RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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Aura strong conjuration [evil]; CL 14th
Slot —; Price 95,000 gp; Weight —
Description
Seeming at first like a pair of thin daggers, these exquisite knitting needles of tarnished silver are used to knit a creature from shadow during combat. The needles create a Fine gate to the Plane of Shadow from which spins a thin strand of shadowstuff into dusky wool, supplying the yarn for the needles. Used actively, the needles knit a preselected creature (per the table below) in a number of rounds indicated by a Craft (knitting) skill check. Every increment of 5 over the DC reduces the knit time by 1 round (1 round minimum) while failure by 5 or more indicates a failure to even cast on. Knitting shadow is a full-round action.
Craft DC Creature Max Rounds
10 Shadow 3
15 Greater shadow 5
20 Shadow demon 8
The needles can also be used passively. When released into the air they begin working on their own like a dancing weapon, furiously knitting for the number of rounds indicated for the creature preselected before releasing the needles (without the 4 round limit). With either use, the creature forms as an inanimate blanket of shadow, becoming fully animate on the completion round. It attacks enemies in battle as if by monster summoning. When used actively, the character is also under the effects of a CL 14 sanctuary spell. The character's hands are occupied for each full round and only minor free actions are allowed without interrupting the pattern.
These sinister needles are attributed to hags, succubi and similarly malevolent feminine beings.
Construction
Requirements Craft (knitting), Craft Wondrous Item, darkness, summon monster VI; Cost 47,500 gp.
OK before I read it, I said "now that is a cool name." Pretty much you throw ebon in there and I'm interested.
Let's see how it pans out.
Oh I love it! Now that is one fancy spell in a can. But wait, there's more! Its a dancing spell in a can.
I love this item. This is the kind of creativity I am looking for in a contestant.
It has a big mechanical flaw of course, and that is: how the heck do you adjudicate actions against the "shadow wool" during the rounds that it is being knitted? Surely PCs will see the shadow stuff forming. Can they dispell the knitted stuff before it forms an undead? Can they atttack it? Can they attack the needles? It gives sanctuary to the user while using it actively, but what about when you toss them up like dancing knitting needles of shadow awesomeness? Plus, how long does it last? Can I make more than one? What ability do I have to control the creature--I presume as per the summon monster spell, but I'm not sure that is good enough.
I'm going to have to think about whether this glaring omission kills these for me. I like them. You both will likely think I am insane :)
Its nice to finally see some mojo around here.
You know, I really spent some time with this. It just does everything I want. It makes me want to see more. The big flaw is something the author is going to have to address in later rounds. Here is what swayed me--if I was the developer, I wouldnt have kicked this out. I would have loved the item and contacted the author to make a clarification. We cant' expect perfection in round 1. The contestant has to have room to grow. Plus if our standard was perfection we'd have a top 3, not a top 32. This author is going to have to learn to really think through the game implications of his or her item.
But this has got the goods. You're going to Hollywood, baby!
I like it. It needs some work, but it shows some innovation, it's clever.
Keep!
Yeah, I like this one too. Clark's totally right, the entire angle that tells me how I attack this thing isn't there and that is pretty serious. The concept floats though - I can't believe I'm saying that about knitting needles.
Rad. Mojo.
Awesome name that just oozes flavor...or maybe it just oozes shadow-stuff? I love what this item does. The judges are right that it needs some additional mechanical explanation, but hey...you know what?...so did my last leaves of the autumn dryad last year. So, I would encourage you to come out swinging in the next round and look for ways to demonstrate you've tightened up your rules-fu and you'll be more than ready to rumble. The idea behind these knitting needles is very innovative and the language you've used to describe them is also very cool.
Small nitpicks: I would have liked to see a more professional presentation using the wondrous item template here. Bolding each section header (like, Aura, CL, Slot, Price, Weight, etc.) would make it pop and demonstrate your attention to detail. Same goes for italicizing your spell names in the construction requirements. Knowing how to do those things is really a function of understanding how BBCode works here in the forum submission tool. So, it's not that big a deal. I just think it would have visually made your item look even better in its presentation.
I also want to point out one thing I think you did really well that a lot of people overlook. You gave us a very small snippet of backstory, saved it until the very end, and just hinted at the origin of these knitting needles in a way that keeps people thinking about your item as they finish reading it. That, is very well done, in my opinion. Too many people expound far too long on an item's backstory and origin, putting it way up at the front of an item's description, and that bogs down the reader when he really just wants to get to the physical description of the item and what it can mechanically do in the game. So, kudos to you for how you handled it.
