Atlanti, pureblood are a powerful race where they add +2 to all ability scores.
What I'm curious about is would you allow one if you allowed all core and other slightly powerful races like Tiefling, Aasimar, Tengu and ect?
I'm just asking about a balance issue not if you'd allow it due to them all supposidly being dead when Aroden fell.
|
I personally would not let have a problem assuming the player took a 1 level deduction at the time of character creation, that is assuming a party at a higher level than 1 or 2.
I wouldn't ever let them be played by a PC in a game set in the lore of Golarion however simply due to the history of it all, and I would likely do some kind of reskin of the thing as well to help suit the players needs.
All that being said the pureblood AZ's are significantly more powerful PC's than almost any other 0hd race.
?
Is that a proposed house race? Or has that been published somewhere? I don't see how people get all these books.
iy's in the inner world sea guide under azlanti, page 12.
Atlanti, pureblood are a powerful race where they add +2 to all ability scores.
What I'm curious about is would you allow one if you allowed all core and other slightly powerful races like Tiefling, Aasimar, Tengu and ect?
I'm just asking about a balance issue not if you'd allow it due to them all supposidly being dead when Aroden fell.
Personally, I have no problem at all with the PC playing that race. As it stands they are above average race than most humans. The average human being a 10 stat, so I have told those in my group that they must keep a 10 in all the stats leaving them all at 12 with the race bonus. It would not make sense to me to let them lower any score in order to get more points for other stats since they are an older human race. I also do not let them put the additional +2 stat of humans in a stat that would let it go over level 20. All in all, they never end up overpowered because most classes only use 2 main stats. The rest of the stats only help with save and skills which don't help tons.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I have no problem at all with the PC playing that race. As it stands they are above average race than most humans. The average human being a 10 stat, so I have told those in my group that they must keep a 10 in all the stats leaving them all at 12 with the race bonus. It would not make sense to me to let them lower any score in order to get more points for other stats since they are an older human race. I also do not let them put the additional +2 stat of humans in a stat that would let it go over level 20. All in all, they never end up overpowered because most classes only use 2 main stats. The rest of the stats only help with save and skills which don't help tons.Atlanti, pureblood are a powerful race where they add +2 to all ability scores.
What I'm curious about is would you allow one if you allowed all core and other slightly powerful races like Tiefling, Aasimar, Tengu and ect?
I'm just asking about a balance issue not if you'd allow it due to them all supposidly being dead when Aroden fell.
I'm pretty sure +2 on every stat removes the normal human's +2 to any stat. Also that's a very good point as the other stats don't help a ton. Probably could mage a mystic thurger if allowed to lower scored but as you said, you don't let your players lower any scores.
It says that all stats gain a +2 bonus to scores. It does not change the rest of the human race, just add. This can be confirmed in Hero Lab as well, as you will still have to choose to add the +2 to your stats.
It says that all stats gain a +2 bonus to scores. It does not change the rest of the human race, just add. This can be confirmed in Hero Forge as well, as you will still have to choose to add the +2 to your stats.James Jacobs explicitly says that that is not the case here.
Thank you for the link, that helps. But then the problem is still there if you use Hero Lab. Maybe it's a glitch they have not caught.
Sorry I meant Hero Lab the official Pathfinder character builder supplement. I made corrections to my posts on it.
Sorry I meant Hero Lab the official Pathfinder character builder supplement.
It isn't an official supplement; it's a third-party program.
As for the race itself: I might allow a PC with that race, if the player had a good background story. The PC would have to be one level behind any PC with a normal race though, as +2 to all stats with no drawbacks is pretty good.
No.
It says that all stats gain a +2 bonus to scores. It does not change the rest of the human race, just add. This can be confirmed in Hero Lab as well, as you will still have to choose to add the +2 to your stats.
Actually herolab has the +2 paled out meaning they don't gain it.
|
|
Sorry I meant Hero Lab the official Pathfinder character builder supplement.It isn't an official supplement; it's a third-party program.
