won't be casting every round. I figure that is why you're thinking of the Bastard sword...
I personally wouldn't bother with Combat Reflexes either, preferring Power Attack and Cleave to pick up extra attacks.
I like taking Reactionary with Improved Initiative.
Let Daze be your friend, especially after a Trip, ”Now just lie still as we all pound you."
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Hello fellow RPG players!
I am trying to find a way to build my strength based magus before my initial game on friday. I am simply going to list my general plans for my characters general progression through its levels and give a little explanation into what I was thinking when I chose certain feats. Please feel free to give me as many suggestions and advice as possible. Please note that I am not interested in switching to a dex based Magus that uses Dervish Dance and a scimitar.
First off I am a human for the extra feat as well as other reasons that pertain to my characters backstory. Our DM also gave us 1 extra feat to work with. Meaning, as a lvl 1 Human Magus, I have 3 feats.
For my stats it was a 30 point buy system. My DM is planning on having quite a few epic battles and asked us to trust him with this high amount of points. I bought a 16,16,14,14,10,10 to have a decent spread of my abilities without having a negative stats. I assigned them like this.
STR: 18(+4) (+2 from racial bonus)
DEX: 14(+2)
CON: 14(+2)
INT: 16(+3)
WIS: 10(+0)
CHA: 10(+0)Our DM allowed us 2 starting traits. So I chose these:
-Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)
-Adopted (Dwarf)(Darkvision)I am considering replacing adopting with something a little more effective, I just cant seem to think of anything at the moment.
FEATS:(Not sure about any of my lvl 1 feats, suggestions are welcome)
lvl 1)Improved Initiative, Dodge, Combat Reflexes
lvl 3)Weapon Proficiency(One Handed Bastard Sword)
lvl 5)Weapon Focus(One Handed Bastard Sword), Arcane Strike
lvl 7)Intensify Spell(shocking Grasp)
lvl 9)Lunge
lvl 10)Weapon Specialization(One Handed Bastard Sword)
lvl 11)Improved Crit(One Handed Bastard Sword)That was my general plan, like I said, I am unsure of my first lvl feats and suggestions are welcome. I am also considering Mobility and Spring Attack somewhere in there.
Another side not. I am going for the Bladebound Archetype of Magus.
Thanks for the help.
Ok, well before we discuss anything else let me give you 3 very important pieces of advice when it comes to Magi.
1. You are a CASTER who fights, not a fighter who casts. There is a big difference.
You will ALWAYS be behind the real melee classes in total HP, To hit and AC so alter your expectations on how to fight.
2. Any round where you are not using a spell effect to increase damage or control the battlefield you will be hitting as hard as a rogue without flank. Understand what that means.
3. Bladebound archetype is REALLY slow to start (no arcana till 6th level and a noticeably smaller arcane pool) so your first 4 levels or so you will be significantly behind the curve in effectiveness.
1. A magus is a Fighter who casts, most of his best spells rely on beeing in melee or putting you in melee.
1.a. Generally a magus can't afford a high enough INT and neither has early access to spells to spells (like the summoner or bard) to be an effective by himself.
2. A magus can always use arcane mark to make an extra attack per round or hit two-handed.
Humbly,
Yawar
I currently Play a strength based Magus in PFS
I had no trouble from 1-4 and do really well 5+
Any questions feel free to ask.
I was definitely considering power attack and cleave,I will probably take reactionary as my trait or possibly a trait that gives me perception as a class skill. Thanks for the advice so far guys ^-^
Some of this cries out to me as incorrect according to my experience, no disrespect intended. I will relay my early findings from the perspective of a dex bladebound at level 4.
Ok, well before we discuss anything else let me give you 3 very important pieces of advice when it comes to Magi.1. You are a CASTER who fights, not a fighter who casts. There is a big difference.
You will ALWAYS be behind the real melee classes in total HP, To hit and AC so alter your expectations on how to fight.
ON OFFENSE: We're great. The combination of our high crits and spell damage allows us to go nova at a moments notice. I love it.
