Blink Dog Express


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


3 people marked this as a favorite.

One of my players just took a Blink Dog as his cohort with Leadership. We then realised that with an at-will quickened dimension door (at CL 7), the blink dog could travel 680 feet as a swift action each round. Turning that from feet/round into MPH gives a speed of 77.2 MPH. This doesn't factor in the double move (+80'/round -> 86 MPH) or run (+160'/round -> 95.5 MPH) the blink dog can make between blinks.

I'm pretty certain this makes blink dogs the fastest creatures on Golarion, hands down. And because it's a spell-like ability, they can do it all day without getting tired. Obviously, it's not as fast as communication via magic, but it certainly can do a lot for ordinary communications. As a Mdium creature with a strength of 12, a blink dog can carry 43 pounds of stuff in saddlebags. That's a lot of paper notes or small valuables. Plus, blink dogs are generally LG, so you can trust them with your stuff, and they're never in one spot more than 6 seconds (1 round), so they're really hard to ambush and waylay.

All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?


Bobson wrote:

One of my players just took a Blink Dog as his cohort with Leadership. We then realised that with an at-will quickened dimension door (at CL 7), the blink dog could travel 680 feet as a swift action each round. Turning that from feet/round into MPH gives a speed of 77.2 MPH. This doesn't factor in the double move (+80'/round -> 86 MPH) or run (+160'/round -> 95.5 MPH) the blink dog can make between blinks.

I'm pretty certain this makes blink dogs the fastest creatures on Golarion, hands down. And because it's a spell-like ability, they can do it all day without getting tired. Obviously, it's not as fast as communication via magic, but it certainly can do a lot for ordinary communications. As a Mdium creature with a strength of 12, a blink dog can carry 43 pounds of stuff in saddlebags. That's a lot of paper notes or small valuables. Plus, blink dogs are generally LG, so you can trust them with your stuff, and they're never in one spot more than 6 seconds (1 round), so they're really hard to ambush and waylay.

All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?

Pretty crazy stuff. I'm glad he actually found something worthwhile and inconsistent like that.

Makes me want a Blink Dog.


trade and crafting is broken, currently as per RAW there is no way a merchant could actually turn a profit


Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
trade and crafting is broken, currently as per RAW there is no way a merchant could actually turn a profit

...

Misclick wrong thread?

To OP: I so want to make a setting with a blink dog messenger service now. Maybe with gripplis alchemists giving the assist. :)

Greg


Greg Wasson wrote:

I so want to make a setting with a blink dog messenger service now.

Greg

Strange, I want to play a halfling mounted archer with a blink dog as my mount.


Greg Wasson wrote:
Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
trade and crafting is broken, currently as per RAW there is no way a merchant could actually turn a profit

...

Misclick wrong thread?

To OP: I so want to make a setting with a blink dog messenger service now. Maybe with gripplis alchemists giving the assist. :)

Greg

no misclick: "All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail? "

mail is like trading, the mail transporters and handlers wouldn't turn a profit


Yebng wrote:
Greg Wasson wrote:

I so want to make a setting with a blink dog messenger service now.

Greg

Strange, I want to play a halfling mounted archer with a blink dog as my mount.

do that with Mighty Godling class levels and take Horse Lord line of divine traits, then it will be able to even fly!


Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
Greg Wasson wrote:
Ryu Kaijitsu wrote:
trade and crafting is broken, currently as per RAW there is no way a merchant could actually turn a profit

...

Misclick wrong thread?

To OP: I so want to make a setting with a blink dog messenger service now. Maybe with gripplis alchemists giving the assist. :)

Greg

no misclick: "All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail? "

mail is like trading, the mail transporters and handlers wouldn't turn a profit

I don't follow. Assuming 1 sp per page of letter, 5 pounds per ream (500 pages) of modern-ish paper, and the above carry limit, a blink dog can carry 4500 pages worth on a trip easily. Obviously, the paper would probably be somewhat hevier, and there would be all the cases and bindings and such, but you can easily assume 2000 pages at 1 sp per page. That's 200 gold from a single one-way trip, which is easily enough to pay for a night's stay in a good inn (2 gp) and a staff of extremely well-paid hirelings on each end (1 gp per day per hireling, assume 3 on each end) and still turn a hefty profit. Obviously, this assumes that a one-way trip can be made in a day, but travelling at a constant 77 mph for 12 hours gives you 924 miles of range. That's far enough to get from NYC to Florida, or LA to Seattle in a single (long) day. And that's assuming the blink dog doesn't do anything but teleport.

