Silent Image


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

This spell allows a will save if interacted with. Does this mean if you create a wall, the opposition cannot see through it (no save) until they touch it?


Shar Tahl wrote:
This spell allows a will save if interacted with. Does this mean if you create a wall, the opposition cannot see through it (no save) until they touch it?

The way illusion spells work specifically and beyond the bounds of the school description in the magic section of the core rulebook is largely dependent on GM interpretation. For example, I'm not even sure disbelieving an illusion allows you to see through it. It just will allow you to act with that knowledge.

Other things that could cause a will save... a perception check to notice the imperfect seam between the illusion and surrounding terrain, seeing something pass through it (obviously), lack of shadow, etc.

From the SRD: "Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion."


Shar Tahl wrote:
This spell allows a will save if interacted with. Does this mean if you create a wall, the opposition cannot see through it (no save) until they touch it?

Yes.

In fact, it was further mentioned that "interacting" with an illusion usually takes a specific action to do so. Keep in mind a Silent Image is roughly equal to a really elaborate paper construct - it can cover things, but it cannot change the way something looks, nor make anything invisible, and it probably cannot even generate light, although I'm not sure of that...


Senevri wrote:
Shar Tahl wrote:
This spell allows a will save if interacted with. Does this mean if you create a wall, the opposition cannot see through it (no save) until they touch it?

Yes.

In fact, it was further mentioned that "interacting" with an illusion usually takes a specific action to do so. Keep in mind a Silent Image is roughly equal to a really elaborate paper construct - it can cover things, but it cannot change the way something looks, nor make anything invisible, and it probably cannot even generate light, although I'm not sure of that...

It cannot generate light, but it can provide the illusion of light within it's area of effect.


Shar Tahl wrote:
This spell allows a will save if interacted with. Does this mean if you create a wall, the opposition cannot see through it (no save) until they touch it?

The key word isn't "touch", it's "Interact".

A good, fair, rule of thumb is to allow any action which scrutinizes or tests the wall to count as "interacting" with it.

This could mean making an active perception check if the wall looks suspiciously out of place. It could mean attacking the wall, or trying to put your back to it as cover (at which point you don't feel it and then may realize that it's an illusion). The point is that in order to make the save, one must sacrifice an action. Exceptions include interaction-by-consequence, such as being bull-rushed through the wall, or falling through an illusory floor.

The interesting thing about Silent Image is that you could make illusory fog or smoke, which isn't solid anyway. Then when a random arrow flies through it there's no reason to scrutinize it.

If the caster is concentrating, and an arrow goes through the illusion, but the wall is well within the area of effect, then the caster can potentially make an illusory arrow silently bounce off the wall (while the real one goes through).

My personal favorite uses of Silent Image include false structures that hide the party (to ambush or avoid), false floors to conceal hazards, false clouds of fog that allow 1-way attacks, and visual communication (like making a 3-D map for battle plans or to show the party something I saw while scouting invisibly). You can also run behind cover/concealment and then make an illusory "you" silently step out of cover, making it look like you failed a stealth check and were spotted. Great way to lure an enemy into an ambush.


Made me remember when my players in Way of the Wicked were setting traps on their newly acquired dungeon. There were some pit traps which didn't have any trap floor on them so they were obvious.
After looking at the ridiculous costs of repairing the traps, they decided casting a permanent image of a floor and then they asked a witch friend of them to cast mask dweomer once a week on the illusions to try to avoid them to be detected with detect magic. A lot cheaper and a lot more effective, they said!
I love creative uses of illusions, they are among my favorite spells of the game.

Scarab Sages

Shar Tahl wrote:
This spell allows a will save if interacted with. Does this mean if you create a wall, the opposition cannot see through it (no save) until they touch it?

Yes and no.

As long as the "opposition" doesn't have reason to doubt the wall, and they don't touch it, then no saves are allowed.

Even if they have reason to doubt the wall, but lack time to scrutize it, they get no saves, but will likely act on the assumption that it is an illusion (For example, if you cast the spell in front of them and they pass their spellcraft to ID your spell, but are too distracted by combat with more threatening PCs to actually care about the created wall).

If they actually scrutize (as in study) the illusion, or touch it, or shoot an arrow at it, or otherwise interact, they get a save. If they pass their save, the silent image is still there, but more transparent and obviously an illusion. So, for example, if the purpose of your silent image is more than just illusion (like a sign that points to a trap you discovered), disbelieving in the image won't prevent it from being a useful sign.

Dark Archive

By the same token as Murdock, just because you failed a save v.s. an illusion, doesn't mean you cannot bypass it. Putting your hand through an illusory wall won't grant the person a save, they will disbelieve the illusion, because they have proof that the illusion isn't real.

Spending a move action to inspect the wall would grant a save. Trying to touch it should auto-succeed.


Ultimate Intrigue actually says that it should take a minimum of a standard action of interacting with an illusion to warrant even a save, never mind an auto-disbelieve.


Ectar wrote:

By the same token as Murdock, just because you failed a save v.s. an illusion, doesn't mean you cannot bypass it. Putting your hand through an illusory wall won't grant the person a save, they will disbelieve the illusion, because they have proof that the illusion isn't real.

Spending a move action to inspect the wall would grant a save. Trying to touch it should auto-succeed.

For Silent Image, yes. I gather that making the wall "feel" real would take Mirage Arcana or Minor/Major Phantom Object. What if it's a Shadow Conjuration wall?

Liberty's Edge

I do wish we would get a FAQ response on Ghost Sound it supposed to enhance the effectiveness of Silent Image but if does not say who it does it.


I say a standard action spent studying the wall from afar would be enough. I imagine that the illusions work like "optical illusions" where you could realize it is just a trick if you stare at it long enough. In the case of disbelieving an illusory wall, I would say that you still see it, but gain the ability to focus on what is beyond it. Sort of looking at that optical illusion picture of a lamp and being able to see the two faces instead.

Scarab Sages

Ectar wrote:

By the same token as Murdock, just because you failed a save v.s. an illusion, doesn't mean you cannot bypass it. Putting your hand through an illusory wall won't grant the person a save, they will disbelieve the illusion, because they have proof that the illusion isn't real.

Spending a move action to inspect the wall would grant a save. Trying to touch it should auto-succeed.

Proof depends on the illusion created by the caster.

If the caster creates a hardy stone wall via silent image, and you wave your hand through it, yeah, that's proof, since you know that stone walls don't work like that.

If the caster creates ghostly looking wall via silent image, and you wave your have through it, not that's not proof because it's reasonable to conclude that a ghostly wall would allow your hand effortlessly pass through it.

Though you are correct, that failing saves doesn't prevent characters from choosing to ignore "figment" illusions and choosing walk through illusory walls.

Just like, failing to notice the illusion, can allow players to fall into pits that have illusions of clear terrain over them...

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