ON DEFENSE BEING SUB PAR: Disagreed. I feel we will always be ahead of them due to the numerous bonuses we get inherent to our class. While this is somewhat mitigated as a low dex str magus, don't forget that we can whip up a shield spell anytime and get some great AC out of it early on, and as we progress we're likely ahead of most everyone on AC aside from the fighter.
Also, mirror image is so effective it's hard to say we're not on par or ahead of fighters on defense, at least in regard to melee.
2. Any round where you are not using a spell effect to increase damage or control the battlefield you will be hitting as hard as a rogue without flank. Understand what that means.
Agreed, but as a strength magus I imagine those rounds where you need to move and attack are a fair bit better than a rogue. At least you can two handed power attack on a charge :-)
3. Bladebound archetype is REALLY slow to start (no arcana till 6th level and a noticeably smaller arcane pool) so your first 4 levels or so you will be significantly behind the curve in effectiveness.
I'm playing a bladebound. It's not noticeably slower to start. Arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 or 1/3 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier. See here:
Bladebound Arcane Pool 1evel
1-3 1+int mod
3-6 2+int mod
Regular
1-2 1+int mod
3-4 2+int mod
5-6 3+int mod
So you essentially end up one full point behind by level 5, but you save yourself an arcana in a way if you were planning on taking a familiar (which I was). Instead of Improved Familiar I now have a freed up feat, which I used for extra arcane pool.
Also, later on the black blade has its own pool, which you could steal points from anyway. It also has abilities it can activate.
In any event, I've had enough to power my black blade once an encounter every encounter since I started the character. I've never run out, and that's important. I think if I had a third level arcana instead of a +1 keen blackblade every fight it wouldn't have worked out better at all. I'm critting a lot thanks to the super early bonuses black blade gave me.
I would say unless your DM is making it rain with awesome magic items, the blackblade can have a much faster start. Even if he is making it rain, the black blade is still pretty darn nice with its mandatory high plus weapon and swappable weapon damage type.
Also, I dropped arcane strike for craft wondrous item, and here is why:
Arcane strike:
3 encounters per day, 5 rounds per encounter less one round where you lose your swift action to your arcane pool weapon charging is 12 rounds a day of use at 2 swings per round (assuming you never lose a full attack to movement through level 5) and lets assume 60% of your swings hit(24*.6) = 14.4 damage per day, until level 5 when haste could play in and level 8 where you gain an iterative. That's also super generous since you will usually move at least once a fight and lose full attack, and at the end you usually lose a full attack to the "mop up" phase where you kill someone on your first hit and need to move to hit another living target. 14.4 damage a day is unrealistically generous.
Craft wondrous item will allow you to own approximately double the amount of level 1 pearls of power. Let's assume you're shocking grasp focused and can intensify that sucker. Let's assume you invest 20% of WBL into this awesome nova ability and see how we do.
At 5th level you're able to afford 4 instead of 2, for (assume 60% hit rate) 21 damage with is about 7 more damage per day than the guy with arcane strike and no craft wondrous items. It scales up to outrageous levels from there since arcane strike doesn't improve enough to keep up with a guy who could eventually have a full spell load of shocking grasps every fight, every day.
Arcane strike is nice, but craft wondrous items is relatively better for an early dead, assuming no on in the party already has it. If someone does I love arcane strike. Also the craft wondrous item guy should get arcane strike too, just later in his build.
Also keep in mind that with the right arcana (critical strike) you can get a free cast on a crit if you didn't blow your swift action that round on arcane strike. If you take that, then never taking arcane strike is totally legitimate.
Also you could score yourself a scabbard of keen edges later on for just 8k, which would allow you to have another +1d6 elemental damage on your weapon every encounter since you don't need to think about adding keen anymore, most of the time.
I also dislike bastard sword. You're paying a feat for +1 average damage. If you have both craft wondrous item AND arcane strike, you're doing very well on damage. You're also paying to get the bone on crit range, which is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to you, since your shocking grasp is begging for crits.