Shadow Lodge

Bobson wrote:
All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?

Because it doesn't fit the narrative.


All craft feats and skills are either extremely time consuming or overpriced or both, and you can sell things off only at half the base value, which means the value of what you can sell a magic sword you made at equals the actual costs of making it, ergo no profit.

Anything that is not about crafting is a profession skill as per rules, what means no matter how much mail you would deliver with a blink dog, you would still just get a single profession roll to determinate the resulting income, you may get a bit of bonus on that roll though

don't think I like it this way though, I would love to be able to play as a traveling merchant or a "Post Bee" that is more than just a flavor title/job


To all you who are talking about mounts, don't forget that a blink dog's Dimension Door ability is specifically restricted to "self only".

.

.

Bobson wrote:
All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?

Why would the Blink Dogs participate in that arrangement? They're as smart as people, generally somewhat wiser, and probably have little to no interest in the business interests of two-leggers of dubious morals. (Most blink dogs are Lawful Good, and most people are not!)

It's the same reason that human (or demihuman) armies don't ride swarms of pegasi or dragons, and demihuman cities aren't all build by stone giants. The demihumans are not in charge!


Blueluck wrote:

To all you who are talking about mounts, don't forget that a blink dog's Dimension Door ability is specifically restricted to "self only".

.

.

Bobson wrote:
All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?

Why would the Blink Dogs participate in that arrangement? They're as smart as people, generally somewhat wiser, and probably have little to no interest in the business interests of two-leggers of dubious morals. (Most blink dogs are Lawful Good, and most people are not!)

It's the same reason that human (or demihuman) armies don't ride swarms of pegasi or dragons, and demihuman cities aren't all build by stone giants. The demihumans are not in charge!

I suppose it comes down to what motivates a blink dog. Depending on their overall inclination, they could be paid, or simply provided for, or they could feel that they're providing an important service, or simply because they want to race each other and someone convinced them to do it this way.

Even if none of the above apply, it's still conceivable that churces of LG deities could have blink dog messengers.


joriandrake wrote:
All craft feats and skills are either extremely time consuming or overpriced or both, and you can sell things off only at half the base value, which means the value of what you can sell a magic sword you made at equals the actual costs of making it, ergo no profit.

So does that mean that if I want to buy something I only need to pay the person selling it half the base value? Or that half the money I pay him simply disappears as it falls from my hand into his? That would have a rather deflationary effect on the economy!

No, the "sell for half" rule only applies to adventurers.


joriandrake wrote:

All craft feats and skills are either extremely time consuming or overpriced or both, and you can sell things off only at half the base value, which means the value of what you can sell a magic sword you made at equals the actual costs of making it, ergo no profit.

Anything that is not about crafting is a profession skill as per rules, what means no matter how much mail you would deliver with a blink dog, you would still just get a single profession roll to determinate the resulting income, you may get a bit of bonus on that roll though

don't think I like it this way though, I would love to be able to play as a traveling merchant or a "Post Bee" that is more than just a flavor title/job

The mechanics of the game are created in a way that a crafting feat does not equal infinite wealth. That's why PCs can only sell stuff at half price. It's completely a metagame aspect, and rightly so - sure, it breaks some verisimilitude, but that's going to happen in any RPG.


Bobson wrote:
joriandrake wrote:
All craft feats and skills are either extremely time consuming or overpriced or both, and you can sell things off only at half the base value, which means the value of what you can sell a magic sword you made at equals the actual costs of making it, ergo no profit.

So does that mean that if I want to buy something I only need to pay the person selling it half the base value? Or that half the money I pay him simply disappears as it falls from my hand into his? That would have a rather deflationary effect on the economy!

No, the "sell for half" rule only applies to adventurers.

with other words: to all player characters


8 people marked this as a favorite.
Bobson wrote:
All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?

To paraphrase the late Douglas Adams...

