I am just curious if there has been any errata on the number of non-natural attacks an eidolon gets per round, or is it still one per held weapon in an arm?
Given that an eidolon is only limited with respect to the number of natural attacks he can deliver, and that every other attack is made at the eidolon's highest attack bonus. I was just curious if a pouncing Quadruped with a ton of (insert 1 handed weapon and appropriate feats) in his hands was still as broken as it once was, or did pathfinder finally change it?
As max attacks only accounts for natural attacks I have seen players try to argue that they attack with every held weapon, and then drop some to attack with claw attacks upon completion of a full round action. Though I would never allow this in a game I ran, it does seem odd to just limit the natural attacks and not limit the total attacks.
It just seems odd. As odd as a monstrous fighter using all of his attacks with 2 weapon fighting, and then trying to argue that he can take a -5 to his natural attacks and use his claw and bite attacks as well.
Making it a hard limit for all attacks was meant to happen, but it slipped Jason's mind before it went off to the printer.
Finally, there is one slight issue that does seem to be a problem that I thought I fixed, but it appears that it might have slipped by me and that is the bypassing of the attack limit by using manufactured weapons. I am willing to let it play out for now, but might revisit this issue in the future if it proves to be a problem.
Given that an eidolon is only limited with respect to the number of natural attacks he can deliver, and that every other attack is made at the eidolon's highest attack bonus.
How is it making more than one attack at full BAB? If you're talking about Two-Weapon Fighting and multiple off-hands, there's a FAQ request post for that here.
As max attacks only accounts for natural attacks I have seen players try to argue that they attack with every held weapon, and then drop some to attack with claw attacks upon completion of a full round action.
If you mean attack with the manufactured weapons, then drop the manufactured weapons, then attack with natural weapons, all as part of the same full-attack action, then no.
Natural Attacks: "Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type."
If you mean full-attack with manufactured weapons, then drop the weapons so it can use natural weapons in later rounds, then no problem.
I'm guessing the Eidolon takes the Multiweapon Fighting feat (which is TWF, except for 3 or more arms).
Natural Attacks: "Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type."If you mean full-attack with manufactured weapons, then drop the weapons so it can use natural weapons in later rounds, then no problem.
This is interesting. What you are saying is that if I am playing a race with natural attacks, claws and a bite, I can effectively do the following combinations.
Use a 2-handed sword then bite.
Use my monk hits as kicks, then claw and bite.
Use a 1 handed sword then claw and bite.
I can effectively let the cheese fly.
It's time to make a kicking/pelvic thrusting/tail whipping monk, which will save my claw and bite attacks for my off hand attacks.
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Here is an example:
You have an eidolon with 4 arms, 4 claws, and a Bite, and is able to make 5 Attacks. He is also proficient with longswords.
He can do any of the following combinations:
4 Claws and 1 Bite
1 Longsword, 3 Claws and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
2 Longswords, 2 Claws and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
3 Longswords, 1 Claw and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
4 Longswords and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
I'm guessing the Eidolon takes the Multiweapon Fighting feat (which is TWF, except for 3 or more arms).
Much like Two-Weapon Fighting, Multiweapon Fighting only reduces penalties, it does not grant extra attacks.
The assumption is that anyone with more than two weapons can use the Two-Weapon Fighting mechanics to make as many attacks as they have off-hands. Some monsters seem to have this built-in (Marilith, Vrolikai, Lhaksharut) so it's important to know if it also applies to Eidolons, or even humanoid PCs with multiple weapons.
What you are saying is that if I am playing a race with natural attacks, claws and a bite, I can effectively do the following combinations.
Use a 2-handed sword then bite.
Use my monk hits as kicks, then claw and bite.
Use a 1 handed sword then claw and bite.
Yep. You don't need to be a monk, anyone can make unarmed strikes with punches, kicks, and head butts.
You can also fight that way with weapons like armor spikes, boot daggers, and barbazu beards.
Here is an example:
You have an eidolon with 4 arms, 4 claws, and a Bite, and is able to make 5 Attacks. He is also proficient with longswords.
He can do any of the following combinations:
4 Claws and 1 Bite
1 Longsword, 3 Claws and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
2 Longswords, 2 Claws and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
3 Longswords, 1 Claw and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
4 Longswords and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
Actually Elamdri, if the swords are 1 handed and he has 4 sets of arms and 4 sets of claws, his attacks are more like.
4 Swords, 4 Claws, 1 bite - Because the Max attack total only applies to Natural attacks.
Thus if he had 4 sets of claws and no weapons he could only make a total of 5 attacks instead of the 9 mentioned above.
Actually Elamdri, if the swords are 1 handed and he has 4 sets of arms and 4 sets of claws, his attacks are more like.
4 Swords, 4 Claws, 1 bite - Because the Max attack total only applies to Natural attacks.
The natural weapon rules say he must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb. This means if he uses an arm to wield a sword, he can't make an attack with the claw on that arm.
If all four arms are wielding longswords, and his mouth is wielding a mouthpick weapon, and he (somehow) makes attacks with all five of those weapons, he can't also make attacks with the natural weapons that share those limbs.
Actually Elamdri, if the swords are 1 handed and he has 4 sets of arms and 4 sets of claws, his attacks are more like.
4 Swords, 4 Claws, 1 bite - Because the Max attack total only applies to Natural attacks.
The natural weapon rules say he must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb. This means if he uses an arm to wield a sword, he can't make an attack with the claw on that arm.
If all four arms are wielding longswords, and his mouth is wielding a mouthpick weapon, and he (somehow) makes attacks with all five of those weapons, he can't also make attacks with the natural weapons that share those limbs.
The arms evolution gives you 2 arms. The claws evolution gives you a pair of claws per set of arms.
Taking arms 4x gives you 8 arms. Thus 4 swords, 4 claws, and the free bite.
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Here is an example:
You have an eidolon with 4 arms, 4 claws, and a Bite, and is able to make 5 Attacks. He is also proficient with longswords.
He can do any of the following combinations:
4 Claws and 1 Bite
1 Longsword, 3 Claws and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
2 Longswords, 2 Claws and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
3 Longswords, 1 Claw and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
4 Longswords and 1 Bite (With appropriate penalties)
Actually Elamdri, if the swords are 1 handed and he has 4 sets of arms and 4 sets of claws, his attacks are more like.
4 Swords, 4 Claws, 1 bite - Because the Max attack total only applies to Natural attacks.
Thus if he had 4 sets of claws and no weapons he could only make a total of 5 attacks instead of the 9 mentioned above.
I said 4 arms, not 4 sets of arms.