And...welcome to the ranks of RPG Superstar! I'm excited for you. I'm excited to see what you'll do next. Don't take your foot off the gas pedal, though. You really need to bring something awesome next round to show you can completely think through your next submission. Best of luck!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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Star Voter Season 6
aka raidou
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This is a really great, compelling item that I'd love to try out at some point. I think you exactly capture the imagery needed to make this thing pop. The "dancing" effect is genius.
I would have liked it to allow a more free-form monster creation by way of shadow conjuration and similar spells. I'm also not entirely sold on the automatic sanctuary effect enjoyed by the user. I think that addition may push the cost up too far for this item to be enjoyed by the right level of play. This is a great item for mid-level characters.
As discussed above, your mechanics and presentation could use some polish. But you've got additional rounds to show us that you've got it under control. You're in! And we're expecting more cool stuff like this in the challenges ahead!
Congrats on making it to RPG Superstar 2010! I asked myself the same three questions for each of the top 32 items. Here are my responses to your item:
Would this wondrous item unbalance or over-complicate my game if my PCs were to find it and use it?
I would put some kind of limitation as to how often this can be used or how many shadows you can summon at one time or how long the shadows persist before dissipating; otherwise someone could just go on knitting forever to summon a shadow army (or am I missing something here? I'm surprised the other judges didn't comment on this). But I think that in general a one shadow at a time rule was implied.
Would my PCs be happy with this item if they were to find it during an adventure?
I would love to see the look on my PCs faces when I told them that they would have to invest skill points in Craft (knitting) to use an item, but I get that this is an item designed for NPC villains and I'm okay with that.
Do I like the mojo? Does the item spark other ideas for my campaign?
The idea of knitting or weaving shadow monsters is killer! I really like this item for that reason. I'm envisioning an encounter where the PCs are talking with a bog hag, disguised as an old woman, who is slowly knitting a shadow from her rocking chair. They don't realize something is amiss until the shadow is almost done and starts to slither across the floor. Awesome!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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I'm so absolutely stunned that I placed in the top 32! I've no idea what to say!? I will say that this is my favorite bit of judge commentary: "The concept floats though - I can't believe I'm saying that about knitting needles." I couldn't believe I was submitting knitting needles! It just felt very right and thanks go to my lovely wife, Dusty, for the very nearby inspiration of her hobby! May she never use these dark beauties on me! Haha!
Thanks to all the judges for recognizing what I really hoped would be some snap, crackle and pop! Also, congratulations to all the other winners on a job very well done indeed!
Now, where's that Monsterdex 'o mine...
Oh, this is so slick. I love it when unprepossessing objects take on a sinister edge in a story/game/etc.
Like Baba Yaga flying in a mortar & pestle, or evil dolls wielding needles and hat-pins, or paper dolls cutting you to ribbons, or the scissors of the awful barber after suck-a-thumb or... this.
I'm also greatly fond of excellent use of shadow creatures. Would have liked to see a greater variety of shadow creatures, like mastiffs, or shadowgarms, etc instead of the greater shadows. But other than that, it was pretty darn awesome.
I'd love to run hags with this item.
I'm surprised, too, to say I'm a fan of the evil knitting needles. But I agree that there needs to be some mechanics for what someone can do to the forming shadowstuff before it comes out all monster-y.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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Oh, this is so slick. I love it when unprepossessing objects take on a sinister edge in a story/game/etc.
Like Baba Yaga flying in a mortar & pestle, or evil dolls wielding needles and hat-pins, or paper dolls cutting you to ribbons, or the scissors of the awful barber after suck-a-thumb or... this.
I'm also greatly fond of excellent use of shadow creatures. Would have liked to see a greater variety of shadow creatures, like mastiffs, or shadowgarms, etc instead of the greater shadows. But other than that, it was pretty darn awesome.
I'd love to run hags with this item.
Many thanks for the kind words about my item! I totally agree! Antique stores are some of the best places for inspirational objects too. You just never know what ideas might jump out at ya.
There's nothing to stop you from changing the shadows these babies knit either. :)
Great job in taking a normal item and making it Wondrous. Good Luck on the next round.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I like it! Household items GONE BAD.
For those worried about creating an army with these, it says they work as summon monster, so the creatures only hang around for 14 rounds and then go poof. Given that it takes at least 3 rounds to knit anything, the absolute maximum you could have at any one time is 6 shadows or 3 greater shadows.
