Looking to join a PF pbp that doesn't end after 35 posts


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Tomorrow I'll stop by the local game store and see if they have the first installment of Serpent's Skull. I would love to run Kingmaker someday but just am not ready for it right now.


Well, in that case, while we wait we could just 'write' play for a little while and see what develops?


This board really needs a good tavern thread for those not currently engaged in a game. If there is interest in that I could probably work on something like that tomorrow. It would be a good way to kill time, as well as give new people a chance to show off writing styles.


Mothman wrote:

Was that me?

If so, yeah, it was a combination of me feeling that people had lost interest along with RL commitments at my end that were making it hard for to find the time to GM 3 pbp games.

Nope not you, RL kills many games no worries about that one I totally understand. I had to drop out of all my games I played it but one due to RL recently


sunshadow21 wrote:
This board really needs a good tavern thread for those not currently engaged in a game. If there is interest in that I could probably work on something like that tomorrow. It would be a good way to kill time, as well as give new people a chance to show off writing styles.

I've seen two such tavern threads come and go already. Even they aren't safe from implosion...>_>

But, by all means, I for one shall applaud and support your efforts. *Bows*


Tavern threads are a good way to find an ad hoc group of people who play well together. The current trio for whom I GM all came out of the old Limbo Tavern. That lasted for 2000+ posts, spawned a 1750 post side-quest to Crypt of the Everflame, which then transitioned into being my 2800 post (and counting) Serpent's Skull game.

I'd say, start up a tavern of your own, see who shows up, see how you get along, and go from there. Even if it doesn't last forever, if the ultimate point is the genesis of a PbP group, then that's all that matters.

If you are interested in having a look at the basic "rules" that Limbo used, they're in the first post:
Limbo PbP


Check out Boomer's Bar & Grill in the game section.


sunshadow21 wrote:
Check out Boomer's Bar & Grill in the game section.

Linkified for convenience. Good luck! :)


Thank for providing the link; I don't know how to do that.


Below the text box in which you type your message board posts, you'll see this:

BBCode tags you can use:

Beside it is a button entitled "Show". Click that and it will show you how you can format your posts. If you get into PbPing, you'll need to know quite a bit of formatting to keep things readable, separate in-character from out-of-character text, make die rolls, and spoiler information that should only be known by certain characters or by people who pass certain DCs. :)

Another trick is to click reply on a post that uses formatting to see how someone else did it. Not all of the forum code will allow itself to be quoted (i.e. spoilers and die rolls), but most everything else will.

If you dislike having to type lots of code, or you end up running a game and need to do the same rolls over and over (initiative, perception/stealth/sense motive checks for the whole party, etc.) then I'd highly recommend using a program called ShortKeys that allows you to make code snippets you can easily insert without having to copy/paste or retype. There's also a Free Version.

If it looks useful, let me know and I'll share my shortcuts with you. I use the for everything from tracking initiative, to my homebrew's calendar, to d20 rolls, battle map updates, or even linking to emotionally charged theme music. :)

Dark Archive

Laithoron wrote:

...If you dislike having to type lots of code, or you end up running a game and need to do the same rolls over and over (initiative, perception/stealth/sense motive checks for the whole party, etc.) then I'd highly recommend using a program called ShortKeys that allows you to make code snippets you can easily insert without having to copy/paste or retype. There's also a Free Version.

If it looks useful, let me know and I'll share my shortcuts with you. I use the for everything from tracking initiative, to my homebrew's calendar, to d20 rolls, battle map updates, or even linking to emotionally charged theme music. :)

Yoink! And thanks! :)

Cheers


Coming back to this thread, as a DM when I send out a request for players, I look for players who like to keep things simple. Meaning, they are content to play a Core class without a dozen off-the-wall options that would make it difficult to play much less keep up with as a DM. There's a reason D&D has survived for 30+ years - the basic fighter, thief, magic-user, and cleric classes still work! Granted, the game has evolved into much more, but those four classes still survive and if that is all you had to work with, you could have a fun, successful game.

I guess what I'm saying (just from my personal viewpoint) is when you "audition" for a game opening, keep it simple. Don't give the DM a headache with your character proposition. Instead, allow your character to grow and develop in the game, picking up skills and traits and new powers. This gradual enhancement of your character is fun and gives you (and your DM) something to work toward and incorporate into the game.

Thoughts?


*coughs* Um....well, given some of my character makes...I am sadly not of pleasant company by those standards...>_>

Though, I have had 'normal' characters who's games have unfortunately since folded. Luck of the dice rolls, I suppose...Still, to each there own. =)


I'm mostly inclined to agree with you, hedgeknight. That's why I tend to dislike a background longer than a short paragraph to start with. That's enough to give the both the DM and yourself something to work with and develop, but doesn't create too many details for the DM to keep track of. Same with personality, anything more than a short paragraph at the start just makes it harder to adjust the character to the party as the party develops its own personality, at least for me. Now once the party is selected, I can see fleshing out personality and background a bit more so as to incorporate the emerging personality of the party and tis members into the character, but for a submission, I prefer a simple and flexible concept with maybe 2 or 3 things that highlight the character's concept along with a short bit on where I plan on taking this character in the future. The last part is especially important for the many concepts out there that don't look all that impressive at level 1, but given the opportunity to reach level 5 or 6 or so, can become really fun, interesting, and engaging for the duration of a long term campaign.

I do find though, that as long as the concept itself is mechanically simple, the class and mechanics used to portray it don't usually matter too much, complexity wise, unless the person designing it goes out of their way to find things to make it that way. The problem I tend to run into is that I tend to enjoy making characters that require at some point a decent amount of complexity to actually pull off mechanically. A lot of concepts I come up with are hard to see at level 1.

Edit: This isn't to say that a 3 paragraph long backstory for a submission is bad, just that it's not something I'm going to be very eager to do unless I know that my chances of having the submission accepted is very high. It just seems like a lot of extra work for something that may not ever see the light of day.

Sovereign Court

I disagree here. I always want long, well thought out backgrounds for anyone applying to my games. Complexity is not a problem for me, and those who get slots are usualy those who I can tell have put a great deal of effort in their background.

Posting a list of requirements in my first post is also a greet screener; if people haven't provided the information I have clearly asked every submission to make i.e. time zone then I usually don't consider their concept- i'm going to put a huge amount of time into my games for my players, and if they don't even read my very first post carefully I don't have much patience for them.


Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
I disagree here. I always want long, well thought out backgrounds for anyone applying to my games. Complexity is not a problem for me, and those who get slots are usualy those who I can tell have put a great deal of effort in their background.

If I am going to develop a long background for my concept before I even know if it is ever going to get played, I better have a dang good reason for doing so. It might be different for those who DM, but I know that for me, coming up with backgrounds is reasonably challenging, especially in the vacuum of not knowing who else might be in the party, and not something I can do unless I feel some kind of real attachment to the concept being presented. I can understand the need for screening, but not everyone can whip together a page long biography of character concepts on the fly.

EDIT: I guess I just find a fully developed character that ends up collecting dust to be something of a waste, especially if I already have other characters being played that could have been improved with that time.


Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
Posting a list of requirements in my first post is also a greet screener; if people haven't provided the information I have clearly asked every submission to make i.e. time zone then I usually don't consider their concept- i'm going to put a huge amount of time into my games for my players, and if they don't even read my very first post carefully I don't have much patience for them.

Preach it! I shared my latest request for players earlier in this thread (I think it's on page 2) and you'd be surprised how many submissions I received which failed to include over half of the requests I made. I basically didn't even look at them.

As for background, that's up to the DM running the game. I usually ask for a short background, but if players want to write more, that's fine. I'm with sunshadow in that I prefer something short and sweet - and I'm not talking about my preference for cute, petite women.......(clears throat).....but I digress. Where was I? Oh yeah, background. Keep it simple and brief - if I choose your character for the game, then we can work on a more complete back story that I can weave into the game.


When it comes to 'back ground' I must admit to having gone to both extremes, as the Muse has taken an influence and worked at creating back grounds for some characters and scant crumbs of words for others...

From something as simple as this,

Sunset:
'Sunset' (As she prefers to be called by her friends) is a cheery, happy soul. Having grown up about the ports and harbors of (the Adriatic sea) she has earned a living, up until now, by working on small fishing boats and trawlers or by providing impromptu entrainment at the small local taverns in the hamlets where the ships would put in for berth.

Now, slightly bored of the sea (And always cleaning the salt from her hair), she has headed inland to see what the world at large holds in store for her.

To something that goes to this.

S.c.a.r.l.e.t. (Part the 1):
Scarlet has grown up in a wonderful, friendly environment. She loves her daily schedules and how they allow her to spend so much fun time learning new things with her sisters Jade, Amber and Violet.

How on First day she and Violet get to engage in physical training and exercise, with Scarlet trying to physically out match the trickier Violet.

On Second day how she gets to spend time with Jade in physio-therapy. Usually with Jade playing Doctor and Scarlet playing patient.

On Third day she gets to help Amber test the various physical abilities of whatever project Amber has been given to work on, from personal protection gear to Personal protective/projective Ordinance

Then the next two days usually spent with their personal trainers and techs who help them develop and learn to become better.

"Quantok Industries, we make the future better." Is the motto she knows and recites by heart. ^_^. Whether it's learning how to range and fire the latest Personal Mass Driver (TM) P.W.O or just getting better at personal inter-active communication

This schedule currently leaves the four girls two whole days of time to themselves, where they are encouraged to learn and develop for themselves. Though as Amber and Jade have warned and been proven right on many an occasion, this also allows for the girl's schedule to change so that they can all be fast trained in whatever cross research and development the facility is engaged in at the time.

Such as the 'team' testing certain combat gear, or a pair of them engaging in something more 'mission' specific, such as when Violet and Scarlet spent almost four complete week cycles learning how to use the B.R.O.N.T.O.S. Combat vehicle effectively (and to much adulation and cheers from their tech handlers) when they successfully defeated the rival R&D tech's "A.P.E." suited combat squad.

S.c.a.r.l.e.t. (Part the 2):
Quantok Industries Data Sheet:

The company representative walks out onto the stage, their suit pressed and tailored impeccably, they smile out into the darkened room, perfect teeth white under the spotlight's glare. They adjust the setting on the laptop built into the face of the podium before them, the lighting shifts and they begin their presentation.

"Hello, I needn't rehash any tired old phrases and terms. Let me get straight to the matter, no spin, no hype. Today I'd like to present a new line from Quantok industries." They speak straight to the audience arrayed before them, no glancing down at pre-prepared notes.

"The modern age has become used to seeing and reading about U.C.A.Vs and other automated systems. Now, while we here at Quantok have our range of products available in the market, we also like to research into new and innovative areas.' They pause as the large screen behind them runs through a series of product displays, the sequence created to show the range, depth and breadth of Quantok's production capabilities.

"Now, Autonomous vehicles and craft are good, but they are as only as good as the designs and concepts manage to keep up to date with the environments for which they were created. Change even a small parameter within that environment and sometimes you end up with a weapon system that can no longer function, or perhaps is suddenly made obsolete." They pause again as the screen's displays run their course.

"The Sailing ship of centuries past was the epitome of political power projection, then the industrial revolution swept them away. The great armored warships that followed were made redundant over night by the commissioning of one ship, which became the template for all such craft to follow. This vessel and her kind were themselves then shown, in less than a life time, to be dramatically 'out of touch' with the proper use and devastating use of air power." Again a kaleidoscope array of images cascade across the screen.

"With the modern fields of conflict shifting and changing at an ever increasing pace, we are seeing the development and almost abandonment of equipment and technology at an ever increasing rate. But, I ask you, what fundamental level of the battle field has remained constant? Is their any area of conflict that has not changed?" Now the speaker pauses to allow the audience's minds to catch up with their line of reasoning and thought.

"What element of engagement has remained constant, even since the time of Hannibal and other classical great leaders?" Again a slight pause for thought and dramatic, "Why the common fighting professional! That's right, through out history, the fundamental unit of might has rested upon the shoulders of the common personnel that make up the marrow of any fighting force." The screen behind the speaker now highlights the men and women that have filled the plethora of positions within fighting forces across the ages and countries.

"So, why not apply research to the fundamentals of the combat equation? Why not create a combat Drone that is more than just a simple machine? Why not let the flexibility of nature, herself rampant through out her history as dripping red from tooth and claw, show us the advantage of a biological combat unit?" The lights dim upon the speaker to highlight the screen and the image of a single blank figure. Slowly this figure resolves into a person wearing a modern array of 'battle' dress. A rifle, combat webbing, back pack, helmet. Also are an array of electronic equipment such as vision enhancing goggles, small aerials/antennas, wiring and other 'gizmos'. Now other figures step 'backwards' away and 'out' of the initial figure, again wearing different hi-tech military outfits and uniforms better suited to naval and aircraft operations. More figures 'unmeld', showing yet more and more outfits and styles, until a crowd of people fill the screen. In unison they lift their helmets/caps/visors and the audience gasps even as the presentation music cuts out, leaving the sounds of pistol hammers cocking back to report loudly in the darkness.

The theatre lights brighten to reveal the four 'usherettes' are all identical figures in trim uniforms and covering the assembled impressive figures with compact, but nasty looking, pistols. The group eyes their acosters with trepidation.

"Thank you ladies, thank you. Stand down." The speaker smiles as the four holster their weapons in the same choreographed motion.

"May I present project 'Combat Bio=Drone'!" The speaker adds with a flourish.

"Not just a weapons system, but a comprehensive package that has a myriad of other, every day uses." The screen now fills with images of call-centers 'manned' by ranks of 'Bio Drones'. "For where companies need to reduce over heads." Other images of gleaming white lab rooms with pale, smoke suited figures going about the routine and boring work of testing and retesting test tube vials. As the Quantok company presenter is about to finish their presentation with another adulation promoting the product a dissenting voice rings out,

"What about the Tank fiasco?" The speaker stalls, glancing towards the heckler. Adjusting their suit, they change tack, though some of the audience continue to look at the four women who, only moments before, had held them at gun point. The four women continue to look back, neutrally, standing ready. The speaker clears their throat with a faux cough,

"The B.R.O.N.T.O.S. muti-track was a system which had been deemed 'obsolete' by the very criteria this demonstration had displayed. The fact that under the guidance of these." The Speaker's arms sweep around the room to encompass the four women, "The mutli-track was able to beat double the assigned number of enemy weapons systems that had been slated to the test is the final proof and validation the 'Bio-Drone' system needed." Now the speaker glares at the dissenting voice, pushing their glasses authoritatively higher upon their nose. The dissenter simply huffs, folds their arms and settles deeper into their chair, the expression upon their face still dark and brooding.