From I understood regarding Adopted trait, you can pick from Race Traits, not from racial race traits. Darkvision simply gained as a trait seems way too good to me.
Correct.
I would like the bastard sword for flavor reasons like you say. I think I can easily get away with it since I have improved crit for the bastard sword later on. I am trying to find a way to incorporate power attack and cleave into my feats, however the only space I can think of is replacing first lvl feats but I cant do that since a magus's BAB at lvl 1 is 0.
I also cant take the bastard sword as an heirloom item with the trait because it does not qualify as a simple or martial weapon..(Correct me if I am wrong, I am not actually 100% sure)
nvm, I just misread it. I will be taking that and replacing the weapon proficiency with power attack.
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He's really not a fighter who casts. He has no full bab, no d10 hd, and far, far fewer feats. Yes, he must be in melee, but that a fighter does not make. His primary punch is from his spells due to the scarcity of feats/bab, trying to fight like a fighter sorta misses the point. I think that was the point of the poster to whom you were responding.1. A magus is a Fighter who casts, most of his best spells rely on beeing in melee or putting you in melee.
This is part of why I said that a Magus is a caster first and foremost. any round where they are not casting a spell or under the benefits of another spell/supernatural ability they are a sub-par melee combatant barely better then a rogue.
Everything about the magus is really focused on using melee options to deliver and augment his spells, without those the magus is really not much of a threat. With his lower then average to hit bonus (3/4bab on top of his -2 to hit with spell combat), with his inability to two-hand his weapon when using spell combat, his lower HP's and lower AC makes him far less effective in melee then a comparable full bab class. He is required to expend finite resources (spells/arcane pool) to keep up with the other melee types.
This build focuses entirely on the melee side and neglects the caster side so it's damage/survivability is always going to be lower then an equal level ranger/fighter/barb/etc.
Magi are casters, first and foremost accept it, embrace it and enjoy the carnage that brings you. Anything else is likely to be truly disappointing.
In my group we have both a bard and a cleric who have the ability to buff my weapon attacks making it easier for me to hit. Plus another +1 from weapon focus. I also have the enhancement bonus's from the arcana pool. But I do see what you are saying. Let me see if I can alter this a bit.
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This is part of why I said that a Magus is a caster first and foremost.
I suppose it depends on how you define a melee character. A rogue who isn't actively getting into a position to use their sneak attack isn't performing as they should, but they're still a melee character. The same is true of a magus who isn't actively maximizing their spellcasting ability.
That said, the magus' place is in melee, performing spell-assisted melee attacks to deliver their damage. This is, imo, fundamentally different from a wizard or sorcerer.
With his lower then average to hit bonus (3/4bab on top of his -2 to hit with spell combat), with his inability to two-hand his weapon when using spell combat, his lower HP's and lower AC makes him far less effective in melee then a comparable full bab class.
Mmm, I am not sure this is accurate. The magus' weakness is staying power over a long adventuring day, but his burst damage can be pretty extreme. How, then, do you judge "effective" when comparing him against the previously mentioned full BAB class? At mid- to high-levels he can deliver a full attack as touch attacks, meaning his lowest iteratives may actually have a better chance of connecting than the fighter's, and deliver 2 10d6 Shocking Grasps that can each crit for double.
He is required to expend finite resources (spells/arcane pool) to keep up with the other melee types.
Resource management is definitely one of the keys to playing a successful magus. But if he "keeps up" then the magus has been successful. He's not meant to be *more powerful* than other classes. He arguably *is* more powerful in situations where extreme damage is needed on a single target, at the expense of being less strong versus less critical foes. Identifying the difference is the challenge.
This build focuses entirely on the melee side and neglects the caster side so it's damage/survivability is always going to be lower then an equal level ranger/fighter/barb/etc.
A strong build definitely needs to enhance the magus' casting, insomuch as that casting is then used to enhance the magus' melee. Trying to play the magus as a wizard is also a mistake, imo.