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy wrote:
For instance, on the planet Golarion, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than Blink Dogs because he had achieved so much — the wheel, Absalom, wars and so on — whilst all the Blink Dogs had ever done was muck about on the plains having a good time. But conversely, the Blink Dogs had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man — for precisely the same reasons.


another_mage wrote:
Bobson wrote:
All this leads to the question: Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?

To paraphrase the late Douglas Adams...

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy wrote:
For instance, on the planet Golarion, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than Blink Dogs because he had achieved so much — the wheel, Absalom, wars and so on — whilst all the Blink Dogs had ever done was muck about on the plains having a good time. But conversely, the Blink Dogs had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man — for precisely the same reasons.

I think you just won this thread.


*nodnod*

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Bobson wrote:
Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?

A blink dog has "dimension door (self only)."

Compare to various monsters who have "greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only)."

Given that wording, a blink dog can't take objects with it when it uses dimension door.


Epic Meepo wrote:
Bobson wrote:
Why isn't Golarion's (or any other setting's) equivalent to the Pony Express to hire a whole bunch of blink dogs to carry the mail?

A blink dog has "dimension door (self only)."

Compare to various monsters who have "greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only)."

Given that wording, a blink dog can't take objects with it when it uses dimension door.

50 pounds is not the normal maximum load for greater teleport (unless you have 5 strength) so it needs to be stated. That no limit is stated for the Blink Dog's Dimension Door indicates that the writer either didn't consider the matter or assumed the normal carried objects rule and didn't think it needed to be stated.

Mirror Image is self only too, but the images don't appear naked.


"Self only" normally includes clothes and equipment.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

"Self only" is undefined in the game rules, and is thus open to GM interpretation. If a GM declares that creatures not known for using tools are unable to transport gear when using innate, self-only teleportation effects, that GM isn't overwriting any written rule.

The question posed in the OP was "why aren't blink dogs carrying mail?" The above is the simplest justification provided by the rules: blink dogs don't carry mail because the GM can interpret the rules to say blink dogs can't carry mail while using dimension door.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Interesting thought. I think the main thing "stopping it" is that blink dogs probably have better things to do in their own way of thinking than go play Pony Express.

However, being LG they could probably be pursuaded to do such things on occasion. Probably not "here take so much paper that you are /nearly/ overloaded" but more like "please take this (or these couple) of letters to the nearby kingdom, the Orcs are coming and they need to know" kinda thing.

A very nice low'ish level alternative to just having a wizard do it- especially if there is some RP involved in pursuading one to do it.
(like, if his home is in danger from said orcs too and whatever)

so while I don't think its feasible to assume they'd want to be our little messenger race I dont't think it'd be beyond reason to ask them to do so on single important occasions.

And really- who expects it to be a 72mph dog?

-S

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bobson wrote:
Even if none of the above apply, it's still conceivable that churces of LG deities could have blink dog messengers.

Celestial or fiendish-template blink dog is a summon monster III option for clerics of Nethys, so it's possible that Planar Ally versions of these critters are used as messengers and transporters of material components between cities in Nex (or other high magic societies).

Imps, Quasits, etc. would also make great couriers, able to fly as fast as a galloping horse untiringly and invisibly, ignoring need to stop and feed or rest and with little fear of most environmental conditions.

Hound Archons also fit under the 6 HD of Planar Ally, and can teleport at will. Summon monster IV can even be used to call one up for 7+ rounds, which, with greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs of items only), is more than enough time for them to teleport small deliveries across continents, at no cost to the spellcaster other than the material components for the spell. (And, like any other 'spellcasting service,' it's free when you have a spellcaster on retainer as a follower or cohort or you're the headmaster of a magical academy, high priest of a temple, merchant family that sends it's own kids off to magical school (or marries spellcasters into the family to broaden its access to magical resources), or king. Hail to the king, baby.)

Ideally, divination magic would be better at the conveyance of messages and information than conjuration, but divination tends to get overlooked when spells are being designed.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't expect this to resolve all the arguments but for my .02 on it:

Blink says:
Target you and touched objects or other touched willing creatures.

Blink Dog limits this to self only. as in- no other willing creatures touched. Otherwise you have a blink dog and his buddies going 72mph.

If they wanted a weight limit also then they could have applied one.

