Glitterdust vs. Mirror Image


Rules Questions


So, probably a stupid question, but in our last session it came up as we were fighting a mighty yugoloth that had cast mirror image on himself. Our wizard cast glitterdust on him. It was ruled by the GM (after we persuaded him to do it that way) that the dust went through the figments and they were useless while the yugolth stayed in the 10-ft.-radius spread of the spell.

Were we misinterpreting/misunderstanding the rules?

Another question: If a "glitterdusted" creature leaves the area of effect ("Area: creatures and objects within 10-ft.-radius spread", is it no longer affected?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Answering your second question first: Yes, the creatures and objects in the spread are affected when the spell is cast. If they move out, they remain glitterdusted (sparkly).

To your first question: No, glitterdust is useless against mirror image. It will indeed "pass through the figments", but that doesn't matter - they will appear glitterdusted because they mirror the appearance of the target.

It's sticky gold dust, that gets in your eyes and makes you easier to see. Easier to see mirror images don't help anything.


Thank you for the answer, majuba.

The idea we had was that only real creatures and objects are outlined by the dust but illusions are not. Turns out we were wrong.


No, you've got the right idea. The glitterdust will pass straight through your illusions, but it sticks to you, and your illusions will change to reflect your new appearance. Just as your illusions will acquire false wounds as you do, they'll get fake sparkly stuff if you get glitterdusted.


My Argument (as the offending caster) was, that the Spell states:

Quote:

These images remain in your space and move with you, mimicking your movements, sounds, and actions exactly.

No Sparkling mentioned...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Turgan wrote:

Thank you for the answer, majuba.

The idea we had was that only real creatures and objects are outlined by the dust but illusions are not. Turns out we were wrong.

Lets say you cast mirror image, and then put on some lipstick. Even though you're only applying it to your real self, your mirrors will show it as well. I'd say that it was a clever try, but you really had forgotten the "mirror" part of the spell name.


Thank you both, I think I now understand why it makes no sense.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Jeremias wrote:

My Argument (as the offending caster) was, that the Spell states:

Quote:

These images remain in your space and move with you, mimicking your movements, sounds, and actions exactly.

No Sparkling mentioned...

Using this logic if I throw flour into the square the flour will only stick to thre person and the images would not look flour covered.

The images look just like the caster even if the caster changes appearance, gets floured, wet, glitter dusted, burnt by a fireball, etc.


OgeXam wrote:
Jeremias wrote:

My Argument (as the offending caster) was, that the Spell states:

Quote:

These images remain in your space and move with you, mimicking your movements, sounds, and actions exactly.

No Sparkling mentioned...

Using this logic if I throw flour into the square the flour will only stick to thre person and the images would not look flour covered.

The images look just like the caster even if the caster changes appearance, gets floured, wet, glitter dusted, burnt by a fireball, etc.

Additional example.

If I get luck and stab the caster once even though he had 7 images still up, do I just get to aim at the "Target with the gapping knife wound" or do all of the image appear to be bleeding as they shift around.


I disagree! Mirror Image will duplicate any non-magical effects upon the duplicates however a second level can't duplicate the effects of another magical spell. In former version of the D&D game it took higher level spells to duplicate lower level spells. Perfect examples are Shadow Magic and Demi-Shadow Magic for the Second Edition of D&D. It took a 5th level spell to duplicate 3rd level spells. It is not about what the Mirror Image spell does it is about the power level of the spell in question and keeping it in line with other spells of the same level. If you want to keep using it and allowing it to duplicate other spell effects then change the level of the spell to reflect this power change. It should be changed to 5th level to do what it is being allowed to do by duplicating other spells of the same and even higher levels. A perfect example of it duplicating effects from a higher level spell is the after effects of Ice Storm. When all the sleet and snow comes down in the area, it is impossible for the snow to land upon the figments but you are going to allow the SECOND LEVEL SPELL "MIRROR IMAGE" to duplicate effects from a FOURTH LEVEL SPELL. Really! How absurb and destructive to game playability!

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Spells do only what they say they do, no more. Glitterdust does not say it reveals mirror image, so it doesn't. Neither does ice storm.

And of course, the argument that mirror image not getting ignored by ice storm means mirror image should be a 5th level spell patently ridiculous.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Actually, you can use Minor Image to duplicate the effects of an Ice Storm just fine. As long as no creatures interact with the illusion, it's just as good as a real one. Same with Silent Image and most wall spells.

