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Here's a classic

Ring of Invisibility: When you put this ring on, it turns invisible.

This made me laugh way too hard!

I know it's an old topic, but it seems that the vow of cleanliness is the wrong thing for this character. It would appear that it's more of a character flaw than anything. Putting it this way wouldn't exclude him from doing certain things and breaking his vow. Of course he might strenously object to doing them, and try to find any excuse to not do it, but wouldn't be precluded from doing them.

I foresee both of those getting old REAL fast.

Could be fun for a one shot but any ongoing campaign, most likely, the Bard is going to run out of songs you (and they) want to hear, and the Paladin will be ready to shove the KJV up thine arse.

True, but it would be great for a one shot!

Wow some of these house rules are awesome!! I've implemented some into my games and they worked out great.

Some of those ones I use:
Stacking Critical multiplier: Each successful 20 on the confirmation role adds 1X to damage. Same with fumbles.

No tracking of food/spell components: Unless RP and campaign situations call for them, I ignor them.

No Weight tracking: Keeping track of the weight of item carried in a backpack was tedious and irritating. I went with a typical video game RPG style. All PCs start out with a 10-slot backpack and can buy larger ones, if available. Larger items, like polearms, take 2 slots.

I was also thinking of some RP house rules based on class but it's still in the works. So far I've got:

Bards: Players should either sing, or play the song via ipod, for their spells. The song chosen must be similiar to the spell either by song title, theme, or chorus. (Stole this one from here http://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/14fi7o/stealing_immortality_part_one/)

Paladins: Should speak in the style of that found in the King James version of the bible.

This are just some ideas I am tossing around to to bring a different level of RP into the game. Of course bonus EXP, and maybe loot, will be given to the players for doing these. Any other suggestions would be awesome!

Gotcha, thats what I thought. Now what about Tiers? In the adventure, it shows 2 different encounters to choose from Tiers 1-2, and Tiers 4-5. Tiers 4-5 have a higher CR and stronger monsters. I've look into various posts about Tiers and they all seem to point to the type of classes involved, regardless of current level. It seems to me that with characters starting at level 1, Tier 1-2 would be the best to use, then progressing to Tiers 4-5 as they leveled up accordingly. Would this be a feasible conversion of the Tiers? Or should I just scrap the PFS adventure and look at another adventure path? one designed for new players who have no idea what they are doing? I'm not dead set on this paticular adventure, but looking for something that will help my new players be able to learn how the game is played, and (most importantly) have fun.

BTW, I was recommened Citadel of Flame as a good starting point that focused on game mechanics. With mostly completely new players, (all but one, and then still very beginner) it seems to me like a good idea.

Thanks for all the input!! Your suggestions have been very helpful! After careful, and much deliberation, I have decided to have all my players characters (from this group anyway) meet an untimely demise. It's been over a year since our last session, (real life got in the way, school, back surgery, ect.)and I feel it would be better for myself and my players to start over from scratch. This time around I am going to work on reenforcing the basic concepts and rules, and build up to RP. In hindsight, I may have been too lenient as a GM, and allowed the players to run an open sandbox game much too soon. The game was quickly getting out of control and not everyone was enjoying themselves, which is the whole point of the game anyway. I don't want to seem like a jerk, but if some of my players don't want to try to learn the game, and follow some of the basic tenants of the game, thus ruining it for myself and others, they have no place at my table. I understand that a lot of this is my fault as a GM, but the advice given has been very valuable. Thank you again!

Hello, I'm fairly new to GMing and have some questions. I've been a player in a few sessions, and have successfully GM'd the beginners box adventure a couple of times and would like to branch out into some of the adventure modules and paths. I'm looking over "The Citadel of Flame" (upon recommendation) path and it says nothing about XP. In the beginners box GM guide it had an XP amount based on the encounters (combat or otherwise) listed, but the adventure paths/modules I've looked at don't. I like the idea of XP, and so do my players. Reading the forums about XP the general opinion is, "do what works for you". Now in the case of "The citadel of flame" do I award XP based on the CR of the encounter? Or is there another method I'm not aware of? I understand the "The Citadel of Flame" is a Pathfinder Society adventure, and as such XP is not generally counted, unless I'm badly mistaken. I'm not sure if it being a PFS adventure it played differently then your typical adventure or not. Also are there any "conversions", if you will, I need to take into account when adapting this adventure for home play?