Magi are casters, first and foremost accept it, embrace it and enjoy the carnage that brings you. Anything else is likely to be truly disappointing.
I wish you'd illustrate what you mean by this statement. What does being a "caster first and foremost" mean to you?
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I also cant take the bastard sword as an heirloom item with the trait because it does not qualify as a simple or martial weapon..(Correct me if I am wrong, I am not actually 100% sure)
Actually, a bastard sword is a martial weapon...provided it's used two-handed.
Sword, Bastard
A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length, making it too large to use in one hand without special training.
Description: Due to its size, a bastard sword is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.
To be able to use a bastard sword one-handed requires the Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
So what he means by 'don't focus on melee,' should really be 'don't focus on meleeing like a fighter.' IE: blow all your feats on PA, cleave, etc.
Now this I can definitely get behind. I'm still on the fence over whether or not I want PA in my own magus build. On the one hand, 3/4 BAB, no improved weapon focus etc. On the other hand, we have a bard and a couple clerics in the party...
Decisions, decisions... :p
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This is part of why I said that a Magus is a caster first and foremost.I suppose it depends on how you define a melee character. A rogue who isn't actively getting into a position to use their sneak attack isn't performing as they should, but they're still a melee character. The same is true of a magus who isn't actively maximizing their spellcasting ability.
That said, the magus' place is in melee, performing spell-assisted melee attacks to deliver their damage. This is, imo, fundamentally different from a wizard or sorcerer.
With his lower then average to hit bonus (3/4bab on top of his -2 to hit with spell combat), with his inability to two-hand his weapon when using spell combat, his lower HP's and lower AC makes him far less effective in melee then a comparable full bab class.Mmm, I am not sure this is accurate. The magus' weakness is staying power over a long adventuring day, but his burst damage can be pretty extreme. How, then, do you judge "effective" when comparing him against the previously mentioned full BAB class? At mid- to high-levels he can deliver a full attack as touch attacks, meaning his lowest iteratives may actually have a better chance of connecting than the fighter's, and deliver 2 10d6 Shocking Grasps that can each crit for double.
He is required to expend finite resources (spells/arcane pool) to keep up with the other melee types.Resource management is definitely one of the keys to playing a successful magus. But if he "keeps up" then the magus has been successful. He's not meant to be *more powerful* than other classes. He arguably *is* more powerful in situations where extreme damage is needed on a single target, at the expense of being less strong versus less critical foes. Identifying the difference is the challenge.
This build focuses entirely on the melee side and neglects the caster side so it's damage/survivability is always going to be lower then an equal level...
Now that I have a moment lets clean up the argument a bit. This point here is at the core of the argument I'm making, which is that all the Magi's class abilities are really just a new delivery mechanism for a spell. The melee damage from whatever weapon or combat type you use is relatively immaterial in comparison to the spell that's riding along beside it. As you level up the spells become more and more important while the weapon damage becomes less and less relevant. Who cares about 1D10+5 when you're throwing around 15D6+80?
A rogues is the same thing, just a way to deliver sneak attack die onto a target and when they aren't doing that... well you see how this board talks about rogues.Without the spell the average Magi is lucky to deliver 20ish pts of damage a round, which is fine at low levels but when fighting a creature with 2 or 3 or 400 hp's and an AC in high 30's that just isn't enough to matter in a serious adventuring day.
When he isn't delivering spells (whether direct damage or status effects) then he's actually making it harder on his adventuring group since this forces them to do more of the heavy work of defeating the opponent. Every time A magus spends finite character resources (skills, attribute points, armor/weapon upgrades) his spell casting abilities fall further behind the curve making it harder for him to do his job, reducing that targets HP's as fast as possible.
For instance you spend a feat on weapon Specialization, that's 2 pts of damage per successful attack (about 55% of the time so an extra 12 pts of damage a fight) instead of grabbing maximize spell (which is an extra 45% damage on lvl/d6 per fight (about 25pts per spell at 10th).
