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I have spent the past couple of hours reading threads going back a year or more where this question was debated rather endlessly (it was like watching a Nascar race, every couple of minutes the entire conversation repeated the same loop ...). I have no interest in starting yet another round, since clearly the answer comes down to "Ask your GM."
So I am asking if our GM (M&M, or their predecessors or designated proxies) have definitively answered either of these questions for PFS in particular:
1. Can a character, as part of a charge, use an Acrobatics roll to leap over a section of difficult terrain / a pit / a prone ally? Does it make a difference if the DC is low enough that the character can succeed even on a rolled 1? (Note that this is clearly legal as a move + attack, if the total movement is less than a single move action; I want to know if a character can leap as part of a charge so as to get the +2 attack bonus and/or move twice his movement rate.)
2. Can a character, as part of a move + attack action, use a DC 20 Acrobatics to leap 5' into the air just prior to the attack to gain the +1 for "Higher Ground"? (And if the answers to this and #1 are both yes, would this allow use of the Death from Above feat to get a net +5 instead of +3?)
Again, not looking for another round of opinions, those are clearly divided. I am hoping that a PFS ruling has been made, and someone can direct me to it.
Thanks!
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This forum is about the most official way to request it that you're going to find. If it turns out to be a huge deal that is affecting a lot of players and causing a lot of frustration and anger, then you can expect a ruling.
The campaign staff is trying to maintain a level playing field while not having to enumerate every possible situation. That way lies madness.
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1. Can a character, as part of a charge, use an Acrobatics roll to leap over a section of difficult terrain / a pit / a prone ally? Does it make a difference if the DC is low enough that the character can succeed even on a rolled 1? (Note that this is clearly legal as a move + attack, if the total movement is less than a single move action; I want to know if a character can leap as part of a charge so as to get the +2 attack bonus and/or move twice his movement rate.)
2. Can a character, as part of a move + attack action, use a DC 20 Acrobatics to leap 5' into the air just prior to the attack to gain the +1 for "Higher Ground"? (And if the answers to this and #1 are both yes, would this allow use of the Death from Above feat to get a net +5 instead of +3?)
Again, not looking for another round of opinions, those are clearly divided. I am hoping that a PFS ruling has been made, and someone can direct me to it.
Thanks!
If I were the GM I'd say no. It clearly states if there is an obstacle or difficult terrain, including an ally (I would say even one that is prone) then the Charge action is not possible. Acrobatics can't be used to circumvent the Special Attacks rule. As far as jumping to get higher ground I would say no as well. That, to me, is a silly way to scrap up another +1 to attack.
Rule included for reference:
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.
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Well, the Janni Style feat chain grants bonuses when jumping during a charge, implying that it is a normal thing to jump during a charge.
Hmm, I haven't read this book so I wasn't aware of this ability. I looked it up in the PRD. It appears this style supersedes the Core book definition. If the character had this style and feats I would be fine with it.
My Master of Many Styles activates Dragon Style, allowing him to charge through difficult terrain and/or squares containing allies. Can HE jump a pit as well ?
1. Can a character, as part of a charge, use an Acrobatics roll to leap over a section of difficult terrain / a pit / a prone ally? Does it make a difference if the DC is low enough that the character can succeed even on a rolled 1? (Note that this is clearly legal as a move + attack, if the total movement is less than a single move action; I want to know if a character can leap as part of a charge so as to get the +2 attack bonus and/or move twice his movement rate.)
2. Can a character, as part of a move + attack action, use a DC 20 Acrobatics to leap 5' into the air just prior to the attack to gain the +1 for "Higher Ground"? (And if the answers to this and #1 are both yes, would this allow use of the Death from Above feat to get a net +5 instead of +3?)
Again, not looking for another round of opinions, those are clearly divided. I am hoping that a PFS ruling has been made, and someone can direct me to it.
Thanks!
If I were the GM I'd say no. It clearly states if there is an obstacle or difficult terrain, including an ally (I would say even one that is prone) then the Charge action is not possible. Acrobatics can't be used to circumvent the Special Attacks rule. As far as jumping to get higher ground I would say no as well. That, to me, is a silly way to scrap up another +1 to attack.
Rule included for reference:
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.
This is incorrect. While you cannot charge through obstacles or difficult terrain without a special ability, you can attempt to avoid it during a charge. If you jump over difficult terrain or a pit, the path of your charge no longer includes an obstacle and you can complete the charge. A Duelist or someone using Dragon Style would not have to attempt the jump.
If the character fails the check, treat it as if someone had used a readied action to somehow create difficult terrain in the path of the charge, and the charge stops at the first blocking square. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for so many DM's.
The fact that Janni Style gives a bonus to this sort of thing proves that you can do it. And completely aside from that, it is a great, cinematic image and the sort of thing that should be encouraged.
The second is slightly sillier, but by RAW it works and in PFS you have to follow that RAW and allow people to do it. It is frustrating, but that is the sort of super-strict rule of law over DM's that PFS has.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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1)By all rights, jumping during a charge should work - BUT the Acrobatics check needs to be for a long-jump, not a high-jump. Thus, the vertical distance cleared is equal to 1/4th the distance jumped, and NOT 1/4th the Acrobatics check rolled.
Ex: to clear an obstacle the is 5' high, one must jump no less than 20' horizontally, and since the 5' cleared is at the apex of the jump, you must jump 10' before the obstacle so that you land an equal distance away from the obstacle.
Also note that the DC for Acrobatics to Jump doubles until you've moved at least 10'.
2)Unless you landed on a square that already had high-ground I do not believe you could get the high-ground bonus for jumping prior to your swing, as your movement must end prior to your next action. That being said, you could use Spring Attack I guess, or ready a melee attack for when they're next to you and then use your move to jump over to them... point is, you'd have to be really, REALLY situational
Hope this helps ^_^
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@Saint Caleth - the original poster said he didn't want to start a back and forth. Let's leave it as a disagreement in interpreting the rule. He asked how GMs would call it. That's how I would rule it at my table. I don't see anything in the Core book that says one can jump over an obstacle or difficult terrain as part of a Charge action. It clearly says a Charge isn't possible. To me, the Style section in UC does answer that issue. Having a Style exist doesn't pass through to other characters in as much as having a gunslinger doesn't allow everyone to use guns without the feat. I respect your opinion and would follow your ruling if you were the GM.
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or ready a melee attack for when they're next to you and then use your move to jump over to them... point is,Surely not legal.
I haven't seen (could be wrong) anything that says you cannot ready a move to avoid an attack. Can it be abused, I suppose, but if you are readying an action then you are giving up some options for your turn so there is a cost involved. If you are trying to lure an opponent into a specific position, it could be a very effective action.
For the OP, you are not likely to receive an "official" response from M&M. While your request is PFS specific, the rule/mechanics involved are still PF general. So standard resolution applies. I know you don't want to take this to the rules forum, I don't blame you, but that's kinda the way it is. You might be able to get an opinion from James Jacobs in his semi-official "Ask James Jacobs" thread, but he tends to give his opinion, as opposed to hard and fast rules.
Personally, I do allow jumping to avoid obstacles while charging, whether that be difficult terrain, pits, etc. but I see few players attempt to try it. I would allow the higher ground bonus as well assuming the PC can reach a height of at least 5ft vertical. If not, it becomes increasingly difficult to find opportunities to use the death from above feat and I am all about giving player's opportunities to use their character's abilities.
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Why? I specifically posted this as a PFS specific question, and received my PFS specific answer (that there is no ruling, GMs make the call at the table). I even specifically said I didn't want to start a new round of the same arguments about this in the rules forum. Please put this back in PFS where I posted it, or just lock.
Why? I specifically posted this as a PFS specific question, and received my PFS specific answer (that there is no ruling, GMs make the call at the table). I even specifically said I didn't want to start a new round of the same arguments about this in the rules forum. Please put this back in PFS where I posted it, or just lock.
The simple answer? It isn't a "PFS specific" ruling. For PFS the game follows the rules in the book which means it is more appropriately a "Rules Forum" question. It happens from time to time.