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I wanted to know how treasure works in Pathfinder Society (as a new GM and event coordinator by odd circumstances).
First, if I find a piece of Treasure (ex: a Wand of Knocking, 12 Charges) in a treasure chest, then clearly I get that Wand of Knocking on my Chronicle Sheet if and only if that Wand is also listed on the respective Chronicle Sheet for that scenario. My character will have future access to purchasing a Wand of that exact type in the future from my faction.
However, does someone, at the present, get to keep the Wand of Knocking that we actually found in the Treasure Chest in that scenario? Basically, does one person get to keep the treasure, while the others will have to buy it if they want it themselves later on?
Second, I want to know how looting works. If I take out an enemy, evil Sorcerer, and find she has a Wand of Burning Hands, 5 Charges (which is not listed in the Chronicle Sheet, but is listed in her Inventory), can one of us take the Wand and add it to our Character’s Inventory?
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You never ever ever get to keep items that you find beyond the end of the scenario. Buy it or it goes POOF!
Note that found consumables (healing potions, etc) can be used during the scenario, but unused ones will still go POOF!
This.
You can use the items all you want during the Scenario but its assumed everything gets sold off for your cash at the end of a scenario. you can then 'buy back' the items on the sheets if you so desire.
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I wanted to know how treasure works in Pathfinder Society (as a new GM and event coordinator by odd circumstances).
...
Second, I want to know how looting works. If I take out an enemy, evil Sorcerer, and find she has a Wand of Burning Hands, 5 Charges (which is not listed in the Chronicle Sheet, but is listed in her Inventory), can one of us take the Wand and add it to our Character’s Inventory?
I generally don't allow the players to loot the bodies. The enemies have a great deal of loot (weapons, armor, consumables, etc.), and dividing the spoils takes way too much time when my goal is to end the slot on time.
If time were not a factor (such as in an Adventure Path), then I would definitely reconsider the looting.
-Perry
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I generally don't allow the players to loot the bodies.
Well, you need to. The scenarios are written with the assumption that PCs have access to the items/consumables possessed by defeated enemies. In fact, the "Reward Creative Solutions" section of the Guide even says that if the players manage to roleplay past a fight, you should give them the loot in a treasure chest or something.
You are not allowed to forbid the PCs from acquiring listed items.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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That makes sense. But is everything sold off and then the "money" split among the party members?
Well, describing it like that helps with some people's sense of immersion, but technically what really happens is this:
Any found items are removed from your possession at the end of the scenario, for whatever reason you'd prefer to imagine.
Each encounter or event has a listed GP reward that factors into the total on the chronicle sheet. As long as you don't botch an encounter in some egregious way, you get the gold listed on the chronicle sheet for whatever in-character reason you'd like to think up.
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That makes sense. But is everything sold off and then the "money" split among the party members?
It is in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Play, page 17:
Pathfinder Society Organized Play is unlike a standard roleplaying experience. Instead of dividing up treasure among your fellow party members, every Pathfinder has access to any piece of loot available in a scenario. Every Chronicle sheet lists all of the loot that can be found during the scenario, with the exception of minor items available to every Pathfinder Society character. After the scenario, the GM checks which items you and your fellow Pathfinders discovered, and each of these items immediately becomes available for purchase by all party members. Items not discovered in play are blacked out or lined out by the GM. In addition, every player who completes a scenario receives a set amount of gold for the scenario that she may spend to acquire items.
And page 18:
At the completion of each encounter during a scenario, your GM will award each player a set amount of gold that reflects that player’s share of the potential loot (though not all encounters will have treasure rewards). This gold piece total can fluctuate depending on what you accomplished and how you accomplished it. We assume that you have enough bags, backpacks, or muscle to haul around the loot you find or, in the case of an urban scenario, immediate access to markets and bazaars where you can sell your goods.
If you have not downloaded and read the Guide, you really should.
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I generally don't allow the players to loot the bodies. The enemies have a great deal of loot (weapons, armor, consumables, etc.), and dividing the spoils takes way too much time when my goal is to end the slot on time.
This seems like a bit of a player problem. I never seem to have a problem with this. I don't spend a lot of time looting as the players know the items will go 'poof' at the end of the adventure they don't worry about every last piece of pocket lint on the goblin.
Typically the characters gear is better anyway. I just worry about consumables and items of note such as clues and McGuffins. Say "you find x, y, z" and I ask who is carrying those and move on. If there is a new player without good equipment I'll note some other useful equipment they may want to equip.
The characters should have access to these items just don't spend time dealing with details. If all else fails, make up some 3x5 or business cards with the items on them, toss em on the table at the end of the fight and let the players sort them out while you move the adventure along.