Spells are where all your real damage comes from and the Magi who spend their cash, feats and skills on melee improvements either wind up blowing their wad once or twice a day and limping along till the boss fight (or on everything but the boss fight) or being completely unable to deliver their spell damage when it's needed (poor spell penetration, low spells/arcane pool points, or truly laughable DC's).
Magi who instead burn their resources maxing their arcane power (High spell DC's, plentiful spells per day and flexibility in casting styles) float through the adventuring day always capable of bringing arcane power to bear whenever they want to instead of needing to hoard it till they HAVE to spend it.
The goal of a good caster is to always have the right spell or enough magical force to overcome or bypass any obstacle that gets in your way, which is hard to do if you gutted your casting ability just so you can swing a sword a little harder.
Realistically anything you want to get from melee prowess you can achieve with a little magical boost but not vice-versa.
edit: Oh and to answer your question on how to judge effectiveness is simple, if the rest of the party is ready and able to handle another challenge that day and you are sucking wind needing to rest then you aren't that effective of an adventuring companion.
Okay, I can't argue with you this time Mathwei, everything you say makes sense. Although I do think (not that you have said anything contrary to this) that melee abilities that improve your chances to hit with spellstrike spells are the exception.
Hrm. You're making me rethink a few choices in my own magus build, such as Arcane Strike and Bane Blade.
Yeah, I debated myself, but I just don't think it's worthwhile. Yeah, you do a bit more damage when you're not using your big guns, but so what? If you don't need to use a spell, a couple more points of damage is probably irrelevant anyway. And when you do use a spell, missing sucks, and the damage from PA is totally eclipsed by your spell damage...
*nod* This is why it's not currently in my build. But I'm not 100% sold on all my mid- to high-level choices, thus the internal debate. :p
I've submitted an anti-SR spell to my DM for approval. If that is approved, then the need for Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration is greatly lessened, leaving me with two end-game feats to consider.
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Okay, I can't argue with you this time Mathwei, everything you say makes sense. Although I do think (not that you have said anything contrary to this) that melee abilities that improve your chances to hit with spellstrike spells are the exception.
Hrm. You're making me rethink a few choices in my own magus build, such as Arcane Strike and Bane Blade.
Abilities that increase your chance to hit are fine since they increase your chance of doing what you are supposed to do, deliver spells to a target. Just make sure you get the more important magical abilities that do that job first.
And this is why I don't like the Black Blade archetype, it's one of the (IMHO) worst of the archetypes. You give up so much in exchange for so little. Gutting a third of your arcane pool and delaying access to all arcana till 6th level in exchange for a weapon you have to fight with all the time and you can't add the best magus related enchants to? Doesn't seem worth it to me.
Now for a fighter the black blade would be awesome, even a ranger or barbarian would get more mileage out of it than a magus ever should. Before everyone jumps to defend it let me explain why. It's an understanding that a Magus is a very efficient spell delivery system and should routinely focus on improving that. The black blade is a very efficient MELEE damage delivery system with special abilities to mitigate the fighters weakness (disarm, sunder, poor will save, golfbag of weapons syndrome, etc).
These two character types are worlds apart and everything the black blade offers are things a spell delivery system doesn't need. A weapon is just a tool to aid you deliver a spell/spell-like effect onto a target and any tool will do for that job.
Why are you sacrificing your arcane power to improve your melee potential?
As for your 2 choices Arcane strike and Bane blade, well arcane strike is only good if you don't have anything else to do with your swift action each round and you will have better options. Either using arcane accuracy, dropping a quickened spell, using spell recall or using certain skills you probably won't have time to use that feat past 2nd or 3rd level.
Bane blade on the other hand is pure melee damage at 15th+ level, this is the point when melee damage has long been eclipsed by spells and adds so little as to be almost worthless. If you could take it at 7th or 9th maybe but 15th is far to late to be worth it.
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Some of this cries out to me as incorrect according to my experience, no disrespect intended. I will relay my early findings from the perspective of a dex bladebound at level 4.
