Axiomatic / Anarchic Holy / Unholy Weapons.


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Can a weapon be both Axiomatic/Anarchic or Holy/Unholy?

Why or why not?

Please try to stick to RAW.

Sovereign Court

By the rules? Prolly yes. Because they are basically bane weapon properties and you can have more then 1 of those on a weapon. Would I allow it in my campaign? Prolly not.


Why not? A true neutral character could create a +1 Axiomatic Anarchic Holy Unholy longsword, and wield it; it'd do an extra 2d6 or 4d6 damage (depending on enemy alignment) to any non-true-neutral opponent.

Each magic enchantment requires a specific alignment - holy requires a good alignment, for example - but those can each be bypassed by increasing the creation DC by 5, as with any other creation prerequisite that you don't meet.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

"For the True Neutral Zealots close to your heart: The all new +1 Axiomatic Anarchic Holy Unholy Longsword by Artificer Industries."

Grand Lodge

As it is often debated, I suggest hitting the FAQ button next to the original post.

The evidence seems clear to me, but outside opinions are nice, and official responses are nicer.


Wasn't there an old 3.5 weapon that did something similar, dealing increasing damage to a character the further their alignment deviated from TN?

EDIT: As to the question I can seen nothing in RAW that would disallow such a weapon and as others have pointed out I could see a TN character actually wanting a weapon like this, so it's all gravy as far as I can tell.

Sovereign Court

Final Word swords. From 1st edition actually.


you could do that yes.

but my preference is
holy, flaming,freezeing and corrosive
as a +4 cold ireon or silver weapon.

why you might ask,

carry the right tool for the right job or carry a big stick.

well its a big stick

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Seems totally legit to me. The weapon is able to radiate either chaotic or lawful "energy" depending on the creature it's hitting. I don't think it would make sense that both abilities are truly active at the same time (as in both chaotic and lawful energy being used on the same attack), but that doesn't really make any mechanical difference.

Contributor

14 people marked this as a favorite.

Where in any of these weapon special ability descriptions does it limit what other properties can go on a weapon with one of those abilities?

Seriously.


Snarky SKR is snarky. ;-) Thanks for the post though sir.

Edit: Response favorited.


I don't see why not. The only limitation I found is that you need two different enchanters; one for each side of the axis. Other than that, it's no different than having flaming and frost on the weapon. If you want to give it a thematic flavor, make it a double weapon with the enchantments divided. Also, you'd need to maintain neutral alignment on the selected axis to avoid negative repercussions.

Grand Lodge

Thanks SKR. You just made my day.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Cylyria wrote:
By the rules? Prolly yes. Because they are basically bane weapon properties and you can have more then 1 of those on a weapon. Would I allow it in my campaign? Prolly not.

Actually I don't think you can have multiple a bane abilities on a single weapon:

PRD wrote:
Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

Bane is one ability, and a bane weapon has one designated foe, not multiple ones.


wasnt the old axe of the dwarf lords giant and goblin bane??

Sovereign Court

Yeah, but wasn't it also an artifact?


an artifact made long ago on the first forge......

bane is one enchantment, a weapon can have to bane enchantments.

they have to be different banes though.

aka your goblin crusher maul, can't have two goblin bane enchantments on it.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Where in any of these weapon special ability descriptions does it limit what other properties can go on a weapon with one of those abilities?

Seriously.

Where it says that the weapon is that alignment I figured it was inferred...

So you're saying that the weapon is Lawful Chaotic, or would it be Chaotic Lawful?

Really?

-James


it would be nuetral aligned, any aura's produced by said weapon would cancel each other out


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Steelfiredragon wrote:
wasnt the old axe of the dwarf lords giant and goblin bane??

What the "old" axe of the dwarfish lords was in previous iterations of D&D is of no consequence to the rules of the Pathfinder RPG. In these rules the axe is a +6 keen throwing goblinoid bane dwarven waraxe—obviously with a single bane ability.

Steelfiredragon wrote:

bane is one enchantment, a weapon can have to bane enchantments.

they have to be different banes though.