A single set of hands begin to clap as the large, importantly seated figure in the central front row stands.

"Bravo, bravo, you have my attention and you have my confidence. Now, enough with the theatrics, show me the real, hard data." The commander in chief of the nations armed forces walks forward, hand presented for a 'business' man's hand shake.

Said last character owes much inspiration to the artist "Jolly Jack"


Screening requirements are something else entirely from the depth of the background. If the initial recruitment stress oceans and swashbuckling, than someone making a mountain druid with a dire bear animal companion deserves to not get selected. On the other hand, if someone has a cool concept that isn't fully fleshed out or doesn't quite work mechanically, I might be willing to work with them on it, and possibly create a really memorable character. This is harder to do when the concept has too much baggage already attached; at that point, it's either I like the concept or I don't, and if I don't, it's much more work to change existing material, assuming the person behind is even open to the possibility.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I'm definitely a member of the "Short Background" crew. While I appreciate a good story driven background, I've found as a player in many games, that except for setting the stage for how my character reacts as the game begins, and giving a reason to be where I am, it' not only wasted effort...well I guess nothing creative is wasted, but largely much of what I write doesn't even pertain as the game develops.

Most often, my character begins with a concept, but then interactions with the other players, lucky or unlucky dice rolls, and NPC / setting interactions are what drive my character. The background becomes a test to see if we're willing to commit to the game, more that a useful tool. In my table top games I like the brief background now, and let the players retrospectively tell their story as the game continues. I like to give them the creative license to create a person, place or thing, and tie that to their background as the PC develops.

When I first started DMing I required long back stories, and portraits and all kinds of other player investment...but now find that a brief concept is best, and let the PC's develop as the game develops. I guess that's why I find myself playing more systems like FATE, that don't force the player into certain roles. The aspect system by it's nature encourages this type of development.

As far as following the DM's instructions...I couldn't agree more. I can't tell you how many times I've applied for a game then while reading the other PC concepts wonder if they even read the post. Only core rules should mean...only core rules...so many people then post well it's core except for (INSERT BROKEN FEAT HERE) or some other such nonsense. Usually if I see that type of player is going to be part of the game I'll respectfully bow out, because I know they are all about their character, and not interested in contributing to making the story good for everyone. Don't get me wrong they're good roleplayers... they just don't play well with others. The fun thing about all RPG's in my opinion, is the group dynamic, and when I see "me" type Players I stay away. And in every case so far, the game hasn't last long when those type of players are involved.

Sovereign Court

scranford wrote:

I'm definitely a member of the "Short Background" crew. While I appreciate a good story driven background, I've found as a player in many games, that except for setting the stage for how my character reacts as the game begins, and giving a reason to be where I am, it' not only wasted effort...well I guess nothing creative is wasted, but largely much of what I write doesn't even pertain as the game develops.

I expect you've hit on the main reason I like the long, well thought out backgrounds (except for the obvious dedication and commitment it shows)- I mine my player's background for hooks, antagonists etc.

In my KM game pretty much every character has had (or will have- some of the plans are a bit more long term) elements from their backstory come into play. Casimir got a few visits from Uncle Stanislaw, the killer of Malthir's brother Karas turned up in the Stolen Lands, bitter and hateful and allowing Malthir to finish him off. Fenna's background as a prophetess has allowed me to give the party mildly useful riddles and prophecies throughout the game, and i'm tying elements from her backstory into the meta-plot.

As for your background being a waste if your not picked- rinse and reuse for other games!


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
scranford wrote:

I'm definitely a member of the "Short Background" crew. While I appreciate a good story driven background, I've found as a player in many games, that except for setting the stage for how my character reacts as the game begins, and giving a reason to be where I am, it' not only wasted effort...well I guess nothing creative is wasted, but largely much of what I write doesn't even pertain as the game develops.

I expect you've hit on the main reason I like the long, well thought out backgrounds (except for the obvious dedication and commitment it shows)- I mine my player's background for hooks, antagonists etc.

In my KM game pretty much every character has had (or will have- some of the plans are a bit more long term) elements from their backstory come into play. Casimir got a few visits from Uncle Stanislaw, the killer of Malthir's brother Karas turned up in the Stolen Lands, bitter and hateful and allowing Malthir to finish him off. Fenna's background as a prophetess has allowed me to give the party mildly useful riddles and prophecies throughout the game, and i'm tying elements from her backstory into the meta-plot.

As for your background being a waste if your not picked- rinse and reuse for other games!

I agree in concept...but in application, I've found that this creates a Catch 22. One of the DM's in our group is in your corner for wanting to develop the game around the characters, however I still firmly believe this can be done during play, not mapped out beforehand. That to me is like an actor going to star in a new play, that reads the plot-line of the play, for his character, in advance, then writes his script without determining how the other actors need to interact with the story.

I'm not arguing that you way is wrong. It's a good thing that there are different styles of Dm's and players here. If were all lucky every now and then we end up with the right mix, and that's where the magic happens.