The problem comes when there is a clue or cursed item then the players can metagame "this must be important because the DM never mentions looted stuff."
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I generally don't allow the players to loot the bodies.Well, you need to. The scenarios are written with the assumption that PCs have access to the items/consumables possessed by defeated enemies. In fact, the "Reward Creative Solutions" section of the Guide even says that if the players manage to roleplay past a fight, you should give them the loot in a treasure chest or something.
You are not allowed to forbid the PCs from acquiring listed items.
The loot in a treasure chest is in reference to the gold pieces, not the gear. The loot item is in reference to the Chronicle Sheet.
The guide is very specific regarding items that appear on the Chronicle Sheet, such as a +1 Frost Longsword. Those are supposed to be allowed to be picked up off the corpse for later use. My issue is that the items on the Chronicle sheet are the only useful items that can be scavenged off the corpse, and those same items generally appear in the last combat encounter.
Everything else is pocket lint and a time sink.
Nowhere in the guide does it disallow the GM from blocking access to the pocket lint off of a corpse.
Nowhere in scenario design have I seen the writers spend any real time constructing later combats based on the recovered gear of prior combats.
For the more serious issue in PFS, if I have to choose between the criticality of recovered gear versus ending on time, the ending on time wins hands down.
If I see combat gear that could be useful, then I can see stopping the action to get that combat gear. I just don't see any useful recoverable gear prior to the last combat.
-Perry
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If I see combat gear that could be useful, then I can see stopping the action to get that combat gear. I just don't see any useful recoverable gear prior to the last combat.
So the Cure potions that thugs carry in most scenarios at low tiers are just pocket lint?
I usually don't bother listing the crappy non-masterwork studded leather or whatever unless someone asks, but it's extremely common for enemy NPCs (prior to the final fight) to be carrying useful potions that don't get listed on the chronicle sheet. Surely you don't skip past that, do you?
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If I see combat gear that could be useful, then I can see stopping the action to get that combat gear. I just don't see any useful recoverable gear prior to the last combat.So the Cure potions that thugs carry in most scenarios at low tiers are just pocket lint?
I usually don't bother listing the crappy non-masterwork studded leather or whatever unless someone asks, but it's extremely common for enemy NPCs (prior to the final fight) to be carrying useful potions that don't get listed on the chronicle sheet. Surely you don't skip past that, do you?
If the writer really wanted the PCs to have those potions, the writer shouldn't put those potions in the hands of people bound and determined to kill the PCs with everything they've got at hand.
That actually could lead to an interesting situation. Half the enemy is killed off while the party is still going strong... I could see the other half saying, "Let us live and we'll give up our potions!". Some parties I run for are so dishonorable they'll agree to the deal and then just kill the bad guys anyway. That's their karma.
The more I think about it, the better it sounds. I get to cut combat short after it's somewhat clear that it's over, and the players get some goodies. And we end on time.
-Perry
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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If the writer really wanted the PCs to have those potions, the writer shouldn't put those potions in the hands of people bound and determined to kill the PCs with everything they've got at hand.
-Perry
I'm sorry to say, I hope I don't end up playing at your table. There have been countless times we've used items scavenged from fallen foes. Potions, alchemical items, even cloaks and other magic items we've been able to ID prior to the bad guy. If someone doesn't have a cloak, and one of the foes we've dropped had a cloak of resistance +1, they can put it on. Sure they can't keep it, but it could still help in the coming fights.
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I'm sorry to say, I hope I don't end up playing at your table. There have been countless times we've used items scavenged from fallen foes. Potions, alchemical items, even cloaks and other magic items we've been able to ID prior to the bad guy. If someone doesn't have a cloak, and one of the foes we've dropped had a cloak of resistance +1, they can put it on. Sure they can't keep it, but it could still help in the coming fights.If the writer really wanted the PCs to have those potions, the writer shouldn't put those potions in the hands of people bound and determined to kill the PCs with everything they've got at hand.
-Perry
Eric,
I have played with Perry, and I think he is referring to the standard, run-of-the-mill junk you find, like 6 suits of leather armor sized for goblins, rather than any special, magical gear that is found in any of the incidental fights along the way.
Then again, in my local area, we tend to refer to "Absoloming" the bodies. Sort of the PFS version of "Greyhawking" the bodies, for you other LG vets....
If it is not described in the encounter, then it is not worth messing with and also is not included in the gold reward for each encounter. While a lot of misc stuff is worth something, this is not a home game and you are not able to make any gold off of it.
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Then again, in my local area, we tend to refer to "Absoloming" the bodies. Sort of the PFS version of "Greyhawking" the bodies, for you other LG vets....