As for the race itself: I might allow a PC with that race, if the player had a good background story. The PC would have to be one level behind any PC with a normal race though, as +2 to all stats with no drawbacks is pretty good.
Technically it IS the official character creation suite, it just isn't produced in house. There was a blog post about it a while ago. I know because that is when I jumped the wagon and came aboard the HL express.
Nope, I wouldn't allow it.
I think those bonuses really are a big deal.
Compare it to humans (and the crossbreeds) who only get one +2 to a single score, or the other races who get +2 to two, but those are fixed AND balanced by a -2 to another score, also fixed.
It's a big deal. Even if a lot of classes only really focus on one or two scores, they usually have to keep an eye on another couple of scores in addition to that.
That's for what I'd consider the most typical version of the classes. If you go archer paladin, you'll need dex, of course, for example.
Anyway, You rarely have less than 3 scores you want to have decent or semi-decent stats on and at least one more you can't afford to dump.
And getting a boost in all of them instead of only one/some of them (and maybe penalty) is immensely helpful. Even a wizard or sorcerer - arguably the most focussed classes when it comes to ability scores - will find this really useful.
Sure, it's kind of cheesy, but if the player wants that extra little "uber" feeling to be happy, and the other players are okay with it, then let it slide.
Well, I'm already quite generous when it comes to character generation and advancement. The characters are already plenty über, but even that has its limits.
Creative Director
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
My general assumption is that PCs won't be Azlantis, because of the fact that they're more or less extinct. The reason we put them in the book at all is because there ARE some Azlantis still out there... mostly in the form of ancient undead remnants from Azlant or Thassilon, but they still count!
The possibility of modern Azlantis still surviving into this day is certainly out there, but such an event would likely be played up as a key event or surprise in an adventure in print rather than us ever saying "go ahead and play Azlanti humans as PCs with Paizo's blessing."
Yar!
I'm not going to do it, so as not to become "that guy"... but I have this feeling that someone, somewhere, is going to misquote that, saying that you said only what you said in quotations.
The internets is Evil that way.
*runs away and hides under a large rock*
~P
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My general assumption is that PCs won't be Azlantis, because of the fact that they're more or less extinct. The reason we put them in the book at all is because there ARE some Azlantis still out there... mostly in the form of ancient undead remnants from Azlant or Thassilon, but they still count!
The possibility of modern Azlantis still surviving into this day is certainly out there, but such an event would likely be played up as a key event or surprise in an adventure in print rather than us ever saying "go ahead and play Azlanti humans as PCs with Paizo's blessing."
or as the book says: "Ancient Azlanti could be introduced into a game via a number of different methods, such as by released from a temporal stasis effect, restored to freedom from an imprisonment, or even resurrected by powerful artifacts or ancient magic capable of restoring life to someone thousands of years dead. There could even be pockets of pureblooded Azlanti dwelling still in remote and well-hidden locations."
Also Rise of the Runelords had Thessalonians still alive and kicking after all those years (admittedly only skimmed over the pages of the AP whilst posting up conversions online.) so there could indeed be some secret city hidden inside a mountain of somekind, using powerful illusion magic to block any and all entrances or even might have fled to another dimension like the Elves did during the age of darkness.
My general assumption is that PCs won't be Azlantis, because of the fact that they're more or less extinct. The reason we put them in the book at all is because there ARE some Azlantis still out there... mostly in the form of ancient undead remnants from Azlant or Thassilon, but they still count!
The possibility of modern Azlantis still surviving into this day is certainly out there, but such an event would likely be played up as a key event or surprise in an adventure in print rather than us ever saying "go ahead and play Azlanti humans as PCs with Paizo's blessing."
or as the book says: "Ancient Azlanti could be introduced into a game via a number of different methods, such as by released from a temporal stasis effect, restored to freedom from an imprisonment, or even resurrected by powerful artifacts or ancient magic capable of restoring life to someone thousands of years dead. There could even be pockets of pureblooded Azlanti dwelling still in remote and well-hidden locations."
Also Rise of the Runelords had Thessalonians still alive and kicking after all those years (admittedly only skimmed over the pages of the AP whilst posting up conversions online.) so there could indeed be some secret city hidden inside a mountain of somekind, using powerful illusion magic to block any and all entrances or even might have fled to another dimension like the Elves did during the age of darkness.
Serpent'skull would have been the place to hide said person, opportunity missed!
"if" playing a game where this would be a likely possibility (skulking around the ruins of saventh yhi, or another adventure with links to the past, and a PC was killed (not easy to introduce replacement PCs in saventh yhi for example) it might be neat to come up with a PC who was azlanti and some way of being frozen (ie encino man) in time, and introduce him into the party at maybe a lesser level or something.
|
Creative Director
|
or as the book says: "Ancient Azlanti could be introduced into a game via a number of different methods, such as by released from a temporal stasis effect, restored to freedom from an imprisonment, or even resurrected by powerful artifacts or ancient magic capable of restoring life to someone thousands of years dead. There could even be pockets of pureblooded Azlanti dwelling still in remote and well-hidden locations."
Correct.
The point is, players need permission from the GM to play an Azlant, and the GM shouldn't feel pressured to say "okay" just because we put them in the book.
I would allow it. I would probably have it cost a level.
Though a question...do they gain the bons feat and bonus skill points as well? If so I might make it two levels...
Serpent's Skull would have been the place to hide said person, opportunity missed!
Incorrect - there is a 'blurb' location that could well hold such persons... Ebidwar himself might have something to say about that though.
Serpent's Skull would have been the place to hide said person, opportunity missed!Incorrect - there is a 'blurb' location that could well hold such persons... Ebidwar himself might have something to say about that though.
who dat?
who dat?Serpent's Skull would have been the place to hide said person, opportunity missed!Incorrect - there is a 'blurb' location that could well hold such persons... Ebidwar himself might have something to say about that though.
The dude who trained the dudette that whacked whats-its-faces noggin off in the fine arts of beating tucas. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Serpent'skull would have been the place to hide said person, opportunity missed!
Funnily enough, I placed an Azlanti survivor into the Serpents' Skull and she's being played by one of my players.
She is an Oracle of Stone who had her gift turned against her for blasphemy, petrifying her for over five hundred years.
Serpent's Skull Spoilers Below:
As for how I'm handling her +2 to every stat... I'm not. The player rolled obscenely well for the character (seriously,) and I said "that uber-ness represents your plus two to every stat." I did give the human +2, though, to be fair.
Atlanti, pureblood are a powerful race where they add +2 to all ability scores.
What I'm curious about is would you allow one if you allowed all core and other slightly powerful races like Tiefling, Aasimar, Tengu and ect?
I'm just asking about a balance issue not if you'd allow it due to them all supposidly being dead when Aroden fell.
I agree with this. I have played a Tiefling and it is not really any better than the core races, well it is a little better, but the "super human" is a lot better.
I think the Azlanti purebloods position in Golarion is such that i personally would only allow it as a Dm if i had planned to make it part of the story. i think as far as Rp and cha rbackstory goes its a pretty big deal.
|
Creative Director
|
I would allow it. I would probably have it cost a level.
Though a question...do they gain the bons feat and bonus skill points as well? If so I might make it two levels...
They're humans, so yeah, they gain all the normal human perks. Their ability score modifiers are the only thing that's different.
They're humans, so yeah, they gain all the normal human perks. Their ability score modifiers are the only thing that's different.I would allow it. I would probably have it cost a level.
Though a question...do they gain the bons feat and bonus skill points as well? If so I might make it two levels...
I wouldn't allow it unless said player agreed to both a +1 CLA and 10 point buy.
I wouldn't allow it unless said player agreed to both a +1 CLA and 10 point buy.They're humans, so yeah, they gain all the normal human perks. Their ability score modifiers are the only thing that's different.I would allow it. I would probably have it cost a level.
Though a question...do they gain the bons feat and bonus skill points as well? If so I might make it two levels...
A 10 point buy would all but cancel out the extra +2's
str 12 (14)
dex 12
con 12
int 12
wis 12
cha 10 12
The 14's are worth 5 points each so they are a combined 25. The 12 is worth two so the Azlanti is worth a 27 point buy under your system.
Even if the other people had a 15 point buy an extra 12 points is not worth a level since people will focus on the primary scores, and the modifier difference will be about a +2 in similar builds.
It might be worth a +1 level adjustment if they start with the same point buy as every one else though, depending on which class they want. I do think a +1 without any other conditions is a decent general rule.
Sure.
That necessary?
I'm not saying it should be standard, or that it appeals to me but if someone wants to do it, and the GM and other players don't mind, why not?
Because it's over the top.
It isn't as good as being one level higher than everyone else, or something like that.
It's not far off, though.
You get:
+1 to hit
+1 to damage
+1 AC (probably)
+1 Skill point
+1 to all skills
+1 hit point
Probably an extra spell or two / day
You forgot +1 to all saves. And the HP is one per level.
And there's more stuff like better access to spell levels and feats. And the damage is +0 to +2, depending on whether you use the weapon one-handed, two-handed, or use two of them. And daily uses of lots of class abilities.
I'm not really keen on hunting down everything a +2 to all ability scores does, but, well, you started it.
What it is is almost the same as a "positive level". Getting that +2 to all means the character will be better at almost everything he can do.
I'm not handing out that for nothing.
And I think that there'd be people willing to play the race even if it sets them back a level.
It isn't so good that you're likely to be better at anything a different Class does, than the player playing that class, though.
What?
What are you talking about, and what does it have to do with this discussion?
It probably isn't any better than playing that half-Jann or whatever it was in the Qadira book, either.
Of course it isn't.
We're talking about a template that adds two to the CR, by the way. Pathfinder doesn't have level adjustments, but in 3e, it would probably be something like +4.
Templates with an estimated LA of +4 and a definite CR adjustment of +2 are usually more powerful than templates/adjustments that will only set you back a level or so. It's one of those things.
Not so good you're likely to have to increase encounter levels either, or to make it so that if you challenge this player in a battle, everyone else is completely outclassed.
That's not the same as "too good to be given away without the player giving something up."
When I gauge the power level of things, I have one basic test. I ask myself: "If I allowed this, would there be a reason, other than flavour reason, to play anything else in most circumstances?"
For most character concepts, I wouldn't see any reason other than flavour not to choose Azlanti as a race for most, if not all, character builds I can think of off the top of my head. At least not if there is no downside to it, like lagging behind a level.
That makes it too good.
|
Well, yeah, of course the race is overpowered. It's a human... which is very balanced... but better in every way.
Still, if I had someone that wanted to play one, I'd just remove the bonus feat and skills (since you get roughly the equivalent in stats anyways) and call it a day. Or, if I had a group that wanted to play some sort of lost Azlanti culture, I'd just make the fights a tiny bit tougher (like I would anyways). /shrug
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Remember this folks. The stats bump only really ramps up the effectiveness in the early levels. Evetually the extra +1 accross the board gets ecplipsed by more powerful encounters.
So many GMs want to penalize players right from jump street and I don't agree with that philosophy. I think someone above me mentioned they would impose a +1 level adjustment AND and 10 point buy, really? Just the 10 point buy negates the need for a level adjustment, that's too harsh imo. If you're worried about a character being overpowered then you should adjust the level of encounters by +1, rather than hampering the character, it will only frustrate him or her and make it less fun.
That said the question remains, would you allow this race? I would not from a lore standpoint. It should be a major world event if the Azlanti were still around.
To the OP: Never.
A +1 to all ability scores can actually get *more* powerful as you go up in level, and odds of success (for saving throws and such) become slimmer on both ends. If you have a 50% chance of a spell working (by you or on you), 5% only changes success rate by 10%. If there's only 15% chance of success, it changes success rate by 33%.
|
|
I would have them hidden deep beneath the ocean in the great, lost city of Azlantis. There they would have perfected their technology after years of being completely isolated without the threat of war, harnessing new uses for magic to create a new kind of technology that they would then use to take the overworld by storm, ruling it with a firm, if benevolent, hand as they waited for the return of their dead god.