I think the involved background works with a certain combination of DM/Player, I just think that it's more difficult to make work. Having five people write their story before the story happens, and making it all inter-mesh is a challenge.


That's why I say short paragraph for a background Alexander; it is long enough that it should contain at least a couple hooks for the DM to work with, but not so long that the person is having to work out the character's life history on the slim chance that the submission would get accepted. This is sufficient if the concept is fleshed out further (still only really need half a page) once the character is accepted to enhance those hooks and add a couple more. I can see the need of knowing ahead of time that people are truly interested in playing, and not just trying to waste everybody's time, but there needs to be a middle ground that makes it possible for new players to at least have a chance. Thus, any games I try to run are likely going to have to two stages of recruitment; one for the mining of concepts, and one to firm up concepts and shake out anyone who is just wasting my time. I would also look for indications of the direction the character would likely to be developed, as future development is just as important as past growth.


Writing a campaign around the players also requires a particular blend amongst the players themselves in order to make sure that the inter party conflict does not exceed a level that the players and DM are comfortable with. That is probably my biggest concern with writing a life's history without having any idea of what the party is going to look like; it is too easy to end up with a level of inner conflict within the party that makes adventuring difficult at best. I'll come up with ideas in my head, and try to get the basic outline fully presented in the submission, but I would rather wait on details until I know that the ideas I have in my head won't cause the party to disintegrate.


scranford wrote:
As far as following the DM's instructions...I couldn't agree more. I can't tell you how many times I've applied for a game then while reading the other PC concepts wonder if they even read the post. Only core rules should mean...only core rules...so many people then post well it's core except for (INSERT BROKEN FEAT HERE) or some other such nonsense. Usually if I see that type of player is going to be part of the game I'll respectfully bow out, because I know they are all about their character, and not interested in contributing to making the story good for everyone. Don't get me wrong they're good roleplayers... they just don't play well with others.

This statement is golden, scranford! And I've done the same thing - withdrew from recruitments and even games when one or two such players are involved. Life's too short to be a tag-along on a player's "solo" adventure.


hedgeknight wrote:
scranford wrote:
As far as following the DM's instructions...I couldn't agree more. I can't tell you how many times I've applied for a game then while reading the other PC concepts wonder if they even read the post. Only core rules should mean...only core rules...so many people then post well it's core except for (INSERT BROKEN FEAT HERE) or some other such nonsense. Usually if I see that type of player is going to be part of the game I'll respectfully bow out, because I know they are all about their character, and not interested in contributing to making the story good for everyone. Don't get me wrong they're good roleplayers... they just don't play well with others.
This statement is golden, scranford! And I've done the same thing - withdrew from recruitments and even games when one or two such players are involved. Life's too short to be a tag-along on a player's "solo" adventure.

A good point, if specific sources are listed, the only way I even think about going outside of them is if the background that comes to me really, really, really supports it. In these cases, I will provide whatever extra background is required to justify the possibility, and I fully expect the non listed option to be used by the DM to the fullest against me.


I'm a bit more of a middle length kind of DM when it comes to background. A paragraph, maybe two, can be enough to convince me if it is well-written and well-developed. Don't underestimate parsimony.


I usually take a moment to also click on a person's Avatar and look at their list of avatars and recent posts.

I find that recent posts is a good way to judge actual play behaviour and posting responses. It gives me a feel for what games a person is and how active they are when it comes to posting.

Sovereign Court

Smerg wrote:

I usually take a moment to also click on a person's Avatar and look at their list of avatars and recent posts.

I find that recent posts is a good way to judge actual play behaviour and posting responses. It gives me a feel for what games a person is and how active they are when it comes to posting.

+1. Another very important step in player selection.


Warning: Blatant Self Promotion

I mentioned that I have a 'secret weapon' for making compelling background stories. Minimus

That character creation method starts with "What caused you to become an adventurer? What changes happened in your life?"

It also continues through "Name three characters who are linked to yours, two friends, one person who dislikes you..."

And "Create two goals your character is willing to risk their life to achieve?"

I find that those three things, more than anything else, give GMs a good way to assess how a character will fit into the story they're telling.

The Exchange

This thread is a great way to help players and DMs decide how to take part in the games. The advice about how to successfully apply for a game is great too.
The worst situation I have been in was when two enthusiastic new players joined a new homebrew game I'd written around the characters. Their enthusiasm evaporated and with it went all my efforts. As a DM, I will never write a game around any individual again.
I don't mind losing a few players at the beginning if they can be replaced easily but usually that means looking for someone with a proven track record. A trustworthy player, like scranford, who will add something to the game.
There does seem to be far more players than DMs these days. A couple of years ago there would be five to ten applications for a new game. Now it is far higher.
My advice rafon is start your own game. Just read a couple of threads and find a style that suits you then go for it. We need more DM's. Sounds like most conventions I've been too.

Cheers

Sovereign Court

I think my post somehow got misinterpreted about writing the adventure around my PC's. That is not at all what I meant.

The Exchange

From what I have read of your Kingmaker game, AK, I'd have said your players backgrounds provide you with sub plots that mesh with the game. My mistake was making the entire plot around a player. Once she stopped posting things collapsed.

Cheers


This thread is interesting in that there is no one answer to how do things, and yet everyone has managed to remain civil and polite so far. I congratulate you all for that impressive accomplishment. Really though, it seems to come down to how good a job the DM does in explaining their expectations, and how well the would be players respond to the expectations put forward as well the expectations not explicitly stated.


I couldn't agree more with the "no one answer to how to do things". What I would say is that there are some wrong things you can do (and I have done all of them).

PbP is a funny beast. It opens the door to fantastic roleplay, often of a much higher order than you'll see at a tablegame. For me, that's gold. I'm not really much of a fan of hugely detailed backgrounds. If players give them to me, I will use them, but like French Wolf I've been badly bitten by writing stuff around a character or characters who disappeared.

I like something just to give me and the rest of the players a flavour of who this character is, what motivates them, any little quirks they have, but I don't ask for, or expect, much more than a sentence or two. As a player, I often don't know much about my own characters until they start playing, so I'm hardly in a position to complain if my players do the same thing.

The real kicker is commitment. If you're running a game you have to grit your teeth and roll those 17 kobolds whether you want to or not. You can't just vanish for no reason. You have to keep finding ways to let your players use those hard won skills or magic items. It is very time consuming, can be very frustrating and there are days when I really just plain don't want to do it. It's a pain in the neck keeping tabs on who has posted and who hasn't. It's worrying when you realise someone hasn't posted or their character starts off enthused and then starts to fade. Those are the times you have to start asking if you're giving them the things they want. It's a constant balancing act and it is made more difficult because you can't see your players. You're not getting any of the non-verbal clues you'd pick up in 20 seconds at the table. Big down side.

The big up side? When it works, it's golden. Better than a table game, because it's more immersive. The characters live in a way that can't happen when you can see the actual players. Better than a table game because as a DM you have a "backstage". You don't have to respond instantly. You can get the rules faff right, you can think about that bizarre but possibly brilliant idea the characters had and make a sensible decision about it. And the same applies to the players. They often have bizarre but brilliant ideas in a pbp - far more often than they do in a live game.

Anyway, I've been DMing here for about two and a half years now and it's been worth the anguish over learning to make maps and cursing myself for building the wrong sort of encounter. Go for it.

Oh. Apologies for the wall of text.

Sovereign Court

As a DM I like to see a reasonably long background, so long as it is well written an informs me about the character. I'm not a big fan of cliched or overly dramatic backgrounds as a rule, but I do want to know that the player has thought about who their character is and to some extent what has forged their world view.

I'll nearly always plump for the player that has taken the trouble to provide a fuller backstory because that extra effort speaks well of their commitment and desire to participate in the game. From my own experience in applying for games backstorys I spend a lot of time over are not wasted because they tend to get me into games. Generally I also rather enjoy coming up with backgrounds, which certainly helps to.


With a good group, it is very worth it. Some days, especially busy days, it can be tough to give it the right attention that it deserves.


I suspect I'll find out both the joys and headaches soon enough. I ordered the first part to Serpent's Skull earlier this weekend, so in a couple of weeks, I will be looking to embarrass myself by DMing it.


Sun Shadow: If you are doing a PbP, I'd recommend using the time you have to start learning MapTool, and to setup a website to which you can upload map updates (I myself use MediaWiki). Likewise, if you didn't download it earlier, get ShortKeys and setup some macros to handle things like initiative, d20 rolls, etc.

I have a few handy macros for both MapTool and ShortKeys that I'm willing to share that should save you a lot of time. I've also got a map of Smuggler's Shiv (from SS#1) setup using the version Paizo released in the blog. All the forests and cliffs are already blocked in for the line-of-sight calculations which should save you about 3-4 hours of work.

Just shoot an email to my username at DeathElf dot com if you are interested, and I'll email you what I've got.

Sovereign Court

Laithoron wrote:

Sun Shadow: If you are doing a PbP, I'd recommend using the time you have to start learning MapTool, and to setup a website to which you can upload map updates (I myself use MediaWiki). Likewise, if you didn't download it earlier, get ShortKeys and setup some macros to handle things like initiative, d20 rolls, etc.

I have a few handy macros for both MapTool and ShortKeys that I'm willing to share that should save you a lot of time. I've also got a map of Smuggler's Shiv (from SS#1) setup using the version Paizo released in the blog. All the forests and cliffs are already blocked in for the line-of-sight calculations which should save you about 3-4 hours of work.

Just shoot an email to my username at DeathElf dot com if you are interested, and I'll email you what I've got.

Nice work :).

I just use imageshack to host my maptools images, I have the uploader on single click in my taskbar.

Tell me a little about shortkeys? My fingers are currently aching from updating rogue trader (far more typing for a round update than DND).


I bought Campaign Cartographer some time ago, so I will probably dust it off and hopefully not go insane figuring it out. As for Shortkeys, I will check it out tomorrow.


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Sun Shadow: Making the maps and using them are two different things (where a PbP is concerned anyway). CC is great for making them, but MapTool is what you would use for your Virtual Table Top so that you can have minis, count off grid squares, calculate line-of-sight, keep track of HP, etc. While MapTool can be used to make rudimentay maps, it is really geared towards running a game.

If that doesn't make much sense, then have a look at the following page. Start at the bottom and work your way up and it should become clear what I'm talking about:
Dunwaar Street Fight

Most of the time, I actually don't even bother with making maps from scratch. I simply find a good one on the web, import it, size the grid appropriately and rock-on with it. Also, while MapTool can be used as a client/server interface for real-time games, I myself prefer to take screenshot and upload them since part of the point of a PbP is that not everyone needs to be online at the same time.

Alexander: Shortkeys allows you to define blocks of text that can be inserted with only a few keystrokes. Since it's probably easier to SHOW you than to explain it, here's the ones I have setup for my Rumble in the Jungle PbP...

NOTE: I've inserted spaces in the following tags so you can actually SEE what's going on.

Typing "prtb" yields:
[ b]Bluff Checks[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + 13[ /dice] +1 seductive[ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + 14[ /dice] +1 attraction, +1 liar[ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 - 2[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + 5[ /dice][ /ooc]

Typing "prtm" yields":
[ b]Sense Motive Checks:[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + 13[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + 2[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 + 2[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + 8[ /dice][ /ooc]

prti:
[ b]Initiative Rolls[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + 6[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + 2[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 + 4[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + 4[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]Enemies [ dice]1d20 + [ /dice][ /ooc]

prtp:
[ b]Perception Checks[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + 11[ /dice] +1 trapfinding[ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + 9[ /dice] +1 trapfinding[ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 + 11[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + 18[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]T [ dice]1d20 + 6[ /dice][ /ooc]

prts:
[ b]Stealth Checks[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + 12[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + 8[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 + 11[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + 8[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]T [ dice]1d20 + 8[ /dice][ /ooc]

prtx: (blank party check template)
[ b] Checks[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + [ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + [ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 + [ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + [ /dice][ /ooc]

savf:
[ b]Fort Saves[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + 2[ /dice] +5 disease, +1 neg/death, +5 poison[ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + 5[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 + 7[ /dice] +1 energy drain, +4 fey, +1 death[ /ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + 9[ /dice] -2 cold[ /ooc]

savr:
[ b]Reflex Saves[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + 10[ /dice] evasion[ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + 6[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 + 5[ /dice][ /ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + 10[ /dice][ /ooc]

savw:
[ b]Will Saves[ /b]
[ ooc]A [ dice]1d20 + 7[ /dice] +2 enchant[ /ooc]
[ ooc]L [ dice]1d20 + 7[ /dice] +1 mind-affect[ /ooc]
[ ooc]M [ dice]1d20 + 7[ /dice] +2 enchant, +4 fey, +2 mind-affect[/ooc]
[ ooc]P [ dice]1d20 + 14[ /dice] +2 charm, +1 mind-affect[ /ooc]

sdr:
[ spoiler="Rolls"]

/sdr:
[ /spoiler]

qot:
[ quote=""][ b][ /b][ /quote]
 
bgr:
[ b]"[ bigger][ /bigger]"[ /b]

wsp: (whisper)
[ b]"[ smaller][ /smaller]"[ /b]

lnk: (link)
[ b]: [ url=][ /url][ /b]

dfn: (definition)
[ ooc][ b]:[ /b] [ /ooc]

drm: (dramatic chipmunk)
[ url=http://paizo.com/PRD/skills/stealth.html] [ /url]

dwp: (same keys as d20 on a Droid's keyboard)
[ ooc] [ dice]1d20 + [ /dice][ /ooc]

cln: (calendar)
[ bigger][ b][ url=http://wiki.worldsunknown.com/wiki/Calendar]LK Calendar:[ /url][ /b] Month DD, 4210 — Alsday Daegsday Lakusday Rosday Lansday Starsday[ /bigger]

hpr: (HP remaining)
[ ooc][ b]A hp:[/b] [ dice] - [ /dice]/22 [ /ooc]
[ ooc][ b]F hp:[/b] [ dice] - [ /dice]/39 [ /ooc]
[ ooc][ b]L hp:[/b] [ dice] - [ /dice]/33 [ /ooc] SR 12, ER5: Cold Fire Shock
[ ooc][ b]M hp:[/b] [ dice] - [ /dice]/47 [ /ooc]
[ ooc][ b]P hp:[/b] [ dice] - [ /dice]/31 [ /ooc] ER5: Acid Fire Shock

mapl: (map links: one to current revision, one to that specific update)
[ b]MAP: [ url=http://wiki.worldsunknown.com/wiki/File:White-Pearl.jpg]The White Pearl[ /url], ([ /b][ url=] [ /url][ b])[ /b]

nxt: (next)
[ bigger][ b]Next Up: [ /b][ /bigger],

sdc: (spoiler DC)
[ spoiler=" DC "][ /spoiler]

nbl: (animé explanation for nosebleeds)
[ url=http://www.abcb.com/ency/n/nosebleed.htm] [ /url]

snz: (animé explanation for sneezing)
[ url=http://www.abcb.com/ency/s/sneezing.htm]sneezes[ /url]

xpt: (xp total)
[ b]XP:[/b]+ each [ ooc]([ dice] + [ /dice]/23000)[ /ooc]

As you can see, with just 3 or 4 quick keystrokes, I save myself the hassle of having to copy/paste from text files or (worse still) having to repeatedly look-up and retype the same information over and over and over again.