<raises a curious eyebrow>
We used to call it "BK'ing" the body, in my home region. ;)More on topic: I, too, presume (and fervently hope) that he is referring to the standard shorstword, backpack, and other types of mundane items. The problem is, as mentioned above, is that when the DM does mention an item, it becomes abundantly clear that the item must be a faction mission McGuffin, or a plot point of some kind.
I sympathize with the position that ending time is important. Given the choice between the two, end time is the correct choice. That's the single biggest thing that I loathe about any organized play league that I've ever been in ... four hour slots cause too much streamlining, and things get thrown out of the adventure.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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As an aside, it's been my experience under most table GMs that the masterwork weapons and armor that we take off fallen foes more or less instantly changes to gold coins. There's never any discussion of loading up on the stuff. How much encumbrance is 5 suits of armor?
Well I can't quote the Guide as I can't access it from here, but I recall something along the lines of "we'll assume everyone has enough bags and crap to haul the loot, or else immediate access to markets to sell it off, so don't worry too much about it *wink wink*".
Or something like that.
Aside aside: I have had a player swap armor with a fallen enemy once. I've seen several weapons picked up by freshies. And, again, potions.
Well I can't quote the Guide as I can't access it from here, but I recall something along the lines of "we'll assume everyone has enough bags and crap to haul the loot, or else immediate access to markets to sell it off, so don't worry too much about it *wink wink*".Or something like that.
Psssst, hey Jiggy. I quoted that bit from the Guide earlier in this thread. :)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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As Rey said in this thread
Use the goodies you find along the way. The Lodge expects us to turn everything over like good little pets, and then buy back the stuff with the gold they give us. If I find a potion of cure moderate wounds that's the one that gets drank by the wounded fighter, not the one in my sash. It's a lot easier to report. "Potion bottle, empty" than "I used my potion and brought you one. Can I please buy it back?"
So always use adventure resources before your own. :-)
Director of Brand Strategy
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When a foe has gear listed on his or her statblock, that gear is assumed to be accessible by the PCs after they have defeated him. Whether it's a +1 shortsword that the rogue might want to use in place of his existing masterwork shortsword, a potion of cure light wounds that might help the fighter out if the cleric can't get to him in time, or a cloak of resistance to help out that one PC who hasn't yet bought one yet.
We don't assume that you're spending more than a few seconds telling the PCs what they found when they say they're looting the body, and if your group does spend ten minutes arguing about who's going to get the potions on the thug's body you likely have larger problems of group cohesion. It shouldn't disrupt the flow of the game for PCs to get treasure as they go, whether from a chest or from the body of a fallen enemy.
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We don't assume that you're spending more than a few seconds telling the PCs what they found when they say they're looting the body....(snip) It shouldn't disrupt the flow of the game for PCs to get treasure as they go, whether from a chest or from the body of a fallen enemy.
I don't find it disrupts the flow of the game. But, given that there are Two different skill checks (Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft, sometimes Perception as well) for each magic item to be identified, a couple of minutes is more of what I experience rather than a few seconds. That tends to be about 10 minutes of table time over the course of an adventure. YMMV.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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We don't assume that you're spending more than a few seconds telling the PCs what they found when they say they're looting the body....(snip) It shouldn't disrupt the flow of the game for PCs to get treasure as they go, whether from a chest or from the body of a fallen enemy.I don't find it disrupts the flow of the game. But, given that there are Two different skill checks (Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft, sometimes Perception as well) for each magic item to be identified, a couple of minutes is more of what I experience rather than a few seconds. That tends to be about 10 minutes of table time over the course of an adventure. YMMV.
It becomes a matter of seconds if the potions are labeled. ;)
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It becomes a matter of seconds if the potions are labeled. ;)We don't assume that you're spending more than a few seconds telling the PCs what they found when they say they're looting the body....(snip) It shouldn't disrupt the flow of the game for PCs to get treasure as they go, whether from a chest or from the body of a fallen enemy.I don't find it disrupts the flow of the game. But, given that there are Two different skill checks (Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft, sometimes Perception as well) for each magic item to be identified, a couple of minutes is more of what I experience rather than a few seconds. That tends to be about 10 minutes of table time over the course of an adventure. YMMV.
Indeed, Jiggy. I've only run a half-dozen or so scenarios and haven't seen anything indicated as labeled. When we get a campaign rule that suggests that everything is labeled, or when the mods specify that potions and other magic items are labeled, I'll be happy to follow that standard. Until then, giving characters free skill checks is akin to giving them free resources (skill ranks) and doesn't reward those who invest in those skill ranks. YMMV.
