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Ok, so I've got a bunch of semi-related questions involving Monk Vows and how they interact with specific magic items and spells.
So, I'm trying to figure out a new build path for a PFS character of mine to take advantage of what he's got and what I want him to be capable of doing, and a few thoughts have crossed my mind. Taking levels of monk would be a great way to get there, would fit his flavor if done right, and could lead to all sorts of entertaining shenanigans.
Mostly I'm looking at these vows as a fun and entertaining ways to add even more wackiness to the Dandy Devil's (Tiefling Fighter/Magus/potentially Monk) character.
Most of the vows wouldn't fit with his swashbuckling, flamboyant, ways (Silence, no freakin' way!), but there were two that I thought could work; namely the Vow of Cleanliness and the Vow of Fasting.
My questions then become, how do those vows work with certain magical things?
The monk eats nothing but rice (or a similar bland, staple food) and drinks nothing but water. On certain days (usually once per month or on a religious holiday), he may eat a small portion of other simple, bland food to maintain proper nutrition. The monk cannot use tobacco, drugs, potions, alchemical items requiring eating or drinking, or any other thing that could be considered a food or beverage. A monk with this vow increases his ki pool by 1 ki point for every 6 monk levels (minimum +1).
He already has the clear spindle Ioun Stone, which sustains a creature without having to eat or drink. That would fit well with the Vow of Fasting, I think, allowing the character to take the vow to a new level and simply refrain from consuming anything unless absolutely necessary to survival (Food/water wise, not potions).
Speaking of potions, if the character with this vow were to fall unconscious and start bleeding out and an ally dumped a potion of healing down his throat, would that break his vow since he didn't drink it knowingly or willingly? (I as a player won't encourage others to do so either way, preferring them to come up with creative solutions for fun and profit???)
Also, the vow states that the food/drink must be bland. Does this mean that if he used Prestidigitation to flavor the food or drink that he would be willfully breaking his vow?
A monk undertaking this vow must wash daily. He must change into fresh clothes daily or shortly after his robes become dirty. His appearance must be kept immaculate, including either neatly braiding or shaving off his hair (and, for male monks, maintaining a clean-shaven face). His vow forbids him from willingly touching the filthy, diseased, dead, or undead (though he may attempt to cleanse or heal those suffering from disease), though using manufactured weapons to attack these creatures is allowed. A monk with this vow increases his ki pool by 1 ki point for every 5 monk levels (minimum +1).
This one really fits the character, considering how much he absolutely hates to get all messy/gross. Thankfully this one has the caveat about not willingly touching gross things. However, does descending into a sewer and walking along the walkways there count as breaking his vow since he's wearing boots and it wouldn't touch his skin? What about walking across a fungus/moss covered cave floor?
If it would, what about using the Floating Disk spell? Could he just ride one of those to avoid having to touch the ground? If he floated over a pressure-plate triggered trap I'd assume it wouldn't trigger it, but what about over a camoflaged pit trap? How would standing on the disk while fighting work? Would he have to make Acrobatics checks to avoid falling off?
What about a Necklace of Adaptation? It states it surrounds the wearer in a shell of breathable air, so would that keep the filth out if he had to walk through a sewer?
Unusual questions, I know, but inquiring minds (namely mine) need to know!
The monk eats nothing but rice (or a similar bland, staple food) and drinks nothing but water. On certain days (usually once per month or on a religious holiday), he may eat a small portion of other simple, bland food to maintain proper nutrition. The monk cannot use tobacco, drugs, potions, alchemical items requiring eating or drinking, or any other thing that could be considered a food or beverage. A monk with this vow increases his ki pool by 1 ki point for every 6 monk levels (minimum +1).He already has the clear spindle Ioun Stone, which sustains a creature without having to eat or drink. That would fit well with the Vow of Fasting, I think, allowing the character to take the vow to a new level and simply refrain from consuming anything unless absolutely necessary to survival (Food/water wise, not potions).