Keep in mind that saying they can't DD with Anything means that the Sages of the race (also listed in B2) can't carry any material components with 'em at all- even the expensive ones. While this is certainly possible I find it rather hard to believe that such would be the intent.

Rather I think it makes more sense that self only means they can't tag along the army with them and the lack of weight limitation means theyc an do exactly what the spell otherwise says: Your maximum load. It just happens that said weight can't include creatures.

-S


Set wrote:
Bobson wrote:
Even if none of the above apply, it's still conceivable that churces of LG deities could have blink dog messengers.

Celestial or fiendish-template blink dog is a summon monster III option for clerics of Nethys, so it's possible that Planar Ally versions of these critters are used as messengers and transporters of material components between cities in Nex (or other high magic societies).

Imps, Quasits, etc. would also make great couriers, able to fly as fast as a galloping horse untiringly and invisibly, ignoring need to stop and feed or rest and with little fear of most environmental conditions.

Hound Archons also fit under the 6 HD of Planar Ally, and can teleport at will. Summon monster IV can even be used to call one up for 7+ rounds, which, with greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs of items only), is more than enough time for them to teleport small deliveries across continents, at no cost to the spellcaster other than the material components for the spell. (And, like any other 'spellcasting service,' it's free when you have a spellcaster on retainer as a follower or cohort or you're the headmaster of a magical academy, high priest of a temple, merchant family that sends it's own kids off to magical school (or marries spellcasters into the family to broaden its access to magical resources), or king. Hail to the king, baby.)

Ideally, divination magic would be better at the conveyance of messages and information than conjuration, but divination tends to get overlooked when spells are being designed.

Summoned monsters can't use teleport abilities.


Vendis wrote:
joriandrake wrote:

All craft feats and skills are either extremely time consuming or overpriced or both, and you can sell things off only at half the base value, which means the value of what you can sell a magic sword you made at equals the actual costs of making it, ergo no profit.

Anything that is not about crafting is a profession skill as per rules, what means no matter how much mail you would deliver with a blink dog, you would still just get a single profession roll to determinate the resulting income, you may get a bit of bonus on that roll though

don't think I like it this way though, I would love to be able to play as a traveling merchant or a "Post Bee" that is more than just a flavor title/job

The mechanics of the game are created in a way that a crafting feat does not equal infinite wealth. That's why PCs can only sell stuff at half price. It's completely a metagame aspect, and rightly so - sure, it breaks some verisimilitude, but that's going to happen in any RPG.

I always saw it as PCs just not being established enough as merchants to get full price. Proper merchants have licenses and shops and suchwhat. PCs have an orc barbarian named Grod who kills any customers/government officials that make trouble. It's roughly the same thing, but the profits go down.

Dark Archive

wraithstrike wrote:
Summoned monsters can't use teleport abilities.

Huh, fancy that. I was going by the conjuration (summoning) stuff at the beginning of the chapter that restricted them from using their innate summoning abilities, while the spell itself adds a raft of other restrictions (worded in such a way as to imply that it applies to *all* summoned creatures, and not just those summoned by the spell, which totally contradicts p. 210). Typical exception-based design. "The summoning rules are thus." Fifty pages later. "No they're not!"

Eh. No big. Planar Ally or Planar Binding still allow for that sort of thing (just not celestial/fiendish blink dogs, since they aren't outsiders/elementals).


Set wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Summoned monsters can't use teleport abilities.

Huh, fancy that. I was going by the conjuration (summoning) stuff at the beginning of the chapter that restricted them from using their innate summoning abilities, while the spell itself adds a raft of other restrictions (worded in such a way as to imply that it applies to *all* summoned creatures, and not just those summoned by the spell, which totally contradicts p. 210). Typical exception-based design. "The summoning rules are thus." Fifty pages later. "No they're not!"

Eh. No big. Planar Ally or Planar Binding still allow for that sort of thing (just not celestial/fiendish blink dogs, since they aren't outsiders/elementals).

I think I only found out about it within the last year. I was surprised since the monsters can't take anyone with them anyway.


Horizon Walker got at will dimension door in 3.5 (the removal in the PF version was uneeded, but another topic). It wasn't broken in the slightest because wizards did it forever ago and it is gained around the level melee starts feeling the effects of no inherit mobility boosters (like mages have fly and wind walk).

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Blink Dog Express All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion