Humanoid half dragons have no breath weapon?

[Ravingdork]

"A half-dragon retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains a breath weapon usable once per day based on the dragon variety (see below). The breath weapon deals 1d6 hit points of damage per racial HD possessed by the half-dragon (Reflex half; DC 10 + 1/2 creature's racial HD + creature's Con modifier)."

How does this work on a character with no racial hit dice and a handful of class levels? Do they just not get a breath weapon at all?

[James Jacobs]

Ravingdork wrote:

"A half-dragon retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains a breath weapon usable once per day based on the dragon variety (see below). The breath weapon deals 1d6 hit points of damage per racial HD possessed by the half-dragon (Reflex half; DC 10 + 1/2 creature's racial HD + creature's Con modifier)."

How does this work on a character with no racial hit dice and a handful of class levels? Do they just not get a breath weapon at all?

Doesn't at all. A human half-dragon doesn't have a breath weapon.

If this means there are fewer half-dragon humans in the game, I consider that a victory.

The half-dragon template in Pathfinder is intended to be applied to monsters for the most part.

If you want to play a draconic humanoid, and can't wait for the powers the dragon disciple prestige class or the draconic bloodline give you, at this point you have to seek out options in 3rd party sources or go back to 3.5 books that have things like dragonkin or draconians in them.

[Ravingdork]

Thanks James!

[Thefurmonger]

James Jacobs wrote:

If this means there are fewer half-dragon humans in the game, I consider that a victory.

Hell yes!

This is the kind of designer speak I can get behind.

[Are]

I just now noticed that the Half-Dragon's breath weapon now has scaling damage rather than fixed damage. Thank you for that change, too :)

[HappyDaze]

Thefurmonger wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

If this means there are fewer half-dragon humans in the game, I consider that a victory.

Hell yes!

This is the kind of designer speak I can get behind.

I'm not sure taking away a 1/day breath weapon is really going to dissuade all that many people that might be interested in taking half-dragon. The biggest attractions - the big boost to strength, natural armor, and flight - are still there and can make for some fearsome melee fighters.

[Talonhawke]

Dang Necromancers at it again.

[Frankthedm]

HappyDaze wrote:

the big boost to strength, natural armor, and flight - are still there and can make for some fearsome melee fighters.

You have to be large to get the wings IIRC.

[Belle Mythix]

Frankthedm wrote:

HappyDaze wrote:

the big boost to strength, natural armor, and flight - are still there and can make for some fearsome melee fighters.

You have to be large to get the wings IIRC.

Not in Pathfinder, as far as I know.

[Talonhawke]

Speed: A half-dragon has wings. Unless the base creature has a better fly speed, the half-dragon can fly at twice the creature's base land speed (average maneuverability).

Nope any size gains wings.

Edit nothing to see here.

[blahpers]

How would you handle this sort of thing, given that Pathfinder doesn't really have a mechanic for level-adjusted races?

Edit: Yeah, I know it isn't a race, but it is a CR adjustment (and an obvious advantage over a vanilla character anywhere but Dragonbania, World Where All Attacks Have Dragon Bane).

[HappyDaze]

The rules from the Bestiary appendix indicates that the CR (or CR adjustment) is added as an effective level. For all purposes, it is a LA without the name. There is also a mechanic listed where the effective CR is reduced with increasing character level, up to a maximum reduction of half it's initial value, but this part is specific to creatures with racial HD.

Within these rules, a Half-Dragon made from any of the common PC races will be two levels behind most of the others. For Fighters, Barbarians, Monks, Rogues and similar characters that benefit greatly from strength and natural armor (or flight), this may still be an attractive option (assuming the GM offers it).

[Frankthedm]

Talonhawke wrote:

Speed: A half-dragon has wings. Unless the base creature has a better fly speed, the half-dragon can fly at twice the creature's base land speed (average maneuverability).

Nope any size gains wings.

Edit nothing to see here.

Doh! Damn brain won't let go of 3.5.

[HappyDaze]

Another question:

The Half-Dragon gains Immunity to the energy type associated with it's breath weapon. A Half-Dragon without racial HD - like a human Half-Dragon - does not have a breath weapon (according to JJ, per the second post of this thread). Does that mean it also doesn't have Immunity to an associated energy type?

This might be interesting for Half-Dragons of no definable dragon variety - such as from the magical experiments mentioned in the Half-Dragon text - rather than those of mixed birth.

[Frankthedm]

HappyDaze wrote:

Another question:

The Half-Dragon gains Immunity to the energy type associated with it's breath weapon. A Half-Dragon without racial HD - like a human Half-Dragon - does not have a breath weapon (according to JJ, per the second post of this thread). Does that mean it also doesn't have Immunity to an associated energy type?

Actually the RAW text JJ quoted shows they get a breath weapon that deals no damage. So there is an argument to be made they have the immunity.

[Rocky Williams 530]

Frankthedm wrote:

HappyDaze wrote:

Another question:

The Half-Dragon gains Immunity to the energy type associated with it's breath weapon. A Half-Dragon without racial HD - like a human Half-Dragon - does not have a breath weapon (according to JJ, per the second post of this thread). Does that mean it also doesn't have Immunity to an associated energy type?

Actually the RAW text JJ quoted shows they get a breath weapon that deals no damage. So there is an argument to be made they have the immunity.

He actually specifically says they have no breath weapon though.

[Sideshow3D]

HappyDaze wrote:

Another question:

The Half-Dragon gains Immunity to the energy type associated with it's breath weapon. A Half-Dragon without racial HD - like a human Half-Dragon - does not have a breath weapon (according to JJ, per the second post of this thread). Does that mean it also doesn't have Immunity to an associated energy type?

This might be interesting for Half-Dragons of no definable dragon variety - such as from the magical experiments mentioned in the Half-Dragon text - rather than those of mixed birth.

Actually, as per the text in the PRD for the Bestiary

Quote:

A half-dragon gains darkvision 60 feet; low-light vision; and immunity to sleep, paralysis, and energy of the same type as its breath weapon.

There is no specific mention of Racial HD, which is what disqualifies the Half-Dragon from breath weapon damage. As for what this means to me? I'd say they can breath a weak form of the breath weapon that does No damage, and they are still resistant to their element.

Could there be a variant (Read: House-rule) that doesn't have the resistance or possibly other abilities listed? Sure there could, that's why they are called house rules.

EDIT: I reread what I posted, and being half asleep I somehow missed what JJ had said about there not being a breath weapon at all. If that is the case, the resistance IMO, would still be to what type of breath weapon that type of dragon would have had, even if they don't have the breath weapon. Of course, it's shaky ground as the wording could swing either way.

[Kazaan]

D-D-D-D-DOUBLE NECRO!

Can someone close this thread already before it becomes illegal in most states?