Ok, well before we discuss anything else let me give you 3 very important pieces of advice when it comes to Magi.1. You are a CASTER who fights, not a fighter who casts. There is a big difference.
You will ALWAYS be behind the real melee classes in total HP, To hit and AC so alter your expectations on how to fight.ON OFFENSE: We're great. The combination of our high crits and spell damage allows us to go nova at a moments notice. I love it.
ON DEFENSE BEING SUB PAR: Disagreed. I feel we will always be ahead of them due to the numerous bonuses we get inherent to our class. While this is somewhat mitigated as a low dex str magus, don't forget that we can whip up a shield spell anytime and get some great AC out of it early on, and as we progress we're likely ahead of most everyone on AC aside from the fighter.
Also, mirror image is so effective it's hard to say we're not on par or ahead of fighters on defense, at least in regard to melee.
2. Any round where you are not using a spell effect to increase damage or control the battlefield you will be hitting as hard as a rogue without flank. Understand what that means.Agreed, but as a strength magus I imagine those rounds where you need to move and attack are a fair bit better than a rogue. At least you can two handed power attack on a charge :-)
3. Bladebound archetype is REALLY slow to start (no arcana till 6th level and a noticeably smaller arcane pool) so your first 4 levels or so you will be significantly behind the curve in effectiveness.I'm playing a bladebound. It's not noticeably slower to start. Arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 or 1/3 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier. See here:
Bladebound Arcane Pool 1evel ...
No disrespect taken, I always enjoy getting a different viewpoint and maybe getting a better understanding of how the game plays.
To address your comments I will say I still kinda disagree with you on the defense side. Here's why, you are correct in stating that a Magus can easily have a higher AC, to hit or HP's, but there is an or in that statement. You can easily up one of those well past the other melee but the others will suffer so your total defense (the combination of AC, HP's and miss chance) stays below the average for the party melee types. This matters since each one of those stats can be easily circumvented in mid level play (true strike/blind fight bypasses high AC and Miss chance, Save or Die/suck bypass HP's, combat maneuvers skip them all).
Two hand PA on a charge is nice and with the right weapon may add what, 6 maybe 9 pts of damage to a hit? I'd much rather walk up and add a maximized shocking grasp (108 pts at 10th which is earlier then you could add the +9 from PA). You have to admit a 1st level spell slot is a LOT cheaper then a feat and a -2 to your AC for 12x the bonus 3 levels earlier.
As for the arcane pool the reason I say it's significantly behind is you lose points (yes you can pull them from the blade but not until 13th+ level, WAY to late) but you can't have ANY arcana till 6th level. That's easily a third (or a half for PFS) of your characters adventuring life. This means NO arcane accuracy, no maneuver mastery, no still spell and you are giving up a third (A THIRD) of your spell recall ability in exchange for a sentient item who's motivation may well by completely different from yours and can fight you for it.
As for the familiar vs. black blade trade, I honestly think you traded down. The familiar is MUCH more valuable since it can take actions and manipulate objects on its own.
The blade can turn itself on or off or look around where you're already looking but that's about it. It can't tell your party anything, can't save your life with a potion/wand, can't scout the area, can't interrogate other creatures like itself, can't shapechange into a more useful form or be more than a hunk of tin at your side.
A familiar gives you a whole extra round of actions all the time, the black blade actually costs you actions when you use it. In this game action economy is king and the familiar wins that challenge hands down.
One thing people need to start remembering about Magus.
Everyone talks about the disadvantages of 3/4 BAB and -2 for spell combat.
This does not hold you back from hitting. Because ARCANE POOL erases your to hit and damage disadvantage.
Consider level 4.
2 hand Fighter w/weapon focus/spec
18str
Has a to hit of BAB 4+4(str)+1(feat)-2(PA)=7
Damage of x+6(1.5str)+2(spec)+6(PA)=14
Magus w/weapon focus
18str
Has a BAB 3+4(str)+1(feat)+1(Arcane Pool)-1(PA)=8 better to hit
Damage of x+6(1.5Str)+3(PA)+1Pool= 10
In the case of Spellstrike your to hit bonus at level 4 is better than the fighters.