Weapons do not have "enchantments" in the Pathfinder RPG. They have enhancement bonuses and special abilities (note that "enhancement" and "enchantment" are entirely different words), and the rule clearly states:

PRD wrote:
Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once

The special ability in question is "bane", not "goblin bane" or "giant bane". Thus, a weapon can only have one bane ability.

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
james maissen wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Where in any of these weapon special ability descriptions does it limit what other properties can go on a weapon with one of those abilities?

Seriously.

Where it says that the weapon is that alignment I figured it was inferred...

So you're saying that the weapon is Lawful Chaotic, or would it be Chaotic Lawful?
Really?
-James

Are you suggesting that there are no weapons that can bypass DR/chaotic AND DR/lawful?

Are you suggesting that there is a rule that says you can't have a sacred bonus and a profane bonus at the same time?


Sean K Reynolds wrote:


Are you suggesting that there are no weapons that can bypass DR/chaotic AND DR/lawful?

I'm saying that an item having both lawful and chaotic alignments doesn't make sense.

As to bypassing both DR/chaotic and DR/lawful? Sure.. any +5 weapon will do that.

These weapons have an alignment. An axiomatic weapon is lawfully aligned. It doesn't get to be lawfully chaotically aligned (or is chaotically lawful aligned?). Why should one expect it to be any different?

I'm guessing that you would allow an intelligent CE holy weapon/avenger? That chaotic evil sentient weapon infused with the power of good that makes it good aligned...

-James

Contributor

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james maissen wrote:
These weapons have an alignment. An axiomatic weapon is lawfully aligned. It doesn't get to be lawfully chaotically aligned (or is chaotically lawful aligned?). Why should one expect it to be any different?

Because it's an unintelligent object, not a creature, and therefore isn't making alignment-based decisions, and therefore its alignment is just for the purpose of interacting with spells, class abilities, and DR rather than the alignment rules for characters? Rules which say:

A creature's general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment: lawful good, neutral good, chaotic good, lawful neutral, neutral, chaotic neutral, lawful evil, neutral evil, or chaotic evil.

Where is the rule that you can't have flaming and frost on the same weapon?

james maissen wrote:
I'm guessing that you would allow an intelligent CE holy weapon/avenger? That chaotic evil sentient weapon infused with the power of good that makes it good aligned...

An intelligent item is not a regular object, and is therefore a special case:

Magic items sometimes have intelligence of their own. Magically imbued with sentience, these items think and feel the same way characters do and should be treated as NPCs. Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs.


What about Deadly and merciful? (Sorry.)


Sean K Reynolds wrote:


Because it's an unintelligent object, not a creature, and therefore isn't making alignment-based decisions, and therefore its alignment is just for the purpose of interacting with spells, class abilities, and DR rather than the alignment rules for characters?

An intelligent item is not a regular object, and is therefore a special case:

Great, so I take your Evil-Good longsword (or chaotic-lawful one) and I further enchant it to give it sentience. What alignment(s) can it be all at once? Or can it not be further enchanted now?

Though if you would give me a straight reply I am curious.. why the restriction on the spell 'align weapon'? If an archaic axiomatic weapon is legal, then why should one need to restrict the spell at all?

-James

Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
james maissen wrote:
Great, so I take your Evil-Good longsword (or chaotic-lawful one) and I further enchant it to give it sentience. What alignment(s) can it be all at once? Or can it not be further enchanted now?

I have answered more of your questions than you have of mine. Until we reach a balance, I shall answer no more.

*fades into the mists*

Grand Lodge

Mine are answered.

Thanks again SKR.

Scarab Sages

/Adds another line to house rules to specify something that should be common sense.


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I swear there was a debate between JM and SKR a while ago about [evil] spells actually being evil. It's like watching the reruns :D


Cheapy wrote:
I swear there was a debate between JM and SKR a while ago about [evil] spells actually being evil. It's like watching the reruns :D

Yeah except in this case it's reversed.

Funny.

-James

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