Speaking of potions, if the character with this vow were to fall unconscious and start bleeding out and an ally dumped a potion of healing down his throat, would that break his vow since he didn't drink it knowingly or willingly? (I as a player won't encourage others to do so either way, preferring them to come up with creative solutions for fun and profit???)
Also, the vow states that the food/drink must be bland. Does this mean that if he used Prestidigitation to flavor the food or drink that he would be willfully breaking his vow?
The header of the Monk Vows section states "If a monk knowingly and willingly breaks his vow...". If you are unconscious, you are neither knowingly or willingly doing anything. So if your partymates slam a potion down your throat while you are bleeding to death, you didn't violate your vow.
However, as a GM, I would rule that if you didn't admonish your partymates for it and request specifically that they respect your vow and not do that again that you are then willingly and knowingly violating your vow. You are basically agreeing to their action. I'd give the players a warning the second time it happens, and call the vow broken on the third time.
Also, yes. If your monk uses prestidigitation to make his food taste not-bland, that he was violating his vow just as surely as if he added pepper or sage to his food.
A monk undertaking this vow must wash daily. He must change into fresh clothes daily or shortly after his robes become dirty. His appearance must be kept immaculate, including either neatly braiding or shaving off his hair (and, for male monks, maintaining a clean-shaven face). His vow forbids him from willingly touching the filthy, diseased, dead, or undead (though he may attempt to cleanse or heal those suffering from disease), though using manufactured weapons to attack these creatures is allowed. A monk with this vow increases his ki pool by 1 ki point for every 5 monk levels (minimum +1).This one really fits the character, considering how much he absolutely hates to get all messy/gross. Thankfully this one has the caveat about not willingly touching gross things. However, does descending into a sewer and walking along the walkways there count as breaking his vow since he's wearing boots and it wouldn't touch his skin? What about walking across a fungus/moss covered cave floor?
If he went into the sewer without protest, yes, he's breaking the vow. If he protests, then maybe not. If he touches his scummy boots, he's breaking his vow. If he falls over in the sewer, he breaks his vow. Going into the sewer probably doesn't break his vow, just the same as a paladin with an oath of chastity can probably go into a brothel, but the risk of breaking the vow increases exponentially.
If it would, what about using the Floating Disk spell? Could he just ride one of those to avoid having to touch the ground? If he floated over a pressure-plate triggered trap I'd assume it wouldn't trigger it, but what about over a camoflaged pit trap? How would standing on the disk while fighting work? Would he have to make Acrobatics checks to avoid falling off?
If the disk can hold him, I'd use the rules in levitation for any related checks. I'd rule that being on a floating disk still gets him exposed to dripping sewer water and hanging scummy moss or whatever. Also, falling off the disk in combat is a possibility, so vow breaking is still at high risk.
What about a Necklace of Adaptation? It states it surrounds the wearer in a shell of breathable air, so would that keep the filth out if he had to walk through a sewer?
Since the shell doesn't prevent object from entering the space, it won't make you immune to the scumminess of the sewer. Dripping water, rats, hanging moss, etc. can still touch the monk. Tripping still brings him in contact with the gross floor or putrid water. The shell would probably keep him clear of airborne contaminates (such as dust or vapors) but not larger particles (such as water droplets or falling debris).
Also, slightly less weird question, if a character has a spell-like ability, can they then use spell completion items (wands/scrolls) of that spell without having to make a UMD check?
In order to not need UMD for a spell completion item, the spell must be on your spell list. SLAs do not add to anyone's spell lists. So you need to UMD to use the item.
Also, some Style feats modify your Stunning Fist ability. I'm assuming that if you take an Archetype that replaces that, the style feat's modification to Stunning Fist doesn't apply to the new feat gained (Such as Touch of Serenity or Punishing Kick), right?
If you don't have Stunning Fist, how would modifying it do anything? The feats specifically call out Stunning Fist and those feats came out after the archetypes that modify Stunning Fist, so they could have said "(or an attack type gained in place of Stunning Fist from an archetype)" or something similar.