I have found a smaller group of more like minded people with no experience in MMOs or any other type RPG (it actually took about 6 months to convince them that it wasn't for nerds :P) and have had much better results with them. None of the same types of mistakes.(mistakes were made of course). My main concern is having the MMO players taking over and pushing my non-MMO players in the same group off to the side with the MMO play style. It's happened MANY times, to the point where one of the non-MMO players not having any fun and wanting to quit. She plays a cleric, and in MMO terms, clerics are generally weaker, thus resulting in relegating her into a strictly healer and buff role, like many MMO's. But in the case of PF, clerics make wonderful tanks/meat shields, and can hold thier own in melee combat. I know that's a seperate issue with her not being assertive and playing her character her way, but the point remains, the MMO players can't seem to grasp the fact that this isn't an MMO. They enjoy the game and I don't want to be a jerk or a stickler for following rules, I get that there needs to be some leiway, and driving the point home with consequences seems like a good way to make that stick. And these aren't any of the complicated rules either, basic melee rules, basic line of sight rules, basic "You are not invisible, so you can't sneak into a brightly lit hallway with 3 guards watching the door and back stab them" rules.

Again, I don't mean the OP should just give in and use their expectations of the rules.

I just think punishment for a simple misunderstanding of the rules shouldn't be the first thing to try. I for once would be pretty annoyed if I started playing a game with unknown rules, misunderstanding one of them and geting screwed (not knowing that standing up provokes an AoO) and/or killed (dragon's breath) as a result. There's a difference between "Okay, you 'stealthed' down the brightly lit hallway, the kobolds saw you and raised the alarm." and "The hallway is brightly lit, you will probably be seen when entering this way, no matter how sneaky you are."

I like to think I am fairly lienient when it comes to misunderstanding of the rules. As a beginner GM I don't know all the rules fully myself.

Maybe I should put this player in "the worst player ever" catagory :P Maybe I'm not explaining stealth clearly enough, but no matter what I've told him, stealth is NOT invisibilty, and at least requires some sort of cover, unless he's trying to sneak up on a distracted monster who's not paying attention or sleeping.

OP, are you running with a map and grid? Seems to me if they can see they are twenty feet away and they say, "I attack it with my dagger," you can simply reply with, "OK, you swing your dagger, but as you can see you are 20' away from the monster and you miss. Now it is Bill's turn."

Or, "You cast the fireball. Unfortunately, you are standing behind Bill. It explodes into his back and you all take 6d6 fire damage. Make your reflex save."

I don't see how players could not adjust their play styles accordingly, unless they just want to d*** around.

Always make sure their actions have consequenses. If the rogue says, "I sneak into the brightly lit empty room that the dragon is in," say, "Ok, roll your stealth. All right, you got a 28 with your roll of 20! Unfortunately, because you aren't hiding behind anything that would grant you cover and there are no shadows to conceal yourself, the dragon looks at you, chuckles, and blasts you with his fire breath. Make a reflex save."

If dead PCs don't encourage them to pay attention to the rules (both of the game and of life in general), then they are playing the way they want to play, Keystone Kops-style, which is fine, but is sounds like you don't want to play that way, in which case you may want to find more like-minded players.

Your responsibility as the GM is to allow the players to make their own decisions, but also to allow them to have both positive AND negative (realistic) repurcussions because of their actions. Otherwise, what is the point of playing?

Yes we are using a grid, and it's VERY clear that they are 20ft. away. I am guessing they are getting caught up the excitment of battle and forget to move.

As far as the sneak, the thief is convinced he has a "sneak mode" even though I've explained several times there is no "sneak mode" and none of his abilities allow him to do that.

And I agree, having consquences for actions would help my players think about what they are doing. And having played several sessions already, they should know better about the simple mechanics of stuff like melee combat.

Edit: I misspoke. I'm not running a society game. I meant that I am fairly new to Pathfinder (in general). I didn't realize that society was something different. I have been doing "home games" and have had ALOT more freedom to change things up. I am a noob to this whole thing. Please forgive me :P

yax51 wrote:

I understand letting the players have the freedom to play in their own way, but how do I balance that with (I would think a reasonable expecation) to at least act in a more "realistic" way? I don't think I should be able to let them melee attack with a dagger from 20ft away (happens al

Someone pointed out above that you are specifically asking about a Society game, which requires that you run the game according to the standard rules. So My first suggestion would be to run a "home game" (i.e. Pathfinder according to whatever rules you guys can agree to).

As far as playing "correctly" be sure to simply coach them. Explain to them that with need to move into hand to hand range before they can melee. If they forgot to do it one time just give them a chance to take the turn over.

Don't be afraid to change the rules to make the game play more like an MMO. You can easily jettison little things like spell components, encumbrance, etc or even large things like rest and recovery if it makes it more fun for the players.