Defining new shortcuts involves double-clicking in a blank area of the interface (i.e. bld perhaps for bold), then typing out the text that you want to have inserted whenever you type that shortcut. The only 'trick' to any of this is picking shortcuts that you will not type unless you mean to. Hence using "xp" for my experience total script would have been a bad idea since it would get triggered when I typed expert or expect, etc.

When you type one of the shortcuts you have defined, the shortcut you type is replaced with whatever text you defined. It works in everything from Notepad to Siebel to MS Word to the text areas in a web browser.

I think the free version of ShortKeys only allows 10 macros, but this is one of the few shareware apps I've actually purchased because it's that damned useful. There's a similar program called FireKeys that I use on my Droid, although I usually only worry about typing dialog or narrative on there rather than actual combat encounters.

The Exchange

Thought I'd drop some advice in here since some of the DM's I get inspiration from have done so.

Use Map Tools. Once you learn it, it's invaluable. Create the map, place grid and coordonates, screenshot and upload to your website of preference for a link.

You get maps like this Map Link

I've created tokens for all the players in my two PbP and saved them. With each token, I've created macros for initiative and their basic attacks in case I need to NPC them. This speeds up my DMing no end, since I use map tools for all my rolls, then relay that info in game without the players ever having seen a roll I've done. It also means I don't need to generate the dice text in the actual game page, submit, then go back and edit the text with suitable in game description.

This program has saved me tons of time, and is the only reason I can run two PbP rather than just one.

As for backgrounds, I really like them so I can use bits to really tie the characters to the game. The RotRL game I am running here has an entire subplot generated because of a characters background that just snowballed into something completely tangential to the plot.

I've tried the same with my Kingmaker game, but that one has struggled due to the exploration nature of the game and some absences from players breaking momentum.

Overall, GMing is great, but like Rev Rosey says, it's a real commitment. Make sure to let your players know if your struggling for time so they can expect delays, and check with them often for things they might like to see happen or to make sure they're enjoying themselves.

Cheers


Ah, maps. I must take a look at Maptool. Campaign Cartographer makes my brain bleed.

I have a problematic relationship with technology and do things quick and dirty.

Best £16.00 I ever spent was on Fractal Mapper (available at Drivethru RPG). It's capable of producing a decent map with minimal effort - which is important for me as I'm running five games at the moment.

These get loaded into Flickr without any pcs on them and I add monsters and pcs as text. It's very quick to update and I just keep the link posted at the start of the init list.

This is a map for a combat that's just starting. Pink things are the monsters, blue are the pcs and yellow are the non combatants. As those are all just bits of text, I can pick them up and move them around very easily. Not a thing of beauty, but it works well enough.

@Laitheron - Shortkeys sounds wonderful. I shall look into it. Multiple monster rolls are the bane of my life.


I prefer my GoogleDocs, which have the benefit of giving the PCs the ability to move themselves. It isn't quite as pretty, but no uploading and the ability to let the players move themselves is pretty invaluable.

Example


DM Barcas wrote:

I prefer my GoogleDocs, which have the benefit of giving the PCs the ability to move themselves. It isn't quite as pretty, but no uploading and the ability to let the players move themselves is pretty invaluable.

Example

I take it characters are shown by typing a code or name into a cell on this?


You might not be able to see them if you're not signed in as an editor. They're represented by the icons they use to post.

Sovereign Court

I use photoshop and simply edit preexisting maps to get what I want, if you have a decent grasp of the software its quick and easy. Avatars are very easy to move around by simply having them in an upper layer.

Altered Country House map Outside
Same Map altered to show interior of House.


Great suggestions! I shall look into them!

I've learned from Scipion del Ferro to use Yer Olde Map Makerr. Very simple and intuitive.

You grab the map (using Grab on the Mac) and insert it in Inkscape (Illustrator-like freeware, at least for the Mac). Gives me this.

Also, Scipion showed me how to use a pdf extractor to get maps from the APs (then thrown in Inkscape to put layers. It's great for KM (I won't show it because it would spoil the fun of many).

(Thanks Scipion!)

Sovereign Court

I do a lot of extracting maps from PDFs, but in general I find that its a lot easier to use a simple screen capture tool rather than a PDF extractor - this may be due to my inexperience with the extractor I use. I use the free Wisdom-soft Screenhunter 5.1

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