If you cast Mirror Image, then cast Form of the Dragon, your opponents will see a bunch of dragons flying about in the same area, not a dragon being orbited by a bunch of wizards.

Heck, I've even seen wizards cast Mirror Image and Invisibility. Opponents generally can't see them at all, but if one of them has See Invisibility up, they'll see the images.


ShadowcatX wrote:
Spells do only what they say they do, no more. Glitterdust does not say it reveals mirror image, so it doesn't.

Exactly.


Ice Storm wrote:
Great magical hailstones pound down upon casting this spell, dealing 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage and 2d6 points of cold damage to every creature in the area. This damage only occurs once, when the spell is cast. For the remaining duration of the spell, heavy snow and sleet rains down in the area. Creatures inside this area take a -4 penalty on Perception skill checks and the entire area is treated as difficult terrain. At the end of the duration, the snow and hail disappear, leaving no after-effects (other than the damage dealt).

And just how is Mirror Image copying the entire effect of this spell? It just imitates a cosmetic change.

Joe the wizard casts Mirror Image. He now gets hit by Ice Storm and as a side effect some of the snow and hail will lie on top of him. You won't allow the mirror images to reflect this as that would be "[duplicating] effects of a fourth level spell".

Now this:
Joe the wizard is standing in a snowstorm and is covered in snow and hail. He casts Mirror Image and creates illusory duplicates of himself. Since Joe is covered in snow upon casting, of course his duplicates are too, or anyone would be able to tell which one's the real one, which would make for a terribly bad spell.

And finally:
Joe the wizard has been hit by Ice Storm and is covered in snow and hail. Now he casts Mirror Image. As with the naturally occurring snowstorm and going by the same logic, surely the mirror images must duplicate this layer of snow that he is wearing upon casting the spell—but wait! This snow was created by a fourth level spell, and no way a second level spell should be able to recreate that, even though it could replicate the visuals of the real snow!

Really? Why do you hate Mirror Image?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I HATE IT BECAUE IT'S JUST SOME MAGICAL WANNABE!

but seirously, I think he was talking about Minor Image effectively duplicating Ice Storm.. not Mirror Image


1 person marked this as a favorite.

By not allowing Mirror Image to duplicate the way the affected character looks, he is preventing it from working as it is supposed to. He has effectively made the entire spell redundant, and that's what I meant with "Why do you hate Mirror Image?"

Mirror Images look like you.
You've got snow on you?
Mirror Images look like you with snow on.

It's very simple, and the source of the snow is irrelevant. It could be created by a fourth level spell, a ninth level spell, or a god, but the images would still seem to be snow-covered.


Agreed.

Now let's talk about Grease and Burning Hands.

Scarab Sages

Eben TheQuiet wrote:

Agreed.

Now let's talk about Grease and Burning Hands.

Saute?


The only other spell listed in the Mirror Image spell is Invisibility and how it effects the caster. This is a personally cast spell. After more thought I came to the conclusion that the caster should not be penalized for personally cast spells, nor should he be rewarded for the spells cast by enemies by duplicating those effects as well. This is based upon what is in the spell description and should solve the major problems caused by overpowering the effectiveness of the Mirror Image spell.


I still think you are working to destroy the spell, unless we agree that even if the images no longer look exactly like the caster and he can be easily told apart from them, the chances of hitting an image still apply.
But if we agree that it works like that, what is even the point in complaining about it duplicating the effect, when duplicating that effect or not duplicating it doesn't change a thing?
Furthermore, Mirror Image does not duplicate the effects of Ice Storm, as it will not actually create snow. It would create an illusion of snow. Because that's what the spell is. An illusion.

If you think Mirror Image is overpowered, I suggest True Seeing or AOE spells and other spells that don't require an attack roll.
Worried about non-casters remaining effective? The spell stops scaling at lv 12 you get 5 to 8 duplicates. At lv 12, the fighter just got his 3rd iterative attack. Worst case scenario, he has a 1/9 chance (11%) of hitting the caster on the first round, but as long as he hits the caster's AC-5 an image will disappear, making it more and more likely that the caster will be hit by each consecutive attack.
11% at 8 images
12,5% at 7
14% at 6
17% at 5
20% at 4
25% at 3
33% at 2
50% at 1

Hell, in the best case scenario for the caster's opponents, he only gets 5 images, in which case we start off with 17% chance of him getting hit, and one round of a single fighter missing the caster's AC by 5 or less will bring the chances up to 33%.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Glitterdust vs. Mirror Image All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.