I wouldn't worry about having players play in character at all. It is something that might happen naturally over time as you play or maybe the players never develop the knack for it. Pathfinder is perfectly fun as a tactical board game. MMO players will love the added freedom to problem solve that the game provides.

Have fun.

I misspoke. I meant that I was new to Pathfinder RPG, and am running home games. I didn't realize that society was a different thing. I'm a noob.

Yeah, I've already taken out encumberance, and spell components, but we've decided to leave in rest and recovery. They've taken to the rest and recovery very well. Even to setting up watches and and shifts.

The single most important thing to me is to be willing to learn on the job as a GM. Despite (and perhaps because of) the fact that I've been playing since 3.0 dropped, I still get a lot of mechanical help from players. I forget things, get things backwards, etc. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. Just don't be a jerk and try to making "rulings" when the rules are quite clear on the topic.

Agreed. I do try to be lienieant and not make rulings that are condratictory to the rules, and be fair with my judgements, even when they may break my adventure.

Trying to get players who are used to MMOs without a boardgame background can be a bit daunting. I would suggest you focus on trying to improve either their roleplaying or their "gaming" first as trying to do both, especially as a new GM, can be incredibly challenging.

RP: For people coming from a heavy MMO background, getting into RP can be difficult. The majority of MMO players don't get into the "roleplay" of their character; instead they're just fantastic extensions of themselves. It puts more of a burden on you, but you'll need to provide a lot of the atmospheric interactions and interesting NPCs to converse with.

One thought that comes to mind is having your players put aside their main characters a session and play We Be Goblins. It's incredibly flavorful and its hard not to get into the Roleplaying an insane goblin.

Gaming: An alternate is to play scenarios that are a bit more "dungeon crawl" to focus on getting down mechanics first. Citadel of the Flame is a good start and I'm sure there's a few others. Anything with Feast, Matrimony, or other social gathering probably would be lost on your players. As for "board" related issues, getting them to be emotionally invested in their miniature is useful. It helps if they get a feel that it is *their* character. You can still help out with movement as necessary.

Hmmm That actually sounds like a good idea. Run some scenarios and shorter adventures to get them used to the mechanics, slowly work on RP in the meantime BEFORE launching a longer adventure path might be the way to go. Thanks!

I guess someone should also point out that there nothing that prevents you from playing the game the way that your players want to. The best thing about Pathfinder its is adaptability -- something that an MMORPG lacks. You could simply give in and "house rule" that you players abilities play the way that they expect them to.

I currently run a game for a bunch of teenagers that were raised on games like WoW. I adapted the game to play more like warcraft and they love it. Eventually they even liked the game enough to read the rules. And over time they came to see the value of the standard way of playing.

I wouldn't try to force the "in character" stuff on them. They will get there eventually.

I understand letting the players have the freedom to play in their own way, but how do I balance that with (I would think a reasonable expecation) to at least act in a more "realistic" way? I don't think I should be able to let them melee attack with a dagger from 20ft away (happens almost every encounter, they forget about movement and range) On that note, I'm more then willing to accomadate them in various situations, if they can come up with a reasonable explaination for their actions.

As far as "in character" stuff, I can live without it, but I think it would bring a more enjoyable experience for my players, if they can get used to the idea.

Nick: Good idea, I'll try that. I suppose I could reenforce the mechanics and rash actions with consequences that would make them think twice about trying to do something "special", like digging in a orc latrine to find treasure. (true story) Thanks!!

Finlanderboy: Great idea!! know where I can find some? :P

I'm fairly new to PFS, as both a player and GM and love it! I've only GM'd a few sessions so far, but seem to be having a difficult time with my players. I learned early that allowing alcohol during sessions is a VERY BAD idea. However thats not my main complaint. The main problem is most of my players are veteren MMORPG players (WoW, Everquest, ect.)and don't understand many of the tabletop dynamics. For example, my thief declares he is in "sneak mode" and will try to flank a monster that he's already engaged in combat. Or will try to walk into an open room to scout, and of course gets spotted and attacked, but will argue that he's declared he's always in "sneak mode". Also line of sight, and moving their character token seems to be lost on them. I have players trying to melee attack a monster from 20ft. away, or trying to cast a fireball at a monster while standing directly behind another player. I can't seem to get my players to understand that real world physics apply. And how do I get my players to RP? there is NO RP involved with these players. I don't want them to get crazy with it, but they rely heavily on metagaming and I would like to break them of that. I understand they should RP to the level they are comfortable with, but I can't seeem to get them to do it at all. What am I doing wrong? What steps can I take as a GM to encourage RP, or help them understand the tabletop dynamics better? or should I just try to find new players? :P