...
At least, that's how I'd do it.
they waited for the return of their dead god.
It took me millennia after my people died before I ascended to divinity. I wasn't their god.
Back in my pre-immortal days, religion in Azlant was in some ways just like it is today, though it was different in others.
A lot of our old gods are still around today, though my fellow Azlanti wouldn't recognise them.
Just a minor point.
Aroden has spoken! End of discussion!
|
|
they waited for the return of their dead god.It took me millennia after my people died before I ascended to divinity. I wasn't their god.
Back in my pre-immortal days, religion in Azlant was in some ways just like it is today, though it was different in others.
A lot of our old gods are still around today, though my fellow Azlanti wouldn't recognise them.
Just a minor point.
/whip
Get back in your grave!
Also...
Henceforth, the tombstone of Aroden shall read thus:
"Even in death, his mouth never stopped yapping."
I wouldn't allow it unless said player agreed to both a +1 CLA and 10 point buy.They're humans, so yeah, they gain all the normal human perks. Their ability score modifiers are the only thing that's different.I would allow it. I would probably have it cost a level.
Though a question...do they gain the bons feat and bonus skill points as well? If so I might make it two levels...
A 10 point buy would all but cancel out the extra +2's
str 12 (14)
dex 12
con 12
int 12
wis 12
cha 10 12The 14's are worth 5 points each so they are a combined 25. The 12 is worth two so the Azlanti is worth a 27 point buy under your system.
Even if the other people had a 15 point buy an extra 12 points is not worth a level since people will focus on the primary scores, and the modifier difference will be about a +2 in similar builds.
It might be worth a +1 level adjustment if they start with the same point buy as every one else though, depending on which class they want. I do think a +1 without any other conditions is a decent general rule.
I probably should have added a ":P" at the end of my post as it was intended to be tongue in cheek. I usually prefer that everyone plays the same CLA for issues of scaling but I'd allow an Azlanti if the player was set on it, with a +1 CLA.
I probably should have added a ":P" at the end of my post as it was intended to be tongue in cheek. I usually prefer that everyone plays the same CLA for issues of scaling but I'd allow an Azlanti if the player was set on it, with a +1 CLA.
You may have said it jokingly, but I have seen similar things from very serious people.
You may have said it jokingly, but I have seen similar things from very serious people.
I probably should have added a ":P" at the end of my post as it was intended to be tongue in cheek. I usually prefer that everyone plays the same CLA for issues of scaling but I'd allow an Azlanti if the player was set on it, with a +1 CLA.
I'd allow it if the player had a good background concept that appealed to me and fit the campaign/AP i was looking to run. Players will already put the +2 racials into their key stat(s) as it is, so this just raises the less relevant ones a little. I don't see it as game breaking here, just a choice to be made by the DM in question.
|
Atlanti, pureblood are a powerful race where they add +2 to all ability scores.
What I'm curious about is would you allow one if you allowed all core and other slightly powerful races like Tiefling, Aasimar, Tengu and ect?
I'm just asking about a balance issue not if you'd allow it due to them all supposidly being dead when Aroden fell.
Situationally, yes I would allow it. But then I am not competing in a tournament or trying to balance some video game, so the word "Balance" means absolutely nothing if the small group of people playing are having fun.
Atlanti, pureblood are a powerful race where they add +2 to all ability scores.
What I'm curious about is would you allow one if you allowed all core and other slightly powerful races like Tiefling, Aasimar, Tengu and ect?
I'm just asking about a balance issue not if you'd allow it due to them all supposidly being dead when Aroden fell.
Situationally, yes I would allow it. But then I am not competing in a tournament or trying to balance some video game, so the word "Balance" means absolutely nothing if the small group of people playing are having fun.
Now that's a mentallity I like to see :)
I agree, I'm usually leaniant with my players and would only allow a really great story that went with it, like what Rathendar has said above.
Certainly not game breaking, but limited and extremely hard to pass yes.