It was my understanding that all gear aquifer was donoted to the society which gives characters the option of buying them later.
Imyself was confused when I noticed several items not listed onthe the chronicle sheet only to realize all those items were in the "always available" to purchase category. Items such as the cure light wound potions/scrolls and normal and/or +1 equipment.
Upon further examination, it would seem the Max gold listed on the chronicle sheet does not include looted gold off of encounters ... is this gold lost when a scenario is completed?
Upon further examination, it would seem the Max gold listed on the chronicle sheet does not include looted gold off of encounters ... is this gold lost when a scenario is completed?
Additionally, is any mundane equipment purchased with said looted gold (or gold obtained from selling junk such as NPC gear) lost when a scenario is concluded?
I'm still a bit confused over this issue as I would assume that gold aquired during encounters (not added into the MaxGold) would still be usable during the scenario for raises or other spell castings but such a raise (during a scenario) wouldn't be listed on the chronicle sheet conditions/bought section as it didn't subtract from Max Gold amount.
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Money earned summary:
At the end of the scenario you turn over everything found to the pathfinder society.
The Pathfinder society pays you x amount of money where x is the value of all the money you found + the sell value of everything else, no more than max gold as listed on the chronicle sheet.
In theory max gold should line up with the value of everything in the scenario. In practice there are probably inconsistencies and most GMs just award max gold in most circumstances, even if the group didn't extract every gold filling from the monster.
Any consumables you consume do not alter your rewards. (I will agree that I'm a little fuzzy on the Watsonian logic here)
Anything you otherwise SPEND is subtracted from your gold value at the end. So if you take money found in the scenario and use it to cast raise dead it would show up in the bought section and subtract from the max gold amount.
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Any consumables you consume do not alter your rewards. (I will agree that I'm a little fuzzy on the Watsonian logic here)
Probably along the lines of "Being an accountant shouldn't have to be a requirement of GMing PFS"
I might be exaggerating a little there, but I wouldn't gm if I had to account for enemies/players using potions and mundane items at the end of the scenario.
"ok so three potions of CWL wounds were used by the players, and two? was it two? in the second encounter that the thugs used. Oh the tangle foot bags, how many were thrown in the third encounter?"
This might seem a stupid question regarding purchasing but as I stated in another thread, I'd like to have all my ducks in a row before I begin DMing PFS for my local game store.
I understand that you use your gold earned from scenarios/day jobs to purchase any item listed on a chronicle sheet or any of the "always available" items in the various resource books. I also understand that if an item is gained during a scenario (such as looted weapons) and said weapon is sundered/lost, you can still buy it at the end from the chronicle sheet.
My question is about always available items that you purchase during a scenario session or bring into a game (written on your character sheet). If such an item is lost/sundered/killed, do you need to purchase the item again?
example 1: a fighter who's +1 sword (he purchased between sessions) is sundered while performing his society duties ... when the session is over the sword is ...?
example 2: a druid/samurai/any "AC/mount" class looses their "AC/mount" during a session ... when the session is over, does the character get his/her animal back or is it assummed they attracted a new one. In the case of a familiar, does the familiar master need to pay for the spellcasting materials to get the familar back?
example 3: if my donkey/dog/parrot/wagon/chariot dies/is destroyed, what happens?
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example 1: a fighter who's +1 sword (he purchased between sessions) is sundered while performing his society duties ... when the session is over the sword is ...?
example 2: a druid/samurai/any "AC/mount" class looses their "AC/mount" during a session ... when the session is over, does the character get his/her animal back or is it assummed they attracted a new one. In the case of a familiar, does the familiar master need to pay for the spellcasting materials to get the familar back?
example 3: if my donkey/dog/parrot/wagon/chariot dies/is destroyed, what happens?
Example 1: If it is destroyed it is gone and they need to buy a new one.
example 2: Need to replace with a new one, using the rules per that class for doing so.
example 3: You need to ge a new one.
example 1: a fighter who's +1 sword (he purchased between sessions) is sundered while performing his society duties ... when the session is over the sword is ...?
example 2: a druid/samurai/any "AC/mount" class looses their "AC/mount" during a session ... when the session is over, does the character get his/her animal back or is it assummed they attracted a new one. In the case of a familiar, does the familiar master need to pay for the spellcasting materials to get the familar back?
example 3: if my donkey/dog/parrot/wagon/chariot dies/is destroyed, what happens?
Example 1: If it is destroyed it is gone and they need to buy a new one.
example 2: Need to replace with a new one, using the rules per that class for doing so.
example 3: You need to ge a new one.