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I figured as much on pretty much all of those points, my only problem is that in some adventures a party has to go somewhere that's pretty gross or the mission is failed and I don't want to be too much of a hassle for my party (Nor do I want to have to auto-fail the mission just to keep from losing a class feature).
If you know you have to do things that would violate your vows, you can drop the vow (and the bonus ki points), but you can't take the vow back up again. If you (as a player) know that it would make the group play not functional because of some optional character choices, it's sort of your prerogative to not make those choices.
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If you know you have to do things that would violate your vows, you can drop the vow (and the bonus ki points), but you can't take the vow back up again. If you (as a player) know that it would make the group play not functional because of some optional character choices, it's sort of your prerogative to not make those choices.
I do understand that it's my duty as an OP player to not make characters that would be an outright detriment to the party. I'm still going to be fine without the extra ki point, and honestly the extra ki wasn't really the reason for taking the vows, it was just for funsies. I'll probably still take the fasting one since that should be real easy for him to work with and why not gain the extra ki point if he's already going to be doing the things that would constitute a vow of fasting?
In all honesty, he's probably just going to make up all sorts of vows (with no in-game mechanical benefit) just to mess with people/get out of doing some things. Why? Because he's a manipulative little t@#@. Good fun.
I think if going into a sewer is needed for the greater good, the monk could do it. Just make sure to pack plenty of soapy water into you handy haversack, and lots of changes of robes in a water-proof bag. Then try your best to not fall into the muck. If you do, then get clean ASAP.
I think the image of an immaculately clean monk in a white robe walking through a place filled with dirt and grime is kinda cool. You can invest in a glamoured robe so that it always looks clean.
I think if going into a sewer is needed for the greater good, the monk could do it. Just make sure to pack plenty of soapy water into you handy haversack, and lots of changes of robes in a water-proof bag. Then try your best to not fall into the muck. If you do, then get clean ASAP.
I think the image of an immaculately clean monk in a white robe walking through a place filled with dirt and grime is kinda cool. You can invest in a glamoured robe so that it always looks clean.
Monks aren't paladins. They are just lawful (even lawful evil). They hold to the letter first, then the moral judgements next. At least that's how I see them, especially with regards to vows. Doing it "for the greater good" only makes sense if that's what his alignment/religion/order/vow suggests.
@Jack-of-Blades: If it's just flavor, then a "vow of not liking icky places" or a "vow of always taking a bath" are totally fine. In regards to the mechanical benefits, you've got to follow the rules. Nothing says you can't take an incredibly similar vow but forgo the mechanical benefit to avoid the mechanical penalty.
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I think if going into a sewer is needed for the greater good, the monk could do it. Just make sure to pack plenty of soapy water into you handy haversack, and lots of changes of robes in a water-proof bag. Then try your best to not fall into the muck. If you do, then get clean ASAP.
I think the image of an immaculately clean monk in a white robe walking through a place filled with dirt and grime is kinda cool. You can invest in a glamoured robe so that it always looks clean.
Monks aren't paladins. They are just lawful (even lawful evil). They hold to the letter first, then the moral judgements next. At least that's how I see them, especially with regards to vows. Doing it "for the greater good" only makes sense if that's what his alignment/religion/order/vow suggests.
@Jack-of-Blades: If it's just flavor, then a "vow of not liking icky places" or a "vow of always taking a bath" are totally fine. In regards to the mechanical benefits, you've got to follow the rules. Nothing says you can't take an incredibly similar vow but forgo the mechanical benefit to avoid the mechanical penalty.
Yeah. By all rights, this character should be Lawful Evil, but since there's no evil allowed in PFS, I had to make him Lawful Neutral. He is definitely more about the laws and the rules than the "Greater Good", what with him being a worshiper of Asmodeus.
Yeah, it just would've been nice to gain a benefit. In the end, however, it shouldn't be a big deal if I get one more ki point or not.
If he's so incredibaly lawful and his rightful employers, the Society, gives him an order, he can't just say "Ewww sewers are unclean. Find someone else." He has to do the best he can.