At level 5 the fighter would get weapon training. The magus gets a +2 weapon, likely the fighter is still wielding a +1.
Magai have class abilities that effectively make them full bab.
Fighters don't hit better. They hit harder. And only when you are not putting a spell on top.
You might consider combining the bladeborn with the kensai, myrmidarch, or skirnir archetypes. There is no overlap in ability substitutions so you should be able to combine bladeborn with any of them. Kensai in particular seems like a good fit. All 3 are definitely not spell focused.
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Black blade dis...Totally agree with you on the Black Blade. In fact, I feel that most of the magus archetypes just give up way too much for too little in return. Straight Magus is just so damn good at what it does...
Most of them do, the hexcrafter is the exception however. I find that archetype to be leaps and bounds ahead of even the straight magus. Delaying access to spell recall isn't really that big a deal in comparison to all you get from adding at-will hexes and curses to your abilities. It removes the biggest disadvantage the class has (limited magical resources and low attack bonus) while MASSIVELY increasing their everyday abilities and sustained PR. Being on par with average melee'er all day while still being able to burst like the sun when desired is just obscenely entertaining.
Me and Mathwei did a hexcrafter guide. Check it out and you'll see why
One of the advantages of the strength magus is that they can take advantage of the better armor available at higher levels, right?
I think both arguments have their merit. But I've neither the time nor inclination to put out my full thoughts on the subject. Their are weaknesses (big ones) to the caster over martial approach as their is the martial over caster approach. Much of it has to do with longevity and versatility.
Unfortunately as a caster magus's scrape the bottom in the versatility game.
My advice: Concentrate on what your character would like and what you like as a player, not so much as the most optimized collection of mechanics. Also don't forget about the rest of the party! Build to their strengths as well as your own.
In our home Rise of the Runelords campaign, I've been playing a Dwarven Mage-Smith Magus. I've included his build below. He's by no means optimized for combat, but I love the character and maybe Dolgar will give you some ideas. Here's some notes:
The longsword is because we found a magic adamantine one while adventuring and I couldn't afford to replace it for a long time, so I just kept it. Many levels later our DM let me use a 3.5 weapon mod to put a wand into it and use the wand whenever I want. (Basically permanent Weaponwand.)
Spell Recall and powering up my weapons are the two abilities I spend pool points on the most. In recent days spending a single point to get back Dispel Magic has been extremely useful, but getting more (Intensified) Shocking Grasps was the main use early on. We haven't gone up against too many things that were nigh-impossible to hit, but Accurate Strike, Dispel Magic, and debuffs (our party also includes a Witch) have handled that.
(Greater) Bladed Dash helps with combat movement issues, which can still be a concern even once you have nigh-permanent flying via Overland Flight.
Combat Casting isn't needed now, but at least I hardly ever have to worry about succeeding at Cast Defensively checks or take to-hit penalties to make sure I don't flub a spell.
I've gotten good use out of Power Attack because we have typically had longer adventuring days and thus I couldn't cast spells every round against every mook-level enemy and still have something for tougher guys. Steady extra damage is good when you're hitting regularly.
Intensified Spell is almost a must for every Magus.
I like having a Familiar. I don't use Geir enough, but he's been a great addition to the party and I like having the bonuses.
If you've got a crafting feat, take advantage of the 1/4 day per adventuring day rule! Dolgar's always got a project.
Anyway, hope this helps and enjoy your game! :)
Dolgar Thunderfist:
LG follower of Torag
Str: 15->20 (8th +1, Belt +4)
Dex: 12->12
Con: 12->18 (Race +2, Belt +4)
Int: 15->21 (4th +1, 12th +1, Headband +4)
Wis: 10->12 (Race +2)
Cha: 12->10 (Race -2)
(20 points)
Craftsman alternate racial trait.
Traits
Eldritch Smith
Outlander - Lore Seeker
Feats (approximate order)
1) Combat Casting
3) Power Attack
5) Craft Wondrous Item
B5) Craft Magic Arms and Armor
7) Intensified Spell
9) Weapon Focus: Longsword
11) Weapon Specialization: Longsword
B11) Forge Ring
13) Craft Wand
15) Spell Penetration
Arcana
3) Familiar - Owl (Burrowing Owl named Geir)
6) Wand Wielder
9) Accurate Strike
12) Maximized Magic
15) Quickened Magic
Skills
Max/Close: Knowledge (arcana), Perception, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Ohter Points: Craft (armor, jewelry, sculpture, stonemasonry, weapons), Fly, various Knowledges, Linguistics
Belts: Knowledge (history, local)
Gear
(this gets messy due to self-crafting and my GM allowing combinations with cost penalties where appropriate, but hopefully it gives you some ideas of what you might want)
+3 Folding, +2 Natural Armor of Adaptation Adamantine Full Plate
+2 Runeforged, Keen, Wand Chamber Adamantine Longsword
Father's Forgehammer
Belt of +4 Str/Con
Headband of +4 Int
Ring of Freedom of Movement
Ring of +3 Protection and Sustenance
+3 Cloak of Resistance
Boots of Striding and Springing (hardly ever used now, but extremely useful earlier on)
Wand of Shield CL2 (in sword)
potions, wands, Handy Haversack, other stuff.
Common Spells over Dolgar's Adventuring Lifetime
1) Feather Fall, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp
2) Bladed Dash, Scorching Ray, Intensified Shocking Grasp
3) Dispel Magic, Fireball, Fly, Haste
4) Dimension Door, Intensified Fireball, Forceful Strike
5) Corrosive Consumption, Greater Bladed Dash, Overland Flight
(You'd think that Vampiric Touch would be a big one, but it just hasn't worked out that way for Dolgar. ::shrug:: )
How does your black blade lose 1/3rd of his pool? Even without taking the extra pool feat this is my results:
.
.
.
.
Regular B B % of pool for going black blade
4 4 100
4 4 100
4 4 100
5 4 80
5 4 80
7 6 85.71428571
7 6 85.71428571
9 7 77.77777778
9 8 88.88888889
11 9 81.81818182
11 9 81.81818182
12 10 83.33333333
12 10 83.33333333
13 10 76.92307692
13 11 84.61538462
Average arcane pool size for black blade is 86% over 15 levels. NOT including the part where I can rob my sword over the last few levels... which by the way pushed it to 90% of the regular magus pool over the first 15 levels.
Assumptions are a 16 starting int, +2 int item at 7th and first two stats in int by 8, and then a +4 item by 11. These assumptions were loaded for both sides.
SO THERE. MATH :-)
Also with an arcane pool of 4/5 I wouldn't be blowing it on +int to hit for a round until after the pool is bigger, I'm saving it to enchant my weapon every fight for the most part. You're trying to frame this as though the black blade is horrible, but he loses virtually nothing, especially considering the mandatory weapon bonus he's getting in exchange.
Last edit: I would also suggest the black blade starts out STRONGER than a regular magus due to mandatory enchants. Especially considering he can divert the cost of his weapon to a mile long pearl necklace of pearls of power, giving him more damage far faster than his regular counterpart.
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Me and Mathwei did a hexcrafter guide. Check it out and you'll see whyReading this now. Why isn't this on Guide to the Guides? You've been holding out on me, Str Ranger! My TWF Ranger would never of worked without your help.
This comment makes me happy ;)
Shock I know, STR Ranger made a guide that is not about TWF.
But in my defense Magai kinda do it via slash/slash+spell.
I would like it in Guide to the guides, but never got around to plugging it myself.
The guide is unique for me because it is the first one I had a collaborator with. Mathwei provided a good insight into a facet of Magus I neglect because I hate multiclassing, his DEFILER build is impressive.
I'll do another guide someday....