The larger question is, like the Leash of the Shadowhound in 2008, what happens to any spawn created by the undead you create? Are they free-willed undead? That's the place where you can have infinite replication.
That might be a good reason to go with the above poster's suggestion to have the shadow-creatures work like, say, greater shadow conjuration instead of SM (and maybe, as a bonus, if the creature you create with the needles has "shadow" in the name of it, perhaps it's 20% more real than other creatures you create). This would also open up the idea of having greater and lesser versions of these babies.
I rather like the sanctuary effect, and it isn't adding much to the cost of the item, as a secondary effect on an item that is not worn (so 75% price) and only being a 1st level spell anyway.
Also, like Neil said, you provided the note-perfect amount of background. One line, succinct but suggesting far more than it has to say, giving a DM an idea of how to actually USE the item without attaching a bunch of unnecessary lore.
Overall: Nice!
Congratulations on making the next round! I hope that I'll be more in line with your creations next time.
Because my DM verdict on this item? Never. Not ever in my game and I play with knitters.
Why? Because it's an apocalypse item. There's no indication of when these shadow creatures go away. Villains or villainous PCs can knit an army in a few weeks. And shadows create spawns. As soon as this item gets invented in a world, you have to design a world response to the item. True, it's 95K but a nigh-infinite army of shadow creatures would be worth that. And god help us all if this showed up in an Age of Worms campaign.
For those worried about creating an army with these, it says they work as summon monster, so the creatures only hang around for 14 rounds and then go poof.Respectfully, no, it doesn't say that. It says:
"It attacks enemies in battle as if by monster summoning. "
That's not the same thing as being exactly like Monster Summoning. There's no way it would be worth 95K if it were. It means that the monsters ATTACK following the same patterns as the spell describes and nothing more.
Sorry, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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For those worried about creating an army with these, it says they work as summon monster, so the creatures only hang around for 14 rounds and then go poof.Respectfully, no, it doesn't say that. It says:"It attacks enemies in battle as if by monster summoning. "That's not the same thing as being exactly like Monster Summoning.
I wonder, are there other forms of monster summoning in PFRPG other than SM/SNA?
Sure there are calling spells like Planar Ally/Binding and Gate. Perhaps the summon swarm/insect plague/creeping doom family would qualify.
You are correct it does not literally say "functions as the summon monster spell"; however, it does list SM6 as the spell prereq, and given that context and the general lack of any other effects in PF that are referred to as "monster summoning," I think it's a pretty reasonable inference. It doesn't really place any other explicit stipulations either, which means the shadow demon could use all of its SLAs without the restrictions SM imposes.
In either case, the designer should have been more clear, and regardless the point still stands that the apocalypse army can be formed from the spawn of the summoned monsters if they follow the SM rules for the duration that they themselves persist.
There's no way it would be worth 95K if it were. It means that the monsters ATTACK following the same patterns as the spell describes and nothing more.
Sorry, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Oh, we don't HAVE to agree even if we do disagree!
If the designer weren't so darn busy banging out round 2, we could ask him what his intention was. Perhaps after the deadline passes.
Incidentally, I rather liked Avinash.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Incidentally, I rather liked Avinash.
*snort* *NEEEIGGGGHHH* *STAMPSTAMPTRAMPLE*
Ah well, another time perhaps.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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I really dig this, since my wife knits and it creeps me out for reasons I cannot explain. Add in shadowy demons and it's gold! Congrats!
My wife mentioned on my blog that she wants a pair... spooky... I mentioned that they could do the dishes - maybe that'll stick. It could happen... Thanks, James! Congrats to you too!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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I've actually seen people knit during games I've played in--this item actually makes that game relevant! Well done.
My wife actually does knit during our sessions and so does her best friend, who also plays. They usually knit socks rather than shadows though. Good thing!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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Congratulations. Despite my slight quibble over whether or not actively using the needles is rewarding enough, if this had been a five votes voting round, you would have bagged one of my votes. :D
Hazah! I'm glad you liked them well enough to "psuedo" vote. I'll take it! I actually can't wait to watch the voting. :)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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If the designer weren't so darn busy banging out round 2, we could ask him what his intention was. Perhaps after the deadline passes.
Howdy! I'm just taking a little break and thought I'd answer up. Clark mentioned that this is a spell in a can that dances. Monster summoning is indeed the intent. The shadows aren't permanent and Jason's right, the most you could have going is 6 shadows or 3 greater shadows going at one time. Also, anyone that has kids (four in my house) knows that knitting up the end of the world would be extremely implausible as knitting is a highly interruptable skill.