Also for example 2, you have to go by the retraining rules in the FAQ when replacing an animal companion.
To put things simply, if you started the scenario with it or you bought it during the scenario, then it is gone for good if it is destroyed, killed, whatever, if you cannot afford to have it magically repaired, raised, etc. And also to be clear, since I feel this maybe was unasked but lurking, any consumables you own that you use will need to be re-bought as well, if you want to replace the item.
The only time these rules are not true is if you find something during a scenario. Those items can be used freely, though if you want to own something that was found, you will still have to buy it at the end of the scenario.
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Indeed, Jiggy. I've only run a half-dozen or so scenarios and haven't seen anything indicated as labeled. When we get a campaign rule that suggests that everything is labeled, or when the mods specify that potions and other magic items are labeled, I'll be happy to follow that standard. Until then, giving characters free skill checks is akin to giving them free resources (skill ranks) and doesn't reward those who invest in those skill ranks. YMMV.It becomes a matter of seconds if the potions are labeled. ;)We don't assume that you're spending more than a few seconds telling the PCs what they found when they say they're looting the body....(snip) It shouldn't disrupt the flow of the game for PCs to get treasure as they go, whether from a chest or from the body of a fallen enemy.I don't find it disrupts the flow of the game. But, given that there are Two different skill checks (Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft, sometimes Perception as well) for each magic item to be identified, a couple of minutes is more of what I experience rather than a few seconds. That tends to be about 10 minutes of table time over the course of an adventure. YMMV.
Seems to be another thing that has gone missing form the guide, which was a statement to the effect that items picked up would be identified between encounters, usualloy considered to be done by using the Take 20 rules and the usual time available between encounters in most scenarios.
Seldom are encounters back-to-back in PFS scenarios.
So, if there is someone in the party who can cast Detect Magic and has at least 5 ranks in Spellcraft or Appraise, I believe it becomes a gimme, anyhow.
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Indeed, Jiggy. I've only run a half-dozen or so scenarios and haven't seen anything indicated as labeled. When we get a campaign rule that suggests that everything is labeled, or when the mods specify that potions and other magic items are labeled, I'll be happy to follow that standard. Until then, giving characters free skill checks is akin to giving them free resources (skill ranks) and doesn't reward those who invest in those skill ranks. YMMV.It becomes a matter of seconds if the potions are labeled. ;)We don't assume that you're spending more than a few seconds telling the PCs what they found when they say they're looting the body....(snip) It shouldn't disrupt the flow of the game for PCs to get treasure as they go, whether from a chest or from the body of a fallen enemy.I don't find it disrupts the flow of the game. But, given that there are Two different skill checks (Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft, sometimes Perception as well) for each magic item to be identified, a couple of minutes is more of what I experience rather than a few seconds. That tends to be about 10 minutes of table time over the course of an adventure. YMMV.Seems to be another thing that has gone missing form the guide, which was a statement to the effect that items picked up would be identified between encounters, usualloy considered to be done by using the Take 20 rules and the usual time available between encounters in most scenarios.
Seldom are encounters back-to-back in PFS scenarios.
So, if there is someone in the party who can cast Detect Magic and has at least 5 ranks in Spellcraft or Appraise, I believe it becomes a gimme, anyhow.
Appraise is not used for identifying magic item properties, but can be used to see if an item does have magical properties. Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft are used for identifying magic item details, along with Perception for potions. Using detect magic, Kn(arcana) identifies auras and Spellcraft identifies properties. Take 20 requires that you are able to retry, as it assumes failures along the way, and takes 20 times as long as an initial check. Kn(arcana) cannot be retried for the aura. Spellcraft can only be tried once per day for the properties of an item; it can be retried, but Take 20 for Spellcraft would take 20 days. If Appraise is used for identifying if an item has magic properties, retries give the same result, so Take 20 can't be used for Appraisal. Perception for identification involves some grey area and can possibly be retried for this purpose; if doing so, it would take a minute of game time (not table time) per potion, with buffs ticking away during those encounter wrap-ups.
You would need an Appraise +24 to get a gimme on whether an item has magic properties, and you'd need a Spellcraft or Perception of +(14+CL) to get a gimme to identify an item through detect magic or taste. Basically, you have to be able to Take 1 and still succeed.
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Of course, Jiggy. And that result still will fail if you don't hit the DC with the retry elements of the skills still applying. It certainly works for many items, and should be used selectively to speed up the process. Potions, wands, and scrolls can often be tapped with a Take 10. Weapons, armor, and misc magic items...not so much.
Wizards can usually hit level appropriate stuff without a problem. Clerics, Sorcs, and other casters with a non-Intelligence casting stat...not so much.