When you only have only 300 words, sometimes you have to tread light and make sure you get the concept out there. :)
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I like these and the story uses for them. I'm not so keen on the sanctuary effect for a couple of reasons: dead give-away if some one notices it and/or bit of a free ride for the user if attempting to use these in combat.
I notice that "tarnished silver" seems to be the description choice for shadow related things. Must make note of that for my game. Heh.
This item has a cool name, a cool concept, and a cool delivery. All in all I think that this is one of the best of the top 32, and you should be proud of your item. Great Job!
Good luck in the future rounds!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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This item has a cool name, a cool concept, and a cool delivery. All in all I think that this is one of the best of the top 32, and you should be proud of your item. Great Job!
Good luck in the future rounds!
Wow! High praise and thanks very, very much! I've submitted the next trick up my sleeve and I'm really hoping everyone loves it!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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I love these. They remind me of the weavers in Wanted--taking something so innocuous and turning it into something eeeeeeeeevil. Excellent name and imagery. And such a cool concept. I'm very visual and need to picture something like it's on a movie screen, and this nails it, especially the needles knitting together a shadow on their own. Great entry. Congrats, and I can't wait to see your monster submission!
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Contributor
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Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
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I like that you took a risk with this item, because it could have gone the other way so easily. The mechanics are solid and prove that you're not just trying to get by on a gimmick.
Congratulations and I'm looking forward to your future submissions!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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I love these. They remind me of the weavers in Wanted--taking something so innocuous and turning it into something eeeeeeeeevil. Excellent name and imagery. And such a cool concept. I'm very visual and need to picture something like it's on a movie screen, and this nails it, especially the needles knitting together a shadow on their own. Great entry. Congrats, and I can't wait to see your monster submission!
Yeah I'm so right there with you on the visual thing which means that I really loved your submission too! I want to ride in that bad boy! I've always thought our games were short on underwater or waterborne adventures. I'd love to find a way to work this into the future Savage Tide game I have planned.
Congratulations to you also and best of luck in round 2!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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I like that you took a risk with this item, because it could have gone the other way so easily. The mechanics are solid and prove that you're not just trying to get by on a gimmick.
Congratulations and I'm looking forward to your future submissions!
Thanks! I have to admit that I was a little worried that it'd be seen as a joke item which was definitely not the intent. I'm just waaaay glad it came off as intended.
I'm on pins and needles to see how the voting comes out next week. :)
Contributor
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Boxhead
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I really like these. Really like them. I may have to find a suitable villain to use these, as I too have players that knit during sessions...
Really fun stuff, looking forward to more.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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Great job making the top 32! What an awesome name and visual tied to creating monsters. There's lots of little things that should have been improved on in an ideal world, but nothing game breaking. My biggest concern is that by not having a limit to how often you can use the needles, that forced your price way up, and at the price point it's at, there's a missmatch with the price and the effct. Once you could afford the needles, summoning a CR8 shadow demon isn't that big of a deal - especially not if it takes you 6-8 rounds to knit it into existence. Similarly, the sanctuary effect is a cool way to protect the knitter while they're creating allies, but the save DC for a 1st level spell coming from a wondrous item is only DC 11 (which should have been mentioned in the description.) If you made it a hightened sanctuary, with a higher DC, that would be more approrpriate. It's also odd that sanctuary is not one of the requirements for crafiting. Finally, you mention craft (knitting) as a requirement, but not how many ranks.
Overall, limiting this to 3/day, making it a sanctuary effect heightened to 4th level (save DC 16) and lowering the price to 20K or so would have made a more usable item I think.
Good luck in the next rounds!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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Great job making the top 32! What an awesome name and visual tied to creating monsters. There's lots of little things that should have been improved on in an ideal world, but nothing game breaking. My biggest concern is that by not having a limit to how often you can use the needles, that forced your price way up, and at the price point it's at, there's a missmatch with the price and the effct. Once you could afford the needles, summoning a CR8 shadow demon isn't that big of a deal - especially not if it takes you 6-8 rounds to knit it into existence. Similarly, the sanctuary effect is a cool way to protect the knitter while they're creating allies, but the save DC for a 1st level spell coming from a wondrous item is only DC 11 (which should have been mentioned in the description.) If you made it a hightened sanctuary, with a higher DC, that would be more approrpriate. It's also odd that sanctuary is not one of the requirements for crafiting. Finally, you mention craft (knitting) as a requirement, but not how many ranks.
Overall, limiting this to 3/day, making it a sanctuary effect heightened to 4th level (save DC 16) and lowering the price to 20K or so would have made a more usable item I think.
Good luck in the next rounds!
Thanks! I must say that so far it's been a fun ride. :)
I'm not real keen on starting any sort of debate or anything as much of the modifications you suggest are fairly subjective. There are a few things I'd like to say though, to these and other comments made so far.
The needles do have built in limitations. They're limited by the almost-certain interruptions that occur in combat and by the number of rounds summoned shadows would last before vanishing, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned summon monster in the item not once, but twice. I really don't think it needs to be spelled out further that the needles don't summon permanent, long lasting shadow creatures. Speaking again as to the item's interruptability, I think we can all agree that knitting is an atypical combat action and I think that's part of the charm of the item. If a hag is sitting there on her porch knitting an overlong scarf and grinning at you after you just threatened to lop of her head, then something bad's going to happen. :)
To a lesser degree, the needles are also limited by requiring Craft (knitting). So, a player character is going to have to decide whether they're going to dedicate themselves to this item or not, by taking ranks in the craft, if they want to reduce the summoning time. I don't think it's necessary to set a number of required ranks either, as there are crafts-folk at all different levels of skill who can use knitting needles. I just flat out didn't want to force too much of a straight jacket on picking up an atypical skill. I think a lot of players would balk at that.
Finally, the needles are way slower at summoning than the spell itself. Again, there's plenty of time to wonder what the dark blanket coming from between the succubi's knitting needles portends. Using summon monster VI would be way faster than knitting shadows from scratch, just not as interesting. :)
I've never found x/day uses on an item particularly "realistic" and that's usually done simply for game balance, rather than for any fantastical reason. On a living being that can grow weary from casting, sure. But on an item? Not really my personal preference.
The sanctuary effect is a minor luxury, not meant to be of great power or a major part of the main theme of the item. It's a nicety. If there's a rule that says every spell in a magic item's effect must be listed in it's construction I'm not aware of it? Otherwise do I also need to add levitate or fly for the dancing effect? Do I also list gate in the construction requirements? Does nothing come from the spirit of the maker? When writing the item I had in mind for the sanctuary effect to have been caused by the vague desire of it's maker not to be uninterrupted while knitting. Also, note that I did set the sanctuary spell's caster level at 14th, so while it's low level, it's also not easily dispelled by low level casters.
I'll mention too, in case it comes up, that the gate that supplies the yarn is also quite interruptable, in the same way a gate spell would be. Saying that the item creates a "Fine gate" in the first sentence is the indicator for that (as well as indicting that nothing larger than a strand of yarn is coming out of there either). As for the dancing effect, what are the rules for interrupting a dancing sword? Wouldn't a simple grapple stop the needles from continuing their task? Eight rounds can be a long time to defend a set of dancing needles in combat.
There's no formula for pricing magic items so I went with my gut and comparisons to like powered items. It's art, not science and no two people ever seem to agree. In closing, with regard to constriction and pricing, I just don't think making a cool or wicked magic item has to be all that scientific. I typically imagine an item, then make it fit the rules, rather than the other way around. :)
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These are really freaking cool. Great creativity, and the name and imagery are top notch. I love the later sentence "If a hag is sitting there on her porch knitting an overlong scarf and grinning at you after you just threatened to lop of her head, then something bad's going to happen."
One of my top five of the 32 selected items.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka AWizardInDallas
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These are really freaking cool. Great creativity, and the name and imagery are top notch. I love the later sentence "If a hag is sitting there on her porch knitting an overlong scarf and grinning at you after you just threatened to lop of her head, then something bad's going to happen."
One of my top five of the 32 selected items.
Thanks very much! I'm eagerly awaiting tomorrow's voting. I really hope you and everyone else digs my next creation too. :)
I don't deny that these have a lot of cool value to them as far as effect. I don't personally get an overwhelming sense of 'must use' from them, but that's mostly a personal taste thing; I have a difficult time trying to sell myself on the evil annis witch cackling at the party as she... knits their doom. Of course, I submitted a freakin' cymbal monkey, so I should be the last person to talk about incongruous use of items. Anyway, the design and description are all great, so you make it work.
I liked this better when it was an apocalypse item. Spend 95K on an item that allows me to pay a skill tax and get creatures I can get elsewhere faster, but for 3 less rounds at most? At least before my money went to taking over the world.